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DHagan4755

macrumors 68020
Jul 18, 2002
2,252
6,123
Massachusetts
The tapered wedge of the MacBook Air has a certain sentimentality, doesn't it? That moment when Steve pulls it out of an interoffice envelope at Macworld in 2008 was classic. At the time it seemed impossibly thin.


I'll miss the wedge but I like the MacBook Air's new design. It's fresh. We'll see how it goes, but I bet it will be equally as popular.
 

fisherking

macrumors G4
Jul 16, 2010
11,249
5,559
ny somewhere
i have never liked the wedge design, imho it always looked cheesy. the new air looks slick, modern... mac-like.

wedges should be used for (apparently) golf, or cheese (see what i did there? that connects to my first sentence)... 🤪
 

Saturn007

macrumors 68000
Original poster
Jul 18, 2010
1,589
1,478
Just realized I made a critical error relying on Apple's reported front-edge height!

The critical factor is the height of the front edge when the case (lid, top) is open and ready for typing!

I just measured that for a 2015 13” MBA and a 2019 one — they are virtually identical at about 1/3” and 8.45mm.

It'll be interesting to see what the front edge heights of the M1 and M2 MBAs are with the lid open!

The real test will be when those who were uncomfortable with the MacBook Pros for typing report on their experience with the M2 MBA. Although we will still have selection effects as those who prefer the tapered front edge will have already chosen the M1 or will now pick it instead of the M2. Likewise, those for whom the MBPs were no issue will likely go M2 MBA and not be bothered with the typing experience.
 
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jdb8167

macrumors 601
Nov 17, 2008
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Just realized I made a critical error relying on Apple's reported front-edge height!
Where does Apple report on that? I only see the thickness at the front edge (0.16") which isn't particularly relevant for the actual height above the desk.
 

fisherking

macrumors G4
Jul 16, 2010
11,249
5,559
ny somewhere
Just realized I made a critical error relying on Apple's reported front-edge height!

The critical factor is the height of the front edge when the case (lid, top) is open and ready for typing!

I just measured that for a 2015 13” MBA and a 2019 one — they are virtually identical at about 1/3” and 8.45mm.

It'll be interesting to see what the front edge heights of the M1 and M2 MBAs are with the lid open!

The real test will be when those who were uncomfortable with the MacBook Pros for typing report on their experience with the M2 MBA. Although we will still have selection effects as those who prefer the tapered front edge will have already chosen the M1 or will now pick it instead of the M2. Likewise, those for whom the MBPs were no issue will likely go M2 MBA and not be bothered with the typing experience.
good ergonomics would mean tilting a keyboard back slightly, not forward. and millions of people use macbook pros (and other wedge-less laptops) and are fine typing on them.

anyone who wants to move forward with the tech will go for the M2 air over the M1 air (am not saying there's anything wrong with the M1 air). and unless apple decides differently at some point (not an unrealistic expectation), the wedge is done. as with all things, ppl adapt to change, and survive. and life goes on.
 

Saturn007

macrumors 68000
Original poster
Jul 18, 2010
1,589
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JDB, the height of the feet is one more reason that Apple's front edge height specs are misleading. However, from the photos, it looks like that wouldn't be a factor.

Intriguingly, on Apple's compare page, there's even a footnote caveat about its reported measurements!

“4. Size and weight vary by configuration and manufacturing process.”​
The best ergonomics for typing reside in good palm and wrist rests — one reason the original MBA series was so good. The palm rest was deep. All I’ve read about carpal tunnel syndrome emphasizes maintaining a straight position for the wrists, hands, and arms, not odd lifting.

But my concern, like that of many others, was the front edge of the MacBook Pros digging into palms or wrists and leaving indentations and creases. Quite uncomfortable.

No question that many people type on MacBook Pros without discomfort. But there's also no question that many found them uncomfortable. As I emphasize, “It all depends…”.
 
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jdb8167

macrumors 601
Nov 17, 2008
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good ergonomics would mean tilting a keyboard back slightly, not forward. and millions of people use macbook pros (and other wedge-less laptops) and are fine typing on them.

anyone who wants to move forward with the tech will go for the M2 air over the M1 air (am not saying there's anything wrong with the M1 air). and unless apple decides differently at some point (not an unrealistic expectation), the wedge is done. as with all things, ppl adapt to change, and survive. and life goes on.
Most people probably don't type in an ergonomic position. Instead of raising their wrists off the wrist-rest as you are supposed to, they rest the palm of their hands and their wrists on the wristrest. If that is too high then it can be uncomfortable. People should learn how to type correctly and then it won't be as much of an issue but that just isn't going to happen.
 

jdb8167

macrumors 601
Nov 17, 2008
4,854
4,594
JDB, the height of the feet is one more reason that Apple's front edge height specs are misleading. However, from the photos, it looks like that wouldn't be a factor.

Intriguingly, on Apple's compare page, there's even a footnote caveat about its reported measurements!
I don't see any height of wrist rest from the top of the desk specs on the compare page. I see the variable height range of the M1 MBA but that has nothing to do with how high it is off the desk. The front of the M1 MBA is raised up and the thickness of the front edge isn't relevant.

See this picture for more info:

macos__kp74urneu7u6_large_2x.png
 

applesith

macrumors 68030
Jun 11, 2007
2,809
1,622
Manhattan
i have always disliked the look of the air, and preferred the pro design (and mostly, my 12" macbook). so i for one am happy about the new airs, the first one in that line i am going to buy.

but like all things apple, we adapt (or keep what we have, or complain...).

The 12" MacBook is a wedge, a slimmer wedge than the Air. How can you dislike the Air so much but love the 12" MB?

Screen Shot 2022-07-13 at 11.56.32 AM.png
 

fisherking

macrumors G4
Jul 16, 2010
11,249
5,559
ny somewhere
Most people probably don't type in an ergonomic position. Instead of raising their wrists off the wrist-rest as you are supposed to, they rest the palm of their hands and their wrists on the wristrest. If that is too high then it can be uncomfortable. People should learn how to type correctly and then it won't be as much of an issue but that just isn't going to happen.
'most people'... do you have a source for that? and 'people should learn'... do you have a source for people not knowing how to type correctly? hmmm...
 

jdb8167

macrumors 601
Nov 17, 2008
4,854
4,594
'most people'... do you have a source for that? and 'people should learn'... do you have a source for people not knowing how to type correctly? hmmm...
There is a probably in there. Are you claiming that you think most computer users are trained touch typists? That would be surprising.
 

applesith

macrumors 68030
Jun 11, 2007
2,809
1,622
Manhattan
Early HK review is on YT. It looks like the M2 is lower towards the back but the palm rest area is slightly higher than the M1.
Screen Shot 2022-07-14 at 9.44.17 AM.png
 

applesith

macrumors 68030
Jun 11, 2007
2,809
1,622
Manhattan
what is 'slightly' in a real-world measurement?

anyway will check out that review (and any others that pop up over the nex week). but am sold on the M2 (and this photo helps) 👍
I don’t know- get out a tape measure if you can’t see the clear difference in the photo. Nitpicking for the sake of it.
 

fisherking

macrumors G4
Jul 16, 2010
11,249
5,559
ny somewhere
I don’t know- get out a tape measure if you can’t see the clear difference in the photo. Nitpicking for the sake of it.
i asked you to clarify your comment; 'slightly' versus an actual measurement. clarification, not nitpicking.

having just watched a few videos on youtube, am happy to go with the M2 air, for a bunch of reasons... including the fact that that height difference is negligable (an admittedly similarly-non technical term).
 

applesith

macrumors 68030
Jun 11, 2007
2,809
1,622
Manhattan
i asked you to clarify your comment; 'slightly' versus an actual measurement. clarification, not nitpicking.

having just watched a few videos on youtube, am happy to go with the M2 air, for a bunch of reasons... including the fact that that height difference is negligable (an admittedly similarly-non technical term).

How can I possibly measure the difference from someone's video? I pointed out where there are CLEARLY height differences in the screenshot. You are nitpicking the fact I did not measure the difference from a video and pointed out there is a CLEAR visual difference in height.

You cannot even claim the difference is negligible because you have not measured it either based on your convoluted thought process.
 

fisherking

macrumors G4
Jul 16, 2010
11,249
5,559
ny somewhere
How can I possibly measure the difference from someone's video? I pointed out where there are CLEARLY height differences in the screenshot. You are nitpicking the fact I did not measure the difference from a video and pointed out there is a CLEAR visual difference in height.

You cannot even claim the difference is negligible because you have not measured it either based on your convoluted thought process.
i've seen the same pictures as you, and i agree. it is 'slightly' larger, or, in other words, a 'negligible' difference. the youtube reviews (in words, and in comparision images) confirms this. let's move on...
 

Saturn007

macrumors 68000
Original poster
Jul 18, 2010
1,589
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JDB, I'm agreeing with you! The point being that Apple's specs are for a *closed* laptop and ignore the height of the feet. They do not tell us how high the keyboard and palm rest are, nor do they tell us how thick the front of the laptop is with it open and ready for typing.

The reason that the thickness of the front matters (when the laptop is open) is because it's a proxy for the height and the likelihood of the edge digging into one's palms. I should have, however, referred to the "front side" rather than "edge". Obviously, the edge or line at the top is the same across all laptops (almost like the old geometry statement that a line has no thickness). Although, a curved front would have no edge! Another critical factor is the depth of the palm rest.

I'm typing this right now on a 13" 2015 MBA and the front side of the laptop, i.e., where it tapers off, is vanishingly small and close to the table top. In contrast, the MacBook Pros of this past decade had much thicker front sides, and were higher off the table, meaning that its edge was more likely to dig into many people's palms or wrists.

In any case, let's see what user reports tell us, especially from those
with larger hands who found the MBPs uncomfortable and the MBAs (classic and M1) comfortable. However, the selection bias I mentioned before will remain an issue, so this will almost assuredly be a case where people will need to try it out for themselves!

As I mentioned earlier in the thread, I've discovered that I'm typically typing with the laptop in my lap, so that the height of the front side (and edge!) probably doesn't matter any more.

Now, about that notch... 😎
 
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