Other A Foldable iPhone will Flop

[Cape Dave]

I am not buying this POS until it is 2 inches square and opens up to a 40 inch OLED monitor with 2000 nits brightness and 240hz scrolling. Basically, I think the whole thing is dumber than a box of rocks. Wait, I made a mistake. I meant MicroLED screen

 

[surferfb]

• iPod Classic: more storage space in relation to the first generation iPhone does not mean that defines a better product. The first iPhone brought an entirely new iPod experience, with a larger and at the time high resolution screen, multi-touch to interact with album art and also a responsive interface for portrait or landscape mode, a new music app, etc. As far as I know, the iPod Classic also never even had a speaker. Also, with the first generation iPhone, you no longer needed to be on a Mac with iTunes to buy music and then sync that to your device: you could buy music directly from the iPhone over Wifi and it would sync back to iTunes. Also, music would fade out when a call came in, and fade back in after the call was over... etc.
• MMS/internet communications device: Just because the iPhone began with limitations in text messaging doesn't mean it wasn't a better internet communications device. MMS on the iPhone came in 2009. The first iPhone had the capability. The first iPhone had rich HTML Email and e.g., pictures could be sent by Email. Pictures were also inline in the Email message; phone numbers were also parsed in Email and could be called directly. And the first iPhone had the first fully usable HTML browser on a phone where others were using WAP, etc. Nothing came close to the browsing experience and double tap and pinching and zooming were in full effect to navigate webpages. Also, most other phones at the time had no wifi. The first iPhone would automatically switch from its data connection to a wifi connection when able to. Regardless of whether it was using the latest standard or not, it had fully functioning wifi unlike many other phones. No flash was good because it would drain batteries. Most phones had limited capability to download and save things.
• Fast forward to today: here we are, and phones have as much as 1 TB or more of space, 6.9" screens, etc. Foldable smartphones have to compete with this.
• Downsides to a foldable: plastic screen that degrades optics and is subject to more scratches; demonstrated screen fatigue over time at the fold point; thicker and heavier than what is currently possible with a non-foldable smartphone... and with a seam when folded; a squared off aspect ratio which is suboptimal for many reasons (e.g., watching videos and wasted space); seams on the back when unfolded; less compute power capability than dedicated tablets because of thermal limitations; battery size limitations vs. tablets given the complexity of the design; not being able to incorporate an all in one case with built-in keyboard because it won't fit the phone when folded; limitations on the unfolded screen size because a more standard, folded smartphone screen size and aspect ratio is required and serves as the starting point for such a device: a trifold will just exacerbate certain compromises; complex hinges required that can malfunction or require servicing; water resistance tradeoffs (foldables lag behind non-foldables in waterproofing); software challenges because it's trying to be two different categories of device (e.g., it can't just run iPadOS)...

And everything also leads to use cases... which has been discussed at length about the utility of a smartphone vs. a tablet.

Let's go over your "downsides" as they apply to me. Assume I am in a situation where: 1) I do not have my iPad or Mac with me and 2) need to review a Word Doc or Excel sheet or PDF or whatever ASAP.

• Interior screen is plastic and scratches easily? Do not care. In this situation I'd rather be looking at a bigger plastic screen than a smaller glass screen.
• There is a crease? Maybe this matters; depends on how noticeable it is. I suspect Apple won't release one that doesn't meet my standards, but if they did then that would obviously be a dealbreaker.
• It's thicker or heavier? Maybe this matters; depends on how much thicker and how much heavier. Again, I suspect Apple won't release something that doesn't meet my standards (until a week ago I'd been carrying a Pro Max for years), but if they did then that would be a dealbreaker.
• Seam on back when unfolded? Honestly couldn't care less.
• Less compute power? Don't care. Don't need huge compute power for my needs.
• No built-in keyboard? What is this, 2005? I'm fine with a software keyboard.
• Not as Waterproof? Can it handle me getting caught a rainstorm? Then fine by me.
• Software challenges? I don't understand why you keep saying "it can't just run iPadOS." I'm sure it can. And even if it couldn't, Apple is perfectly capable of designing software that works in "iOS mode" when using the front screen and "iPadOS mode" when using the interior screen.

Would a dedicated tablet be better than a foldable if I were sitting at a desk? Absolutely. (But I'd also argue if I am sitting at a desk, a tablet is compromised compared to a laptop for many of the same reasons you mention the foldable is compromised, and a laptop is compromised compared to a desktop). If I am at my desk, I am not going to be working from my phone.

But if I didn't bring my Mac/iPad with me because I'm going to a networking reception that starts at 6pm and I don't want to deal with carrying a briefcase or messenger bag, and then my boss sends me an urgent email "I know you're at the event, but can you review these five pages ASAP because our partner had some last-minute edits" or "here's the 10-page teaming agreement, can you scan for any red flags before I sign", then I'd like the biggest screen I can have to do that. Because getting it done quickly while I'm at the event or in a cab is preferable than coming home and telling my wife "sorry, I know I missed the kid's dinner and bedtime, but I have to go do another 30-45 minutes of work before we can catch up."

Does this mean I am definitely going to get the fold? No. Maybe Apple prices it too high, maybe it's too thick, maybe I switch jobs and I'm not going places without a bigger device frequently. If the latter happens, then maybe I start to care about some of your compromises more than I do now.

I understand not everyone has my use case, which I am the first to admit is pretty niche. But it's not the only one. There are plenty of road warriors who might decide "this way I don't have to take my laptop out on the tray table just to respond to a few emails" or project managers at a construction site who would rather not lug an iPad with them climbing up ladders but would like a larger screen to look at blueprints on, or any number of other reasons a professional might need more screen space at a time/place they just have their phone. There are also plenty of people who are going to want the biggest screen they can possibly get in the smallest form factor they can possibly get just because, or who like to get "cool" tech from Apple, and are going to be intrigued by new factor, or think having the newest, most expensive iPhone is a status symbol.

Do I think the fold will outsell other iPhone models? No, of course not. But again, every single person upgrading from a $1100 iPhone Pro to a $2000 iPhone fold just in effect went from buying an iPhone Pro to buying a iPhone Pro + a base iPhone when looking at it from the perspective of Apple's revenue. So Apple even selling an iPhone mini percentage of folds will likely be enough to make it worth it for Apple. I suspect it is a very profitable niche, which is why even if it doesn't sell 50 million a year it won't be a flop.

 

[blairh]

Why do they want a larger display that fits in their pocket?

Let me break this down more.

Why does someone want a car that turns into a plane?

Why does someone want a lawnmower with wings?

Why does someone want a laptop that turns into a tablet?

Why does someone want a desktop computer that folds up into a portable laptop?

Why does someone want a 50” TV that rolls into a small tube case?

Etc.

The point is, which I keep repeating: 1. These convertible devices compromise their primary and secondary function where they are worse than their dedicated versions. 2. People use a tool or a device that is purpose built and purpose designed for that purpose.

Some discussion. People do not use a 50” screen and mouse standing in line at Costco because that use case makes no sense. They use a smartphone. They may wish they would have that for what they are doing at that time (e.g., daytrading), but they need a portable device like a smartphone that has tailored interfaces and interactions for that small screen and form factor and can be used with one hand.

A tablet also doesn’t make as much sense in use cases calling for smartphone portability. There also seems to be this idea that there is such a critical demand for tablet use cases. There isn’t. Tablets peaked long ago and have always been a subset of the smartphone market.

Studies and market research shows that tablets have a narrow set of use cases for people, which has expanded a bit due to them becoming more capable for productivity. But they are more awkward to hold in the hands and less efficient to interact with because the screens are larger and require both hands to use.

If we take the use case of a person commuting for work… on a train… would they want to fold their phone out into a tablet? You may think they could be productive working on the train… What about a keyboard? That has to be a separate item for them to carry. And the tablet itself as I have repeated many times is compromised. And the tablet does have to compete with the smartphone. With the advent of larger screened smartphones, the use cases and value of a tablet got diminished. Many people don’t use or want a tablet.

The same can be said of convertible laptops. People use laptops for specific reasons. To make a convertible laptop, it compromises the laptop and tablet where it becomes worse at both of these dedicated devices.

The push for a larger display that folds into a pocket-sized device is really just the latest version of trying to make one tool do two jobs poorly: like a car that turns into a plane or a laptop that doubles as a tablet.

Dedicated devices succeed because they are purpose-built: smartphones are designed for mobility, one-handed use, and tailored interfaces, while tablets fill a narrow, secondary role that has already been diminished by larger smartphones. Forcing the two together doesn’t create a superior experience; it compromises both, leaving users with a device that is less effective than either of the dedicated versions it tries to replace.

You are so bizarrely against this device. I honestly find it baffling. The amount of replies and repeated words is just disturbing at this juncture.

The appeal of foldables is so obvious and yet you are just ranting repeatedly at this point.

It's going to be an awesome iPad mini in your pocket. A wide and short device that countless millions will embrace. I guess you won't.

 

[Lounge vibes 05]

a squared off aspect ratio which is suboptimal for many reasons (e.g., watching videos and wasted space);

You are just purposely avoiding that point because it goes against your argument.
The foldable iPhone, according to all rumors, will not have a square aspect ratio screen.
It will have a 7.76 inch display approximately 4:3, with a resolution of 2713 X 1920.
That is not square, that is very similar to the same aspect ratio the majority of iPads have used since 2010.
On the other hand, the outside display will be short and wide, enabling the more natural aspect ratio when unfolded. That screen is currently likely to be 5.49 inches diagonally with the resolution 2088 X 1422.
Unless something very dramatic in the rumors changes within the next 12 months, it’s very likely that it will be the outside screen with the weird aspect ratio and design, not the inside screen.
Either way, the square aspect ratio on the inside display is not a thing with Apple’s folding phone.
And these dimensions (5.5 inch outside screen, 7.76 inch inside screen) have pretty much been agreed on by all of the reputable sources. It’s one thing to say “fake leak” when it’s just one of them, but when it’s Kuo, The Information, Gurman and all of the supply chain sources arriving at the same screen sizes, it’s pretty clear that it’s real and it’s going to happen.
Display leaks, those are about the easiest. These guys knew and leaked the exact size and resolution of the 12 Mini in April 2019, 18 months before the phone even launched.

 

[Pbwallstreet]

You are just purposely avoiding that point because it goes against your argument.
The foldable iPhone, according to all rumors, will not have a square aspect ratio screen.
It will have a 7.76 inch display approximately 4:3, with a resolution of 2713 X 1920.
That is not square, that is very similar to the same aspect ratio the majority of iPads have used since 2010.
On the other hand, the outside display will be short and wide, enabling the more natural aspect ratio when unfolded. That screen is currently likely to be 5.49 inches diagonally with the resolution 2088 X 1422.
Unless something very dramatic in the rumors changes within the next 12 months, it’s very likely that it will be the outside screen with the weird aspect ratio and design, not the inside screen.
Either way, the square aspect ratio on the inside display is not a thing with Apple’s folding phone.
And these dimensions (5.5 inch outside screen, 7.76 inch inside screen) have pretty much been agreed on by all of the reputable sources. It’s one thing to say “fake leak” when it’s just one of them, but when it’s Kuo, The Information, Gurman and all of the supply chain sources arriving at the same screen sizes, it’s pretty clear that it’s real and it’s going to happen.
Display leaks, those are about the easiest. These guys knew and leaked the exact size and resolution of the 12 Mini in April 2019, 18 months before the phone even launched.

Let's assume the leaks are correct... so the ‘normal phone mode’ is the weird, short, stubby one. Nothing screams mainstream adoption like paying extra to make your everyday phone worse and make your tablet worse. The tablet unfolded on the leaked numbers would be a bit wider than an iPad Mini and be around 7.76" screen size diagonally vs. 8.3" for the iPad Mini... meaning the folded out tablet screen is smaller than a Mini (~8.3% smaller).

Nobody knows whether Apple will release a foldable or what the final specs will be. But my reasoning has been that their smartphone would follow current iPhone aspect ratios and screen sizes (e.g., 6.1" for the iPhone 16 or 6.3" for the iPhone 17). iOS and Apps are designed and optimized for these and the market has large screened smartphones including on foldables as competition. The smartphone is a significant use case.

This is the point where things get messy, cramming two devices into one: it's a hot mess whack a mole of compromises for both device categories.

 

[Pbwallstreet]

You are so bizarrely against this device. I honestly find it baffling. The amount of replies and repeated words is just disturbing at this juncture.

The appeal of foldables is so obvious and yet you are just ranting repeatedly at this point.

It's going to be an awesome iPad mini in your pocket. A wide and short device that countless millions will embrace. I guess you won't.

I wonder what it would be like to work with you. Having a discussion and if someone doesn't agree with you... or if someone isn't convinced by what you are communicating... you resort to some subjective judgement against the person. I am not "bizarrely against this device." Nobody has brought forth a coherent retort to my criticisms of such a potential device.

Of course time can prove me incorrect, and that's fine if it does. But imagine for a moment... you're in the industry... and you're working on software and hardware projects and you are part of the decision-making on what the business you are working in is going to spend money and time on. And you make the decision and even vehemently advocate for designing and building and launching a foldable smartphone. That is your decision. And it's going to be costly development. And imagine if it failed in the market. It didn't reach your sales targets or it just barely did but not much after that, etc. Imagine having adverse effects on your employment there or your career or the business going out of business.

How do you make your decision to move forward with such a project? What is your business case? Answering the why is critical, not just because you think you personally want it, but that there are sustained and durable use cases to drive needs and sustained adoption and use. That there is clear evidence that it has enough value to people instead of being adopted by early adopters, then sitting in a drawer collecting dust, then fading away.

 

[iBug2]

A foldable iPhone will flop. Just like the Apple Vision Pro (AVP), it will be a niche product with limited appeal — not the next big thing. Yes, I know there will be a small brigade of you ready to jump in and tell me they want one, and therefore everyone must want one too. But personal desire doesn’t equal market demand.

When Apple announced the AVP, I made the case here on the forums that it would fail to gain general consumer interest. Not because it’s not impressive tech — it is. But because it lacks broad utility and solves no pressing problem for most people. The same logic applies to a foldable iPhone. Here’s why.

The main reasons I listed why the Apple Vision Pro would be a niche product right after it was announced:

• It’s an awkward form factor — wearing ski goggles on your face is not how most people want to interact with the world.
• It simulates reality poorly. The highest-fidelity version of reality is… reality.
• It doesn’t solve a widespread problem, and instead creates new ones: isolation, weight, cost, battery life, etc.
• It competes with — but doesn’t outperform — existing Apple devices like iPads, iPhones, and Macs.
• In short, it has no “reason to live” as a mainstream product other than niche applications.

Now apply the same logic to a foldable iPhone:

• Compromised form factor: it’s essentially two phones sandwiched together. Thicker. Heavier. Awkward. No matter how sleek Apple tries to make it, the ergonomics will suffer.
• Display trade-offs: to fold, the screen needs to be plastic — not glass and optics will be degraded. That means lower durability, more scratches, and likely a visible crease, even if faint.
• No clear productivity gain: it won’t be large enough to replace an iPad Pro for serious work or multitasking. It’s not going to make spreadsheets, document editing, or design work better.
• It solves nothing: nobody is asking for this. It doesn’t address a real consumer painpoint. It adds complexity to a form factor that’s already perfected: the slab phone.
• It’s outclassed by existing devices: iPhones are great at being phones. iPads are great at being tablets. Laptops are great at being computers. A foldable iPhone is a master of none.

Yes, I know some of you will say: “But I want one!”

Sure. And that’s fine. Enthusiasts like us often love cutting-edge technology. But if you look at the reasons above, this device has niche appeal at best. It will not capture mainstream consumer demand. Just like AVP, it’ll be a showcase product — a status symbol, a curiosity — not a mainstream device.

I suspect Apple is putting out controlled leaks to throw off the competition and has no intention of releasing a foldable iPhone. If they actually do release such a device, they will have lost the plot.

AVP did not flop. Apple knew pretty well it would sell as much as it did sell. AVP is just the first device in a new line of personal computers. It'll be iterated many times until it becomes useful for all of us to dump our screens and start using that but eventually we all will be using those. Come on, giant screen estate right in front of your eyes? And at some point it'll get to insane amounts of pixel density, something that won't make sense for external monitors.

 

[kamikazeeMC]

Imagine living in a world where no one pushed boundaries, where we get rehashes of things that were good yesterday so we could play it safe. Apple have the funds to try.

The AVP is a precursor to eventually fit into a pair of designer frame glasses.

 

[Pbwallstreet]

AVP did not flop. Apple knew pretty well it would sell as much as it did sell. AVP is just the first device in a new line of personal computers. It'll be iterated many times until it becomes useful for all of us to dump our screens and start using that but eventually we all will be using those. Come on, giant screen estate right in front of your eyes? And at some point it'll get to insane amounts of pixel density, something that won't make sense for external monitors.

Interesting that you know what Apple thinks internally.

While we’re at it, why don’t you advocate for a convertible MacBook?

 

[Pbwallstreet]

Imagine living in a world where no one pushed boundaries, where we get rehashes of things that were good yesterday so we could play it safe. Apple have the funds to try.

The AVP is a precursor to eventually fit into a pair of designer frame glasses.

Ok, so the frame glasses… not going to derail this thread, but I have posted about them before and also predict them flopping.

 

[Innovati0n]

I never understood the appeal of having a crease in the middle of your phone and yes its always there and is visible.