A light rant on the Mini situation

[spiderman0616]

I bought a mini 4 yesterday at Best Buy. I bought it for the car so it's not a big deal to me. I agree that Apple tries to force an *upgrade* to a larger device. Too bad Apple can't innovate anymore.

I often think of how I looked forward to a new purchase in the past. I miss Steve.

I'm sorry, but this has nothing to do with "Steve". One of the biggest reasons for the slowdown of iPad sales over the last several quarters is that the iPad mini, once a big seller when it was first released, has been sharply declining in sales due to the iPhone 7 Plus becoming more and more popular. Yes, I know the two devices are nowhere near the same size, but that's the market perception now. Even Tim Cook more or less admitted this in interviews following the launch of the first 12.9" iPad Pro.

Apple doesn't mind this--they have never been afraid to cannibalize their own products with other new products. This is what has happened with the mini. The bad side effect is that it has resulted in making the overall line look bad in the media. From most of the analysis I've read, the larger sized iPads have continued to grow slightly or remain stable in most quarters, but the downward trend on the mini has erased those figures completely. The writing is on the wall: people still want iPads, but what they don't want is an iPad mini. There's a vocal minority that still loves them (me included). And a lot of people will say "But parents buy them on the cheap for their kids during sales and on holidays!" Well, those sales are going to be replaced by the $329 9.7" iPad at some point. Those purchases are all about price, not form factor.

This would have been the situation with or without Steve. Apple is not trying to "force" anyone to upgrade to a larger size. They're trying to cut dead wood out of the product line. No company in its right mind is going to keep a product just for the sake of keeping it. If the analysis is wrong, and people are still buying minis in droves, we'll know because there will be an iPad mini 5. If there is not an iPad mini 5 and the mini 4 is kept on life support like the Macbook Air, we'll know that its days are definitely numbered.

This is all business 101 stuff--it has nothing to do with being innovative or not. This is like saying "I don't like the new Disney movie. I want more Mickey Mouse. I miss Walt." Come on.

 

[exterminator]

This is where I have to disagree. I'm Not being dismissive of your opinions and I can understand that Apple can't meet everyone's expectations with certain pieces of hardware being updated or more specifically, the iPad mini. But for those who say Apple "Lost its touch" or "Can't innovate" truly don't understand what Innovation means. Apple makes the best products on the market and some of the best user experiences with iOS, but if Apple's goals don't align with someone else's, that means they can't "Innovate?"

So what other electronic manufactures are "Innovating" in the tablet market that can supersede Apple? Plus, we can't rule out the iPad mini is ultimately not going to be updated in the future, it's just stagnant at the moment.

The trouble with this is that as opposed to other manufacturers, Apple's prices keep on going up and what you get for what you pay for is going exactly in the other direction.

Not long ago I used to pay 450 Euro, to buy the current iPad with the Current processor. Nowadays, if i want the *current* processor, the A10. I have to pay 739 Euro. If i pay the same price as a couple of years ago. I get a processor that debuted in November 2015. Times change and all, but do I really have to pay almost 300 euros more than I did a couple of years ago? Just to get today's technology?

 

[Zaft]

So, I picked up a Mini 4 yesterday as part of the Best Buy sale to replace a Mini 2. The Mini 2 is on iOS9 and is in perfect condition, but as you would imagine it's getting a little pokey with certain websites and tasks. The Mini 4 seems like a pretty straightforward swap that, after selling the Mini 2, will probably be less than $200 to me. It's a very low-cost move. For reference, I also own an iPhone 6S.

After a few hours of work it's now set up to my liking and I've been using it normally. Is it better?.....yeah, I guess. It's slightly faster for certain things and doesn't refresh pages/programs as often when switching around. Touch ID is nice to have, but going back to the 1st generation of this technology is a letdown. The color accuracy of the screen is better, but it didn't really bother me on the Mini 2. It's slightly lighter, again, a non-issue for me.

In reality, it feels like 3 year old tech, which it is. It's less slow...but still kind of slow. It lags in spots that a brand new device just shouldn't, in my opinion. The A8 really isn't much faster and feels like it will struggle with iOS11. The current jump from the Mini 2 is, in my opinion, quite underwhelming.

This bothers me most because: A) I've used my wife's Air 2 extensively and vastly prefer the Mini size, and B) Despite how cheap this upgrade is, I am willing and able to pay significantly more to get a better product in this size. Apple is attempting to force a changeover to the 9.7" size and I'm not interested. With money as no object, I am using the fastest and best iPad Mini available and it's still kind of slow.

I don't play graphic-intensive games, I don't use an iPad for productivity, and I wouldn't choose to multitask on this small screen. All I'm asking for is a handheld couch web browser with up-to-date specs in 2017. Something that doesn't disappoint compared to a nearly 2 year old iPhone. What the Mini 2 was when it came out, basically. Is this so difficult?

I'm aware that I'm far from the first person on this forum to rant about this topic. Experiencing this gap in the market first-hand, even after reading about it extensively, is still frustrating. It's an absolute shame to see a well-loved product line disappear for no apparent reason. There's a good chance the Mini 4 goes back because I'm not sure it's even worth the sub-$200 cost to switch.

Apple, if you're reading this, please update your product so you can take (and keep) more of my money. Rant over.

The Mini 4 is missing the 3rd core that the Air 2 has. For that reason its going to lag in spots where the Air 2 will not.

Its disappointing and im not sure why apple excluded that extra core because it makes a big difference.

 

[justinTlME]

This is what i initially wanted prior to buying my 10.5.

After using the 10.5, i can see why they did not do it.

Using the pencil, even the 10.5 is borderline for being a little cramped, IMHO.

As per the above poster, the smart keyboard also wouldn't be possible in the size it is, with a mini.

I suspect that the larger iPhone plus cannibalised the mini to the extent that Apple didn't see the point in refreshing it.
[doublepost=1500874159][/doublepost]

The next round of innovation is going to be in AR.

The phone doesn't have the battery capacity or CPU/GPU power to handle this yet (IMHO, apple could prove me wrong but in any case an iPad has stronger hardware and bigger battery so would be preferable anyway i believe). A macbook or desktop isn't portable enough.

I suspect Apple is going to release a wireless headset/glasses setup that can work from the iPad in your backpack to do decent AR. Even the iPad is going to become less of an iPad in the future and is going to evolve into something else. It's just a matter of time.

Then the question will be, will AR stick. We already saw 3D come and pass, and personally the next fad to hit its demise will be VR IMO. The PSVR was such a great device early on, but it has stymied with very little game support etc. Sometimes tech is great, but it fails to catch on.

Apple is usually very good at predicting these fads, and only pushing ones that are proven to succeed. Or they simply push it until they make us believe we all want or need it. Lol. Who know what is gonna happen.

 

[PBMB]

It's less slow...but still kind of slow. It lags in spots that a brand new device just shouldn't, in my opinion. The A8 really isn't much faster and feels like it will struggle with iOS11.

I don't know which kind of lag you talk about. Mine runs fine under iOS 10.

 

[rui no onna]

Using the pencil, even the 10.5 is borderline for being a little cramped, IMHO.

Maybe it's just that I'm used to writing on 3" x 3" Post-It notes and 4" x 6" notepads but I don't really view the mini's size as a problem for use with Apple Pencil.

 

[SusanK]

This is where I have to disagree. I'm Not being dismissive of your opinions and I can understand that Apple can't meet everyone's expectations with certain pieces of hardware being updated or more specifically, the iPad mini. But for those who say Apple "Lost its touch" or "Can't innovate" truly don't understand what Innovation means. Apple makes the best products on the market and some of the best user experiences with iOS, but if Apple's goals don't align with someone else's, that means they can't "Innovate?"

So what other electronic manufactures are "Innovating" in the tablet market that can supersede Apple? Plus, we can't rule out the iPad mini is ultimately not going to be updated in the future, it's just stagnant at the moment.

I was referring to lack of innovation at Apple since Steve died. The comment was not specific to tablets. In the last six years they have come up with a dud of a watch and watchbands. This after much silly talk about a pipeline.

Firing Forstall was just plain stupid and bullheaded. The software is bloated. Annoying items are placed in our faces. I went to MicroCenter yesterday and asked an employee how to get the things that appear on the iPad screen gone. Dumb stuff.

Had I gone to Apple they would have tried to convince me that i like a lot of nonsense in my way and tried to hard sell me a phone, of course.

Apple is a one trick pony with iPhone.

I respect your opinion but disagree.
[doublepost=1500906563][/doublepost]

I'm sorry, but this has nothing to do with "Steve". One of the biggest reasons for the slowdown of iPad sales over the last several quarters is that the iPad mini, once a big seller when it was first released, has been sharply declining in sales due to the iPhone 7 Plus becoming more and more popular. Yes, I know the two devices are nowhere near the same size, but that's the market perception now. Even Tim Cook more or less admitted this in interviews following the launch of the first 12.9" iPad Pro.

Apple doesn't mind this--they have never been afraid to cannibalize their own products with other new products. This is what has happened with the mini. The bad side effect is that it has resulted in making the overall line look bad in the media. From most of the analysis I've read, the larger sized iPads have continued to grow slightly or remain stable in most quarters, but the downward trend on the mini has erased those figures completely. The writing is on the wall: people still want iPads, but what they don't want is an iPad mini. There's a vocal minority that still loves them (me included). And a lot of people will say "But parents buy them on the cheap for their kids during sales and on holidays!" Well, those sales are going to be replaced by the $329 9.7" iPad at some point. Those purchases are all about price, not form factor.

This would have been the situation with or without Steve. Apple is not trying to "force" anyone to upgrade to a larger size. They're trying to cut dead wood out of the product line. No company in its right mind is going to keep a product just for the sake of keeping it. If the analysis is wrong, and people are still buying minis in droves, we'll know because there will be an iPad mini 5. If there is not an iPad mini 5 and the mini 4 is kept on life support like the Macbook Air, we'll know that its days are definitely numbered.

This is all business 101 stuff--it has nothing to do with being innovative or not. This is like saying "I don't like the new Disney movie. I want more Mickey Mouse. I miss Walt." Come on.

My can't innovate comment was not specific to iPad. The statement was general of Apple. Since Steve's death Apple has come up with a dud of a watch and watchbands. Different size iPads are just different sizes. No innovation there.

 

[dk001]

I'm sorry, but this has nothing to do with "Steve". One of the biggest reasons for the slowdown of iPad sales over the last several quarters is that the iPad mini, once a big seller when it was first released, has been sharply declining in sales due to the iPhone 7 Plus becoming more and more popular. Yes, I know the two devices are nowhere near the same size, but that's the market perception now. Even Tim Cook more or less admitted this in interviews following the launch of the first 12.9" iPad Pro.

Apple doesn't mind this--they have never been afraid to cannibalize their own products with other new products. This is what has happened with the mini. The bad side effect is that it has resulted in making the overall line look bad in the media. From most of the analysis I've read, the larger sized iPads have continued to grow slightly or remain stable in most quarters, but the downward trend on the mini has erased those figures completely. The writing is on the wall: people still want iPads, but what they don't want is an iPad mini. There's a vocal minority that still loves them (me included). And a lot of people will say "But parents buy them on the cheap for their kids during sales and on holidays!" Well, those sales are going to be replaced by the $329 9.7" iPad at some point. Those purchases are all about price, not form factor.

This would have been the situation with or without Steve. Apple is not trying to "force" anyone to upgrade to a larger size. They're trying to cut dead wood out of the product line. No company in its right mind is going to keep a product just for the sake of keeping it. If the analysis is wrong, and people are still buying minis in droves, we'll know because there will be an iPad mini 5. If there is not an iPad mini 5 and the mini 4 is kept on life support like the Macbook Air, we'll know that its days are definitely numbered.

This is all business 101 stuff--it has nothing to do with being innovative or not. This is like saying "I don't like the new Disney movie. I want more Mickey Mouse. I miss Walt." Come on.

Apple has proven perception can be driven by advertising. When is the last time we saw decent iPad Mini advertising?
[doublepost=1500908266][/doublepost]On a side note ....
Went on vacation and took my 7+, Mini 4, Pro 12. The majority of us are iPhone users.
The Mini was the most used "leisure" device. It always seemed to be in someone's hands.

Needs an update. and advertising

 

[ACG12]

The mini 4 is a great device, minus the dated processor. I still don't understand why Apple couldn't have just given it the A9 treatment and called it the iPad Mini. That's all it really needed to keep it relevant.

 

[IJBrekke]

I don't know which kind of lag you talk about. Mine runs fine under iOS 10.

We all perceive the experience differently, of course. I regularly use my iPhone 6S, so the slight hesitations of the Mini 4 are more perceptible to me.

Very similar to if someone that daily-drives a Mini 4 tried to use a Mini 2, or went the other way and tried a new Pro model. We notice the changes.

 

[dk001]

We all perceive the experience differently, of course. I regularly use my iPhone 6S, so the slight hesitations of the Mini 4 are more perceptible to me.

Very similar to if someone that daily-drives a Mini 4 tried to use a Mini 2, or went the other way and tried a new Pro model. We notice the changes.

There has been more than a few times I mentally remark "wish this loaded as fast as my 7+"

 

[rui no onna]

We all perceive the experience differently, of course. I regularly use my iPhone 6S, so the slight hesitations of the Mini 4 are more perceptible to me.

Very similar to if someone that daily-drives a Mini 4 tried to use a Mini 2, or went the other way and tried a new Pro model. We notice the changes.

Interesting observation, while we do notice stuff that's faster, it's usually not such a big deal until one gets used to the faster speed.

Kinda like when switching from HDD to SSD for the first time. At first, most would notice that it's slightly faster but not significantly so. Then after several months using the SSD, when you use a computer with HDD, the lag becomes much more pronounced to the point where it might be unbearable.

 

[throAU]

Then the question will be, will AR stick. We already saw 3D come and pass, and personally the next fad to hit its demise will be VR IMO. The PSVR was such a great device early on, but it has stymied with very little game support etc. Sometimes tech is great, but it fails to catch on.

Apple is usually very good at predicting these fads, and only pushing ones that are proven to succeed. Or they simply push it until they make us believe we all want or need it. Lol. Who know what is gonna happen.

there are real world business use cases for AR. it will stick. go look at some of the stuff microsoft has helped people put together with the hololens. it's coming.

 

[IJBrekke]

Kinda like when switching from HDD to SSD for the first time. At first, most would notice that it's slightly faster but not significantly so. Then after several months using the SSD, when you use a computer with HDD, the lag becomes much more pronounced to the point where it might be unbearable.

This has been my experience verbatim. Unless it's a monumental leap forward I always think: "Huh, this is a little bit faster and smoother, nothing too crazy." But, after adjusting, trying to go backwards makes the deficiencies stand out much more.

What's interesting is that going back to my Mini 2 doesn't feel much different. It's slightly slower in spots, but for my usage patterns it's just not a big change. This doesn't mean the Mini 2 is fast, it means the Mini 4 isn't enough of a leap forward, in my opinion. I want the option to pay significantly more money and get A9+ levels of speed, but Apple has yet to offer that in this size.

I do wonder if the Mini 2 still running iOS9 makes a difference.

 

[throAU]

This has been my experience verbatim. Unless it's a monumental leap forward I always think: "Huh, this is a little bit faster and smoother, nothing too crazy." But, after adjusting, trying to go backwards makes the deficiencies stand out much more.

What's interesting is that going back to my Mini 2 doesn't feel much different. It's slightly slower in spots, but for my usage patterns it's just not a big change. This doesn't mean the Mini 2 is fast, it means the Mini 4 isn't enough of a leap forward, in my opinion. I want the option to pay significantly more money and get A9+ levels of speed, but Apple has yet to offer that in this size.

I do wonder if the Mini 2 still running iOS9 makes a difference.

the hardware in the mini 4 is quite old at this point. it's iphone 6 or 6s calibre at best?

 

[Zaft]

the hardware in the mini 4 is quite old at this point. it's iphone 6 or 6s calibre at best?

According to Geekbench its in between the 6 and 6S.

 

[joeblow7777]

the hardware in the mini 4 is quite old at this point. it's iphone 6 or 6s calibre at best?

According to Geekbench its in between the 6 and 6S.

It has a slightly overclocked A8 (the iPhone 6 processor) with 2GB of RAM (like the 6s). So yeah, it's basically between a 6 and 6s, or in iPad terms, between an Air 1 and Air 2, but closer to the Air 2 I believe.

Whether or not that's considered "old" is a matter of opinion and one's needs/expectations. In my experience it still runs the latest OS smoothly and without issue. I anticipate that it will continue to do so throughout the lifespan of iOS 11. Beyond that is anyone's guess, but as I've said before, I think that the hardware has gotten to the point where it should go longer than ever before software updates start to overwhelm it, but what level of performance is or isn't acceptable is subjective.

 

[Zaft]

It has a slightly overclocked A8 (the iPhone 6 processor) with 2GB of RAM (like the 6s). So yeah, it's basically between a 6 and 6s, or in iPad terms, between an Air 1 and Air 2, but closer to the Air 2 I believe.

Whether or not that's considered "old" is a matter of opinion and one's needs/expectations. In my experience it still runs the latest OS smoothly and without issue. I anticipate that it will continue to do so throughout the lifespan of iOS 11. Beyond that is anyone's guess, but as I've said before, I think that the hardware has gotten to the point where it should go longer than ever before software updates start to overwhelm it, but what level of performance is or isn't acceptable is subjective.

I have the Air 2 and when I compare it to the Mini 4 there are some differences. Its just some stutters here and there that are not present on the Air 2.

But overall performance is fine imo. Whats not fine is the price...

 

[joeblow7777]

I have the Air 2 and when I compare it to the Mini 4 there is some differences. Its just some stutters here and there that are not present on the Air 2.

But overall performance is fine imo. Whats not fine is the price...

I agree with you on that. It is still the least expensive 128 GB iPad, but they should have reduced the price by now. They're pretty much giving people no reason to buy a Mini 4 over the 2017 iPad unless you really have your heart set on the smaller form.

 

[onepoint]

Most people don't see a reason to have the mini as it's just slightly larger than their plus sized phones. I can see why it's dying

Aspect ratio is the biggest differentiator to me. Turn a phone landscape and try browsing Safari, then do the same with an iPad Mini.

I really appreciate that the Mini uses “full” 9.7 resolution simply downsized into a smaller package. I can hold the Mini in portrait mode and type like I would with a phone as well; trying to type anything lengthy on a 9.7+ iPad is a chore for me unless I have somewhere to set the thing down.

 

[joeblow7777]

Aspect ratio is the biggest differentiator to me. Turn a phone landscape and try browsing Safari, then do the same with an iPad Mini.

I really appreciate that the Mini uses “full” 9.7 resolution simply downsized into a smaller package. I can hold the Mini in portrait mode and type like I would with a phone as well; trying to type anything lengthy on a 9.7+ iPad is a chore for me unless I have somewhere to set the thing down.

Exactly. I can't use a phone, even a Plus model, for extensive web browsing. Often you still get the mobile version of sites. An iPad mini offers a much better browsing experience due to not just the larger screen but also having the same 4:3 aspect ratio as larger ipads. 16:9 or whatever the iPhone ratio is, is not ideal for viewing most desktop versions of websites.

 

[majkom]

I bought a mini 4 yesterday at Best Buy. I bought it for the car so it's not a big deal to me. I agree that Apple tries to force an *upgrade* to a larger device. Too bad Apple can't innovate anymore.

I often think of how I looked forward to a new purchase in the past. I miss Steve.

LOL - and ipad mini is Tim Cook´s baby... irony

 

[Lancetx]

LOL - and ipad mini is Tim Cook´s baby... irony

Exactly. Steve Jobs wouldn't have ever released an iPad mini to begin with as he felt that anything smaller than 9.7" was sub-optimal.

 

[Zaft]

Exactly. Steve Jobs wouldn't have ever released an iPad mini to begin with as he felt that anything smaller than 9.7" was sub-optimal.

He also thought the app store was a bad idea, but he eventually was swayed. There are emails proving that Steve was coming around to the idea of a 7 inch tablet as well.

 

[SusanK]

LOL - and ipad mini is Tim Cook´s baby... irony

Cook doesn't have a baby yet unless he claims the watch. Changing the size is just a size adjustment. I have no issue with the mini 4. BB had a good price for something to toss in the car.