Absolute noob needing advice on new camera.

[SLC Flyfishing]

toxic,

Could you explain to us just what a 35 mm sensor offers for artistic photography? Cause I've seen some very artistic stuff done with a Holga, and even the dreaded APS-C sensor.

One need not use a FF camera to be serious about photography, and one need not even aspire to a FF camera. Some of the very best photographs you'll see are taken with Nikon D40's or Oly E-410's. An old saying really rings true here "it's not what you've got, it's how you use it".

Now stop being such a Canikon shill.

SLC

 

[SLC Flyfishing]

Sorry if I started a little bit of a heated discussion on here.

I didn't mean to imply that Canon was better than anything else because it has more lenses. I simply said I like the idea that there's always room to expand and alot of their models seem to be compatible with most of their lenses.

Remember, I am a complete noob at this, and I'm only able to do so much research and reading. Part of gaining experience and knowledge is to do, and the only way to do is to have a camera.

So please if I offended anyone, I'm sorry. I really didn't mean for it to sound like I think one make is better than another.

I want to pursue photography as a hobby, odds are it will never go further than that, but I always love to have insight before I jump in.

Thanks everyone for the help and responses. Any other advice and comments please feel free to keep them coming!

Don't worry nobody thinks that you've implied Canon to be better than anything else. I certainly didn't think that.

I just don't like the constant drone of canon and nikon are the only brands for serious photographers. It couldn't be farther from the truth. My wife and I have been doing quite well shooting Pentax for years now. We'll be buying a Nikon system soon because we have a want that only Nikon can take care of for us. But we're keeping and expanding upon our Pentax system too because there are some fantastic lenses that we feel aren't matched in any other brand both in value, build quality, and the look our final prints have. We have niche needs, but before that happened we were puttering along just fine shooting through a supposedly "limiting system" (though it never felt that way).

I just can't advise you strongly enough to make sure you evaluate all your options, not just the brands which start with N and C.

SLC

 

[cube]

second, i say that because only Nikon and Canon offer 35mm cameras and a huge selection of lenses for different budgets.

Well, in the digital realm, there's not only Sony too, but Kodak made full frame bodies for Nikon and Canon mount.

There's still people who prefer the images of the old Kodaks than anything new out there (that doesn't mean there are no issues with them).

Now if you want a non-P&S Kodak, you have to go medium format (Leaf).

 

[mdo574]

Camera

Nikon D90 baby..all the way

 

[toxic]

toxic,

Could you explain to us just what a 35 mm sensor offers for artistic photography? Cause I've seen some very artistic stuff done with a Holga, and even the dreaded APS-C sensor.

One need not use a FF camera to be serious about photography, and one need not even aspire to a FF camera. Some of the very best photographs you'll see are taken with Nikon D40's or Oly E-410's. An old saying really rings true here "it's not what you've got, it's how you use it".

Now stop being such a Canikon shill.

SLC

did i say that you had to have a 35mm sensor to do artistic photography? no. and did you notice that i've already qualified myself over and over?

never did i imply that an APS-C or 1/1.8" sensor is incapable of artistic shots. what i did imply is that many serious photographers will pursue a larger sensor, be it APS-H, 35mm, or MF, because it expands their horizons. most stop at 35mm because of cost, and Nikon, Canon, and Sony are the only manufacturers who offer that (presently).

in case none of this is comprehensible to you, maybe this will be: if i did not want a 35mm sensor, i'd likely be shooting Pentax right now.

Well, in the digital realm, there's not only Sony too, but Kodak made full frame bodies for Nikon and Canon mount.

There's still people who prefer the images of the old Kodaks than anything new out there (that doesn't mean there are no issues with them).

yeah, i forgot about Kodak. i figure they're pretty hard to find, though.

 

[cube]

yeah, i forgot about Kodak. i figure they're pretty hard to find, though.

In your local store, yes. In ebay, there are always some for little money.

 

[SLC Flyfishing]

did i say that you had to have a 35mm sensor to do artistic photography? no. and did you notice that i've already qualified myself over and over?

I suppose you didn't use those exact words, but you did imply that if someone is truly serious about their photography that they will ultimately end up shooting Canon or Nikon.

never did i imply that an APS-C or 1/1.8" sensor is incapable of artistic shots. what i did imply is that many serious photographers will pursue a larger sensor, be it APS-H, 35mm, or MF, because it expands their horizons. most stop at 35mm because of cost, and Nikon, Canon, and Sony are the only manufacturers who offer that (presently).

I still want to know what a 35 mm sensor offers that makes serious shooters gravitate towards it? I'm going D700 because of ISO performance (though I've yet to be truly held back by my K10D because of ISO and it only gives a usable picture up to ISO 800); I know some go there because there are wider angle lenses available on FF bodies. But even then, that's starting to become not true now.

I get that a lot of professional shooters will use a FF camera. But there are a hell of a lot of professional shooters and very serious amateurs who shoot with APS-C DSLR's. Most of the sports shooters I know are shooting with D300's or 40D or 50D's, good for their "serious" and often even "professional" photographic needs because of the monster AF modules, and their sensor format gives their lenses just a little bit of extra reach at a given focal length. Don't Canon and Nikon have crop sensors at the top of their lines as well? I know Nikon doesn't have a camera that's currently in production, but I'm fairly sure you can still buy D2's and they were the be all and end all of Nikon's lineup just 1.5 years ago. Did you pass around the notion that "serious" photographers only shoot Canon before the D3 was announced?

in case none of this is comprehensible to you, maybe this will be: if i did not want a 35mm sensor, i'd likely be shooting Pentax right now.

Somehow I really doubt that, it's too easy to just claim that. But it's a nice thought anyway!

I really could care less about what you shoot, or what you would shoot if you didn't want a FF camera (though I do have to ask, do you have any EF-S or DX format lenses?); I have no brand loyalties in the end at all. What I do take issue with is misguiding information being spread, the only thing you've said (and so far refused to acknowlege was wrong) was that the end goal of essentially all serious shooters is a 35 mm format sensor in their DSLR's. Had you not implied that, in your post, I would have agreed 100% with what you said.

It's just that whether or not it's intentional, advice like that causes people to not consider all their options, and that's bad for everyone in the long run. I think it's important for everyone to be open-minded when approaching a purchase like this, not filled with misinformation that will cause them to discount 3 out of their 5 options sight unseen because somebody on the internet told them that in order for them to be serious about photography they need to restrict their choice to one of the big two brands.

Nothing could be further from the truth.

SLC

 

[cube]

I still want to know what a 35 mm sensor offers that makes serious shooters gravitate towards it? I'm going D700 because of ISO performance (though I've yet to be truly held back by my K10D because of ISO and it only gives a usable picture up to ISO 800); I know some go there because there are wider angle lenses available on FF bodies. But even then, that's starting to become not true now.

There's no DX equivalent of Sigma's 12-24.
You can also use Nikon's DC lenses where space is tight.

 

[Cliff3]

There's no DX equivalent of Sigma's 12-24.
You can also use Nikon's DC lenses where space is tight.

I think you mean Perspective Control (tilt & shift) rather than Defocus Control. Of course, an absolute n00b is more likely to be buying a kit lens than a $2000 hunk of very specialized glass.

 

[cube]

I think you mean Perspective Control (tilt & shift) rather than Defocus Control. Of course, an absolute n00b is more likely to be buying a kit lens than a $2000 hunk of very specialized glass.

No, I did mean DC. A 105mm lens becomes 150 on crop.

But the PC lenses are also another valid point.

He was talking about serious shooters going full frame, not newbies.

 

[Cliff3]

No, I did mean DC. A 105mm lens becomes 150 on crop.

But the PC lenses are also another valid point.

He was talking about serious shooters going full frame, not newbies.

Ahh...I haven't been paying very close attention to this thread. It looks like it has gone far adrift.

I still want to know what a 35 mm sensor offers that makes serious shooters gravitate towards it? I'm going D700 because of ISO performance (though I've yet to be truly held back by my K10D because of ISO and it only gives a usable picture up to ISO 800); I know some go there because there are wider angle lenses available on FF bodies. But even then, that's starting to become not true now.

For one thing, I can shoot with a 300 and not have to head over to the next county in order to frame the photo correctly. My 80-200 regains potential as a portrait lens, and my 85/1.4 is improved as well. In fact, all my lenses pretty much return to normal. And I like that.

Of course, I lose the ability to shoot surfers when I go visit my buddy down at Rincon. I'm thinking about grinding off the tab on my 2x TC to help with that (stacked with a 1.4 on my 300 and that leaves me with an 840/8, which should be ok provided there's enough light).

 

[toxic]

Somehow I really doubt that, it's too easy to just claim that. But it's a nice thought anyway!

that's all i need to know. i'm done wasting my time with you.