A10 fusion, do we give Apple enough credit?

[mtcowdog]

A10 fusion looks like a beast. Maybe Apple is on a design holiday. But they are clearly on a mobile cpu epic adventure. We'll have to wait for the Anandtech's of the world to give us the gory details, but the A10 fusion looks to be the ultimate mobile processor available today. Do we give Apple the credit deserve here? I don't see it out there. As a fan of Apple for many decades, this is a new Apple. Under the hood, they kill it.

Now, take advantage of that power and lead in tangible ways ... that's fair game too. Are they?

 

[TheRealAlex]

A10 fusion looks like a beast. Maybe Apple is on a design holiday. But they are clearly on a mobile cpu epic adventure. We'll have to wait for the Anandtech's of the world to give us the gory details, but the A10 fusion looks to be the ultimate mobile processor available today. Do we give Apple the credit deserve here? I don't see it out there. As a fan of Apple for many decades, this is a new Apple. Under the hood, they kill it.

Now, take advantage of that power and lead in tangible ways ... that's fair game too. Are they?

Its an A9X with 2 Slower Cores there was Really No Innovation here, thats it. Problem is due to the iPhones tiny space heat and small battery it has to "throttle" to keep from Over heating so real world performance will be slower than an A9X in the 9.7 and 12.9 iPad Pro

Further people will hate the Sluggishness of Email and Texting on the Slow speed cores and Apple will have to Give an Option Forcing Main 2 Core performance at the Risk of Battery life.

And No Word if All 4 Cores Can Work Together like SnapDragon or Exynos Apples A10 sounds like its 2 Normal Cores and 2 Slow Cores never all 4.

Look for the A11 or A11X to Really show new Features

 

[acarney]

Its an A9X with 2 Slower Cores there was Really No Innovation here, thats it. Problem is due to the iPhones tiny space heat and small battery it has to "throttle" to keep from Over heating so real world performance will be slower than an A9X in the 9.7 and 12.9 iPad Pro

Further people will hate the Sluggishness of Email and Texting on the Slow speed cores and Apple will have to Give an Option Forcing Main 2 Core performance at the Risk of Battery life.

And No Word if All 4 Cores Can Work Together like SnapDragon or Exynos Apples A10 sounds like its 2 Normal Cores and 2 Slow Cores never all 4.

Look for the A11 or A11X to Really show new Features

Wow, really? I get the idea that the Main cores will be a bit faster, like usual, and should make things feel snappy again like everyone loves but the two low power cores will handle most "idle" tasks. Think of all the times the phone is in your pocket but still talking to cell towers and getting a text message and email and etc. I figure it'll run all the baseband and notification services. Maybe drop down to those cores after a web page is rendered and in memory and just use them to facilitate scrolling. I suspect these low power cores will be a standard for at least a few generations to come and they'll just get more useful each time.

 

[techiebug]

Its an A9X with 2 Slower Cores there was Really No Innovation here, thats it. Problem is due to the iPhones tiny space heat and small battery it has to "throttle" to keep from Over heating so real world performance will be slower than an A9X in the 9.7 and 12.9 iPad Pro

Further people will hate the Sluggishness of Email and Texting on the Slow speed cores and Apple will have to Give an Option Forcing Main 2 Core performance at the Risk of Battery life.

And No Word if All 4 Cores Can Work Together like SnapDragon or Exynos Apples A10 sounds like its 2 Normal Cores and 2 Slow Cores never all 4.

Look for the A11 or A11X to Really show new Features

You speak like you already use the phone. Apple know best.

 

[Gathomblipoob]

Its an A9X with 2 Slower Cores there was Really No Innovation here, thats it. Problem is due to the iPhones tiny space heat and small battery it has to "throttle" to keep from Over heating so real world performance will be slower than an A9X in the 9.7 and 12.9 iPad Pro

Further people will hate the Sluggishness of Email and Texting on the Slow speed cores and Apple will have to Give an Option Forcing Main 2 Core performance at the Risk of Battery life.

And No Word if All 4 Cores Can Work Together like SnapDragon or Exynos Apples A10 sounds like its 2 Normal Cores and 2 Slow Cores never all 4.

Look for the A11 or A11X to Really show new Features

Citation?

 

[janeauburn]

Under the hood, they kill it.

Above the hood, not so much.

Agree, though, that a processor upgrade is always welcome. The trouble is the woeful software developers start developing to the new speed, and pretty soon your perfectly usable older iPhone is now effectively rubbish.

 

[lordofthereef]

I mentioned this in another thread. It does look incredible on paper. But realistically I'm just not sure that is what we need. Sure if you have a phone a couple of years old you'll notice a difference. Coming from a 6s plus that's been on iOS 10 for over a month now I just don't see myself noticing a difference I. Performance warranting purchasing a new phone.

I feel we've reached a pint with mobile processors that we aren't seeing user. Provable improvements even if the hardware is technically capable for much more.

If I may use the automobile reference, I don't need a Ferrari for my daily commute going bumper to bumper. It's not going to benefit me in any way other than the looks I might get.

 

[mtcowdog]

I mentioned this in another thread. It does look incredible on paper. But realistically I'm just not sure that is what we need. Sure if you have a phone a couple of years old you'll notice a difference. Coming from a 6s plus that's been on iOS 10 for over a month now I just don't see myself noticing a difference I. Performance warranting purchasing a new phone.

I feel we've reached a pint with mobile processors that we aren't seeing user. Provable improvements even if the hardware is technically capable for much more.

If I may use the automobile reference, I don't need a Ferrari for my daily commute going bumper to bumper. It's not going to benefit me in any way other than the looks I might get.

This is the second part of my question. I don't know the answer. Horsepower is good. Using is it for meaningful outcomes to a user is way, way better. When I switch over from the 6 to the 7, do I really get more? If Apple can't leverage more, that would be sad sign. The opposite of that -- Apple can never win -- is that people with older phones go ballistic when newer phones can't do the same.

 

[KrisLord]

I'm surprised by the A10 fusion, but whilst it's no doubt the fastest mobile CPU available the whole "quad core with 2 fast and 2 efficient" has been a staple of ARM processors for a few years, normally referred to as big.LITTLE

 

[redman042]

I agree with the OP. Apple's CPU design chops are stunning. AnandTech knows what they are talking about, and their articles on the A9 and older ones as well have glowed about many of the advancements. I expect they will be amazed with the A10 too. I've been using the A9/A9X for the better part of a year now, and they are beasts. Absolute beasts. It's thrilling to use a mobile device that loads web pages and switches apps as fast as a good desktop.

No other mobile device company is taking on so much and doing it so well. Sure some Android phones have more cores and more megahertz, but repeated comparisons on YouTube show that doesn't translate into iPhone-beating performance. Not even close.

I'm pretty excited that Apple has now designed their own Bluetooth radio in the AirPods. Even today after all the advancements, Bluetooth can be an incredibly frustrating technology, and Apple was right to take it into their own hands.

 

[lordofthereef]

This is the second part of my question. I don't know the answer. Horsepower is good. Using is it for meaningful outcomes to a user is way, way better. When I switch over from the 6 to the 7, do I really get more? If Apple can't leverage more, that would be sad sign. The opposite of that -- Apple can never win -- is that people with older phones go ballistic when newer phones can do the same.

I've just personally never been as pleased with a phone as the 6s plus. Period. Their last gen phone being so wonderful is a large reason in yawning with the iPhone 7 plus. Slightly jealous of the camera. But not $750 jealous. They got me into Apple Watch this year though.

 

[mtcowdog]

I've just personally never been as pleased with a phone as the 6s plus. Period. Their last gen phone being so wonderful is a large reason in yawning with the iPhone 7 plus. Slightly jealous of the camera. But not $750 jealous. They got me into Apple Watch this year though.

As an Apple Watch 1 user for just over a year now, I am jealous of the AW2. I wear the thingsmorning to night every day without exception. From my viewpoint, AW2 with AW OS 3 looks to fix most of what I don't like about the AW1. And I really love my AW1 more than any other technology I own. This is what I want to see with the iPhone. Leverage the power and capacity.

 

[redman042]

This is the second part of my question. I don't know the answer. Horsepower is good. Using is it for meaningful outcomes to a user is way, way better. When I switch over from the 6 to the 7, do I really get more? If Apple can't leverage more, that would be sad sign. The opposite of that -- Apple can never win -- is that people with older phones go ballistic when newer phones can't do the same.

I also find the A9 "as fast as I ever hoped for" (this was absolutely NOT the case with the prior generations). I suspect the bulk of the user experience improvement in the A10 is (1) much better camera and video performance and quality due to enhanced horsepower under the hood; (2) better battery life due to improved throttling, plus more juice reserved for "bursts" in CPU power when needed for intensive tasks.

Over time, they will keep adding more functions to the OS, and that will ask more of the CPU.

Also I think they are prepping to do other things like move Siri processing and intelligent photo categorization to the phone. This is a step in that direction.

 

[MrX8503]

Its an A9X with 2 Slower Cores there was Really No Innovation here, thats it. Problem is due to the iPhones tiny space heat and small battery it has to "throttle" to keep from Over heating so real world performance will be slower than an A9X in the 9.7 and 12.9 iPad Pro

Further people will hate the Sluggishness of Email and Texting on the Slow speed cores and Apple will have to Give an Option Forcing Main 2 Core performance at the Risk of Battery life.

And No Word if All 4 Cores Can Work Together like SnapDragon or Exynos Apples A10 sounds like its 2 Normal Cores and 2 Slow Cores never all 4.

Look for the A11 or A11X to Really show new Features

What in the world? That's completely false.

1. The A10 isn't an A9X with two slower cores added
2. It's not going to throttle
3. It'll be faster than the iPad Pro
4. Task delegation isn't based on app, it's based on processing need. Email and texting won't be slow.
5. Most likely it'll only use 2 cores at a time. Snapdragon/Exynos is slower than the A9 in real world tests. Forget about the A10

I'm surprised by the A10 fusion, but whilst it's no doubt the fastest mobile CPU available the whole "quad core with 2 fast and 2 efficient" has been a staple of ARM processors for a few years, normally referred to as big.LITTLE

Task delegation is a lot more complicated than people think. It took Samsung a few generations to get big.Little right. Apple created a custom chip to delegate tasks to the CPU. In the end big.Little was still slower than Apple's A9. The A10 is gonna crush all SoCs out there.

 

[Dunbar]

I also find the A9 "as fast as I ever hoped for" (this was absolutely NOT the case with the prior generations).

Going from the 6+ to the 6S+ was a night and day difference. Even after a year on the 6S+ I can't complain about performance and I'm a stickler for a fast phone. Web browsing in Chrome with a content blocker is faster on my phone than on my Macbook. I'm struggling to find a compelling reason to upgrade to the 7+.

 

[KrisLord]

[QUOTE="MrX8503

Task delegation is a lot more complicated than people think. It took Samsung a few generations to get big.Little right. Apple created a custom chip to delegate tasks to the CPU. In the end big.Little was still slower than Apple's A9. The A10 is gonna crush all SoCs out there.[/QUOTE]

You're right it wasn't perfect in the early implementations but the tech press, whether they're normally favouring Apple or not seem to be suggesting this big.Little concept is some new unheard of innovation.

I'm intrigued to see how this works for Apple, and whether it's preferable to a 2 or 4 identical cores. I always thought the Samsung and Qualcomm implementations were acknowledgement that they couldn't do a scalable core, suitable for both low and high power usage. Dedicating 2 cores to low power usage is a significant amount of die space that could otherwise be used by high power cores.

 

[Nanotyrns]

What in the world? That's completely false.

1. The A10 isn't an A9X with two slower cores added
2. It's not going to throttle
3. It'll be faster than the iPad Pro
4. Task delegation isn't based on app, it's based on processing need. Email and texting won't be slow.
5. Most likely it'll only use 2 cores at a time. Snapdragon/Exynos is slower than the A9 in real world tests. Forget about the A10

Task delegation is a lot more complicated than people think. It took Samsung a few generations to get big.Little right. Apple created a custom chip to delegate tasks to the CPU. In the end big.Little was still slower than Apple's A9. The A10 is gonna crush all SoCs out there.

People so often forget that Apple, on the A9/10, S1/2, and W1 chip-sets, controls the whole flippin' stack. Software and hardware. This is where they excel. The apps that require low processing power won't be "slower" or choppy since almost certainly a single of the pair of low power chips is probably three times that of any chip more than a few years old and they handled your mail just fine.

 

[HarryWild]

Qualcomm's 820 has it first - the design and the A10 made it an Apple quad core! It not an Apple invention. LOL!

 

[redman042]

Going from the 6+ to the 6S+ was a night and day difference. Even after a year on the 6S+ I can't complain about performance and I'm a stickler for a fast phone. Web browsing in Chrome with a content blocker is faster on my phone than on my Macbook. I'm struggling to find a compelling reason to upgrade to the 7+.

I totally agree. I was driven to upgrade from the 6s Plus to the 7 Plus by the camera primarily. Other improvements I like are the water resistance, deep color display, improved haptics, 2x louder speakers. The CPU is no longer a major driver for me, because the A9 is so amazing. This is a complete switch from when I had the 6 Plus and then the 6s came out. Then, I was dying for a speed and RAM improvement. Boy did they deliver!

 

[KrisLord]

Qualcomm's 820 has it first - the design and the A10 made it an Apple quad core! It not an Apple invention. LOL!

Qualcomm didn't invent it either. They used it in the 810 and maybe earlier but it's a standard method of implementing ARM cores.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARM_big.LITTLE

 

[Nozuka]

Apple is very good at balancing performance and efficiency. It will be interesting to see, how their first attempt with big.LITTLE works out.

It helps, that they can control the hard and software.

 

[adnbek]

Its an A9X with 2 Slower Cores there was Really No Innovation here, thats it. Problem is due to the iPhones tiny space heat and small battery it has to "throttle" to keep from Over heating so real world performance will be slower than an A9X in the 9.7 and 12.9 iPad Pro

Further people will hate the Sluggishness of Email and Texting on the Slow speed cores and Apple will have to Give an Option Forcing Main 2 Core performance at the Risk of Battery life.

And No Word if All 4 Cores Can Work Together like SnapDragon or Exynos Apples A10 sounds like its 2 Normal Cores and 2 Slow Cores never all 4.

Look for the A11 or A11X to Really show new Features

Is your shift key broken or do you just not know how to type properly?

 

[rui no onna]

I'm actually curious about the implementation logic. One of the things I like most about A9/A9X was that it rendered gif- and JavaScript-heavy Tumblr webpages as fast as my desktops and laptops did (finally). It would be quite annoying if it uses the slow cores for web browsing.

 

[Nanotyrns]

I'm actually curious about the implementation logic. One of the things I like most about A9/A9X was that it rendered gif- and JavaScript-heavy Tumblr webpages as fast as my desktops and laptops did (finally). It would be quite annoying if it uses the slow cores for web browsing.

It was mentioned above that task delegation is not app based but need based. A Tumblr page full of gifs would fall into the 'need' category

 

[MrX8503]

You're right it wasn't perfect in the early implementations but the tech press, whether they're normally favouring Apple or not seem to be suggesting this big.Little concept is some new unheard of innovation.

I'm intrigued to see how this works for Apple, and whether it's preferable to a 2 or 4 identical cores. I always thought the Samsung and Qualcomm implementations were acknowledgement that they couldn't do a scalable core, suitable for both low and high power usage. Dedicating 2 cores to low power usage is a significant amount of die space that could otherwise be used by high power cores.

There are 3 ways to improve performance, add more cores, scale current cores, and increase clock speed. I believe increasing clock speed is the least efficient, so you're left with the other two options. Any "active" quad core SoC, whether that be from Qualcomm or Samsung, is an admission that they weren't able to scale a dual core SoC.

Could Apple have used the extra die space to improve the two high power cores and stick with dual core? I don't think so. I think the A10 high power dual cores is the upper limit of what Apple was able to achieve and they needed the extra 2 low power cores to get to a really low power state.

The iPhone 7 is up to 40% faster with 25% brighter screen and gets 1-2hrs+ battery life over the 6S. That's impressive.

I'm actually curious about the implementation logic. One of the things I like most about A9/A9X was that it rendered gif- and JavaScript-heavy Tumblr webpages as fast as my desktops and laptops did (finally). It would be quite annoying if it uses the slow cores for web browsing.

Referring to Apple's custom performance controller:
"...in real time makes sure the correct processes are running for maximum performance or maximum battery life." Phil Schiller

I have no doubt in my mind that it'll work well. Apple has created custom dedicated chips before. For example the TCON for the iMac and the motion co-processor for the iPhone. There's also a custom image processing chip in the iPhone 7,