OS X Absolutely Fed Up....

[gregorsamsa]

True, RTS games don't work so well on consoles, but RPGs, FPSes, platformers–those work just as well, or nearly so. I'm right with you, I prefer PCs to consoles, but at the same time I think a lot of people enjoy the party aspect of a console, as you're able to have multiple people all playing together on one screen. Not so easy to do with a computer.

Indeed. With that in mind, I'd also not rule out Valve's upcoming hybrid PC/console Steam Box for those who enjoy both genres. A prototype expected to be released within 4 months:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-21677119

It'll be interesting to see what impact it eventually has, though I've no plans to be one of the early buyers. Luckily, games for PC & Mac cater for most of my gaming needs.

 

[edddeduck]

The Mac just isn't a gaming platform, sorry.

As someone who's livelihood is based on Mac gaming I beg to differ and I use myself as proof it is a gaming platform all be it a smaller one than some others.

Edwin

 

[Huntn]

The Mac just isn't a gaming platform, sorry.

For someone who travels, likes MacOS and gaming, and only wants to tote one computer, it's the absolute best...

 

[JaguarGod]

The Mac just isn't a gaming platform, sorry.

While I believe a lot of people may agree with your statement, it is a bit strange to say that it simply "isn't" a gaming platform. I have been gaming on Macs since the early 90's and still do. Whether or not it is a GOOD or GREAT gaming platform is another thing. But it is a gaming platform none-the-less and a lot of players do game on their Macs. Some, like myself, game a whole heck of a lot on their Macs. While I do own a PS3, XBOX360, etc. and there are definitely more "triple-A" titles on the consoles of course, the Mac is still a good gaming platform in my opinion.

As Edwin stated above, he makes a living off of Mac games and there are plenty of others, like myself, who are happy to release games on the Mac platform. Though my game does not sell nearly as well as Feral's superb releases Not even close!

You are always entitled to your opinion of course and I definitely respect yours. You are a Mac user and you know what you like. But I think the stigma that the Mac is not a gaming platform is just a bit strange.

 

[edddeduck]

But I think the stigma that the Mac is not a gaming platform is just a bit strange.

Yep it's a bit like the "You guys got Pong on the Mac yet?" joke....

Edwin

 

[gregorsamsa]

For someone who travels, likes MacOS and gaming, and only wants to tote one computer, it's the absolute best...

Indeed, esp so for many Mac gamers who, like you, are frequently itinerant. You're also in the camp that does most of their gaming in Windows, but seem fine with regular rebooting.

But for the vast majority of gamers desiring reasonably-priced, powerful desktops that they can upgrade later according to changing needs, IMO, in this context only, Macs remain 2nd best.

Each to their own of course, but I can't see my view changing much in future. Not least as the chances of an upgradable, consumer-priced Mac are probably zilch.

 

[edddeduck]

Not least as the chances of an upgradable, consumer-priced Mac are probably zilch.

Yup

 

[whooleytoo]

Not least as the chances of an upgradable, consumer-priced Mac are probably zilch.

True. Once upon a time the argument was such a Mac would cannibalise the high-margin Mac Pro / PowerMac sales; but Mac Pro sales now are pretty much negligible (or in Europe, non-existant), so that point is now dust.

I guess there are two reasons for it - forced obsolescence (upgradable Macs have a longer useful life, which Apple doesn't necessarily want), and the challenge of building up 3rd party support. Apple doesn't want to build a 'gaming' Mac, and then have it criticised for the lack of games. Gaming isn't like other application segments - people can get by happily with one spreadsheet, one word processor, one photo editing app, but they'll want many games and a choice of dozens/hundreds. That makes it hard for anyone with a small market-share to do well in gaming. And Apple is very protective of its image, it doesn't ship lame-ducks. They even label the AppleTV a 'hobby', which deflects any potential criticism of it.

Given Apple's push into the living room (and the large developer base they now have developing iOS games), I'd love to see them push into the gaming market, but like you I won't be holding my breath.

 

[Huntn]

Indeed, esp so for many Mac gamers who, like you, are frequently itinerant. You're also in the camp that does most of their gaming in Windows, but seem fine with regular rebooting.

That I am. Only because there are games that are not available native MacOS or take a huge hit playing on MacOS. World of Tanks is my current obsession. I'd be very willing to give it a shot natively if the developers ever decided to do a Mac version.

But for the vast majority of gamers desiring reasonably-priced, powerful desktops that they can upgrade later according to changing needs, IMO, in this context only, Macs remain 2nd best.

From the context of gaming you are right. However, for everything else I prefer the MacOS environment.

Each to their own of course, but I can't see my view changing much in future. Not least as the chances of an upgradable, consumer-priced Mac are probably zilch.

Tell me if I'm wrong, but when it comes to 'gaming laptops' my impression is that Macs are competitive price wise for what they offer. For desktops, they tend to be more expensive, but this is their nitch.

 

[edddeduck]

Tell me if I'm wrong, but when it comes to 'gaming laptops' my impression is that Macs are competitive price wise for what they offer. For desktops, they tend to be more expensive, but this is their nitch.

Yeah for laptops they are pretty competitive (IMHO) especially when you start looking at the details of all the components. CPU is i7 not an i3 or worse etc

Edwin

 

[gregorsamsa]

True. Once upon a time the argument was such a Mac would cannibalise the high-margin Mac Pro / PowerMac sales; but Mac Pro sales now are pretty much negligible (or in Europe, non-existant), so that point is now dust.

I guess there are two reasons for it - forced obsolescence (upgradable Macs have a longer useful life, which Apple doesn't necessarily want), and the challenge of building up 3rd party support. Apple doesn't want to build a 'gaming' Mac, and then have it criticised for the lack of games. Gaming isn't like other application segments - people can get by happily with one spreadsheet, one word processor, one photo editing app, but they'll want many games and a choice of dozens/hundreds. That makes it hard for anyone with a small market-share to do well in gaming. And Apple is very protective of its image, it doesn't ship lame-ducks. They even label the AppleTV a 'hobby', which deflects any potential criticism of it.

Given Apple's push into the living room (and the large developer base they now have developing iOS games), I'd love to see them push into the gaming market, but like you I won't be holding my breath.

All VG points & I agree! That said, it wouldn't greatly surprise me to see a bigger push from Apple into the relatively profitable casual-gaming market, but not beyond.

As much as I'd want more upgradability with Macs, better GPUs, greater development of OpenGL, ultimately more games, etc. I have to remind myself that it's hard to argue too much with Apple's business model when it's been so successful over so many years.

----------

Tell me if I'm wrong, but when it comes to 'gaming laptops' my impression is that Macs are competitive price wise for what they offer. For desktops, they tend to be more expensive, but this is their nitch.

Quite agree with you & Ed. Also, not least that Macs offer so much more of course, esp for those of us with considerable investments in OS X software & long-established modes of working.

As you say, even within a gaming context, the high-end MBPs still compare fairly favourably with gaming PC laptops:

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2020688,00.asp

However, my own preferences regarding gaming means that a desktop would always be the only serious consideration. But I see where you're coming from.

 

[apolloa]

The Mac just isn't a gaming platform, sorry.

Wrong way to phrase that, because ANY Mac IS a gaming platform hardware wise, especially the latest ones, no, it is OSX that is NOT a gaming platform, and that is really purely down to lack of interest from developers and Apple, yes Apple because thay could have approached game devs years ago, instead we read storys from Gabe Newell himself about how Apple were never interested in games.

Anyway, install Windows and game, then again on my 2010 Mac I play Diablo 3 and Starcraft 2 and Steam games just fine? hmm maybe OSX does have some developers support after all eh

But to really game, all it requires is a little effort and installing Windows via bootcamp. And even if you build your own computer you still need to buy Windows.

 

[edddeduck]

no, it is OSX that is NOT a gaming platform, and that is really purely down to lack of interest from developers

Could have fooled me..

Here is a list of Mac games that I have worked on myself (and are still available to buy) never mind all the games from Asypr, EA, Ubisoft, 2K Games and Valve to mention but a few other companies!

Batman: Arkham Asylum
Batman: Arkham City Game of the Year Edition
Battlestations: Midway
Battlestations: Pacific
BioShock
BioShock 2
Black & White 2
Borderlands
Borderlands: Game of the Year Edition
Brothers in Arms: Double Time
Chessmaster 9000
Deus Ex: Human Revolution - Ultimate Edition
DiRT 2
Empire: Total War - Gold Edition
F1 2012
Fable: The Lost Chapters
GRID
Imperial Glory
LEGO Batman
LEGO Batman 2: DC Super Heroes
LEGO Harry Potter: Years 1-4
LEGO Harry Potter: Years 5-7
LEGO Indiana Jones 2: The Adventure Continues
LEGO Indiana Jones: The Original Adventures
LEGO Star Wars II: The Original Trilogy
LEGO Star Wars III: The Clone Wars
LEGO Star Wars: The Complete Saga
LEGO The Lord of the Rings
Mafia II: Director’s Cut
Mini Ninjas
Napoleon: Total War - Gold Edition
Puzzler World
Rome: Total War - Gold Edition
Sid Meier's Pirates!
Sid Meier's Railroads!
Sonic & SEGA All-Stars Racing
The Movies
The Movies: Stunts & Effects
The Movies: Superstar Edition
Tomb Raider: Anniversary
Tomb Raider: Underworld
Trainz
Tropico 3: Gold Edition
Worms 3D
XCOM: Enemy Unknown - Elite Edition

Sure OS X is not a gaming giant in terms of platforms but saying it is not a gaming platform is incorrect as well. It has less games than the PC sure but it's still a pretty decent gaming platform in it's own right!

 

[JaguarGod]

Could have fooled me..

Here is a list of Mac games that I have worked on myself (and are still available to buy) never mind all the games from Asypr, EA, Ubisoft, 2K Games and Valve to mention but a few other companies!

EDITED GAMES OUT...

Sure OS X is not a gaming giant in terms of platforms but saying it is not a gaming platform is incorrect as well. It has less games than the PC sure but it's still a pretty decent gaming platform in it's own right!

Well, you know well as anyone, Edwin, that the Mac and OSX get a bad wrap when it comes to gaming. For someone to say that a Mac or OSX is not a gaming platform is simply incorrect. But it is the perception that a lot (maybe most) Mac and Windows users have. It is not as large as console and PC and that is a fact. How many times do you see this same forum post, "if you want to game, build a Windows gaming PC"? It is true that a lot of developers shy away from the Mac platform, but it has less to do with OSX and more to do with the size of the Mac user base. The Mac is a fine gaming platform. If it can grow year over year as it has done in the past few years, I believe it will get better. But it is still such a small market.

I developed my game for OSX because I love the Mac platform and I believe OSX is the best operating system around. I love the fact that companies like Feral show that the Mac can have games perform at a high level, no matter how old or new they are. But to say that OSX or the Mac itself is not a gaming platform is a bit disingenuous. But it is unfortunate that this stigma is so widely accepted. We need more games and more players on OSX.

 

[edddeduck]

But to say that OSX or the Mac itself is not a gaming platform is a bit disingenuous. But it is unfortunate that this stigma is so widely accepted. We need more games and more players on OSX.

Yep it's not a big gaming platform but it is a growing gaming platform. If I look at our 2013 lineup it is better than 2012 which is better than 2011. It's definitely a work in progress but compared to the late 90s we are in a much better spot and with things like Apple's MAS it's easier for developers to find users and vice versa.

Long my the constant improvements and growth of the entire Mac gaming industry continue

Edwin

 

[apolloa]

Could have fooled me..

Here is a list of Mac games that I have worked on myself (and are still available to buy) never mind all the games from Asypr, EA, Ubisoft, 2K Games and Valve to mention but a few other companies!

Yeah but lets be honest here, compared to a PS3 or Xbox 360 or PC that list of games is tiny, almost non existent, a joke, not worth writing on a piece of paper! I also do not count iOS games that have been converted as then you can compare Xbox Arcade etc games which again the Mac pales in comparison to. Also the drivers for Macs are crap, as in the graphics drivers which is another fault of Apple and another reason to game on bootcamp.

Yes Apple has SOME support, but the reason people think it isn't a gaming platform IS because it has no games, I mean where is COD BLOPS 2? And that's just one game.

Apple has made a start, mainly I would say in part to Valve, but it has a long long long long long long long long long long way to go yet.

 

[Irishman]

But for the vast majority of gamers desiring reasonably-priced, powerful desktops that they can upgrade later according to changing needs, IMO, in this context only, Macs remain 2nd best.

So, second best isn't a great option?? Or are we taking our cues from Ricky Bobby now? "If you ain't first, you're last!"

 

[JaguarGod]

Yeah but lets be honest here, compared to a PS3 or Xbox 360 or PC that list of games is tiny, almost non existent, a joke, not worth writing on a piece of paper! I also do not count iOS games that have been converted as then you can compare Xbox Arcade etc games which again the Mac pales in comparison to. Also the drivers for Macs are crap, as in the graphics drivers which is another fault of Apple and another reason to game on bootcamp.

Yes Apple has SOME support, but the reason people think it isn't a gaming platform IS because it has no games, I mean where is COD BLOPS 2? And that's just one game.

Apple has made a start, mainly I would say in part to Valve, but it has a long long long long long long long long long long way to go yet.

All very valid points as the Mac has a much smaller library than the others. But the point was made around saying the Mac/OSX ISN'T a gaming platform. It is a gaming platform, just a small one. Also, there are many Mac fanatics who are excited about the future of Mac gaming. Granted, most of us are a bit older and have used Macs for a very long time, but nonetheless still see an upward swing in acceptance and release dates. I think every Mac enthusiast would love the Mac to be as large as all the others and then some, but it is not. No one will argue with you on the size of the Mac gaming base and the games available.

 

[gregorsamsa]

So, second best isn't a great option?? Or are we taking our cues from Ricky Bobby now? "If you ain't first, you're last!"

I wouldn't polarize it so. If I could buy only one computer, there are many reasons why I'd buy a Mac over a PC. However, none of them have much to do with gaming. My opinion might be different if Apple had a consumer-priced, upgradable desktop Mac, but that's not to be.

However, as one lucky enough to be able to do most of my serious work on a Mac Mini, for me, adding a gaming PC made far more sense in meeting that interest than buying any premium-priced, non-upgradable AIO.

End of the day, I can hardly express opinions to other posters that run contrary to my own choices. That said, hopefully, anyone reading my comments doesn't take my advice, or anyone else's for that matter, but only buys what's right for their specific needs.

 

[tekboi]

I'm new here, and I apologise for my early rant, but I am just about pissed off. I realise that this has probably been brought up time and time again, but I'm gonna bring it up again. I keep being told by everyone that Apple has now overtaken Microsoft with sales etc. etc. and is supposed to be the more popular system. So why, why, why, why, why are there still no bloody games out there for the Mac? It seems absolutely bizarre in the extreme to me. Every time a new game comes out I scour the Internet trying to find a Mac version, but its like trying to get blood out of a stone. Not only that, but its not simply just confined to games. This can and usually does apply to many other new software programmes of any nature to come out. Why is this weird, inexplicable scenario existing at all? Please can somebody offer me up a good logical explanation as to why this should be? Mac is such a great system when compared to Windows, the only snag is you try finding anything that will run on it, unless we all have a spare windows machine hiding in the cupboard, we're all buggered.

Apple simply doesn't cater towards the gaming market enough. And they won't until they figure that there is enough demand for it.

 

[edddeduck]

Yeah but lets be honest here, compared to a PS3 or Xbox 360 or PC that list of games is tiny, almost non existent, a joke, not worth writing on a piece of paper!

That is not a list of Mac games just a list of games I worked on myself! I did not want to take the time to list EVERY Mac game!

A little harsh you called the list of games I worked on as a joke but I dunno perhaps the list of AAA games you have worked on is better in comparison

Yes Apple has SOME support, but the reason people think it isn't a gaming platform IS because it has no games, I mean where is COD BLOPS 2? And that's just one game.

The Wii does not have it either does that mean the Wii (best selling console outselling the 360) is not a gaming platform?

Windows does not have Gran Turismo I could go on and on if I wanted with similar straw man examples

Apple has made a start, mainly I would say in part to Valve, but it has a long long long long long long long long long long way to go yet.

I don't really think Valve have had a bigger part to play than others. To be honest I would say the Mac AppStore has had the biggest impact (so far) on AAA games coming to the Mac.

It's great Valve finally decided to bring their games to the Mac instead of ignoring of the Mac platform however they are not a magic bullet to all our gaming problems.

Edwin

 

[saturnotaku]

I don't really think Valve have had a bigger part to play than others. To be honest I would say the Mac AppStore has had the biggest impact (so far) on AAA games coming to the Mac.

It's great Valve finally decided to bring their games to the Mac instead of ignoring of the Mac platform however they are not a magic bullet to all our gaming problems.

Edwin

Feral, Aspyr, 2K, and even now EA have done far more to advance OS X as a gaming platform than Valve ever has. I will go so far as to say that Valve has virtually abandoned the Mac. The Source engine ports are quite poor, both in terms of performance and reliability when compared to their Windows counterparts. Some of that is due to the fact that their games are not native Mac apps, but rather are the Windows games run in some sort of in-house emulator. To prove this, check the SteamApps folder in your library, and you'll see that the files for these games are the same ones you'll find if you download the game in Windows. The Steam client itself is still plagued by memory leaks and high CPU usage.

Now don't get me wrong, Steam is still an important piece in the OS X gaming pie. EA porting Origin to Mac is another good sign as well. However, in the grand scheme, Feral and Aspyr will continue to lead the way. Hopefully they will see increased cooperation from AAA developers and publishers so that proper OS X ports can continue to be created.

 

[apolloa]

All very valid points as the Mac has a much smaller library than the others. But the point was made around saying the Mac/OSX ISN'T a gaming platform. It is a gaming platform, just a small one. Also, there are many Mac fanatics who are excited about the future of Mac gaming. Granted, most of us are a bit older and have used Macs for a very long time, but nonetheless still see an upward swing in acceptance and release dates. I think every Mac enthusiast would love the Mac to be as large as all the others and then some, but it is not. No one will argue with you on the size of the Mac gaming base and the games available.

I think Apple need to get drivers that give performance on par with Windows on the same hardware for me to consider OSX as a gaming platform. Apple need to make a much bigger effort here.

That is not a list of Mac games just a list of games I worked on myself! I did not want to take the time to list EVERY Mac game!

A little harsh you called the list of games I worked on as a joke but I dunno perhaps the list of AAA games you have worked on is better in comparison

I was thinking as I posted of Apple's entire list of games for the Mac, compared to that of the PS3 or Xbox 360 library. Sorry I didn't clarify, but even so, your are seriously going to say I was harsh comparing your games list to that of the current gen of games consoles?

The Wii does not have it either does that mean the Wii (best selling console outselling the 360) is not a gaming platform?

Windows does not have Gran Turismo I could go on and on if I wanted with similar straw man examples

And again, just how many other games does the Wii have? Where is Mario for Mac? As for Gran Turismo? That's a PS3 exclusive and yet another example of a console having many many more games then the Mac. Windows has plenty of other driving sims, Xbox has Forza, Mac has no exclusive driving car sims as far as I know.

I don't really think Valve have had a bigger part to play than others. To be honest I would say the Mac AppStore has had the biggest impact (so far) on AAA games coming to the Mac.

It's great Valve finally decided to bring their games to the Mac instead of ignoring of the Mac platform however they are not a magic bullet to all our gaming problems.

Edwin

Gabe Newell stated that you meet with Apple, they are like all excited about games and Steam and promise you everything, then you go back the next year with a whole load of new people and the same thing happens all over again!

So yes I do think Valve gave Apple the push it needed to realise games are more then Angry Birds.

As for your other reply's, why are you defending the indefensible? Are you really using your list of games as a basis for your argument? That it stands up to the list of games on Windows or a games console?
Does the Mac have any exclusives that are not ports from iOS? I think it will change with the app store and Steam, but as I stated already Apple SERIOUSLY need to work on their software and drivers, just look at the MB Pro forums about gamers with Retina Macs and the rough ride they have had for proof.

I'll stick by my guns, Apple has made a start but it has a very very long way to go yet, as to how quick, or slow it takes to get there is up to them.

 

[Dirtyharry50]

To be honest I would say the Mac AppStore has had the biggest impact (so far) on AAA games coming to the Mac.

Edwin

I would tend to agree as someone who came over to Mac last May and was looking for good quality gaming, having been a PC gamer since the PC-XT. And there was the App Store, right on my desktop. So, of course I had a little look. Here are some of the games I have bought on the App Store (which I prefer now btw) since then:

Batman: Arkham Asylum
Batman: Arkham City Game of the Year Edition
BioShock
BioShock 2
Borderlands: Game of the Year Edition
Brothers in Arms: Double Time
Deus Ex: Human Revolution - Ultimate Edition
DiRT 2
Empire: Total War - Gold Edition
GRID
Mini Ninjas
Rome: Total War - Gold Edition
Sid Meier's Pirates!
Sid Meier's Railroads!
The Movies: Superstar Edition
Tomb Raider: Underworld
Tropico 3: Gold Edition

I am looking forward to these when they release and will buy them:
XCOM: Enemy Unknown - Elite Edition
Napoleon: Total War - Gold Edition
Sonic & SEGA All-Stars Racing

Thanks for saving me some typing edddeduck. I copied from your list! Oh, and thanks for working to make those too! lol

Now, that is a LOT of quality game time above, just in that list. As a new Mac user last year, just buying Feral releases I would enjoy playing (some I had on Windows before) that should keep me busy for many, many hours.

But... I am a gaming crazy and admittedly collect them too, tossing stuff into a growing backlog I'll get to eventually. But I like to know I have lots of fun options in my library to play. It turns out, there is no shortage of high quality titles for Mac and also it turns out that my Mac can run anything I want to play at high or max settings usually. I can live with that.

But wait! There's more! I won't list them all but I've bought quite a few Aspyr titles on the App Store too. And, since I was a Windows user before who had Steam it turned out when I converted, thanks to Steamplay, I had about 100 games for Mac instantly since I had owned them for Windows already. Nice! In particular, I am happy to have all things Valve for my Mac native. Yes!

But wait! There is still more! Origin has a Mac client and since I could not get Sims 3 for Mac on the App Store, I went there for that and also picked up SPORE and something else I forget now. See that? I have so many games for Mac I forget what the heck I have. I have to keep a list to keep track. I don't have to but I like to and I've already admitted to being crazy about gaming.

But wait! Yep, there is still even more. I have tons of excellent, fun indie games for Mac. Most of the best and best known ones have Mac releases as well as Windows. Yay!

Oh, I almost forgot something! BLIZZARD!!! I am a big Blizzard fan and love World of Warcraft which is native on Mac. I also have StarCraft II and Diablo III. Blizzard always supports Mac. Yay!

I left out Virtual Programming but I know I have some stuff done by them.

Paradox Grand Strategy games are usually released for Mac too. Crusader Kings II, EUIII, Hearts of Iron, etc.

There is more but I am forgetting now. You see, there is actually so many good Mac titles available I can't recall them all and a list of them all would be too long to be posting in this forum, nor do I have the time or inclination to bother.

I think I've made my point.

As someone who was an avid PC gamer forever my move to Mac has been painless. It's been awesome in every way, including gaming. The one concession I will make is that yes, sure there are AAA games that will come along sometimes that I might not see available for the Mac. In my mind, this is what a console is for. Next Generation I am leaning towards a PS4 but we'll see. So with that, pretty much everything is covered very nicely.

Oh! Something else! Mac gamers can with a little effort do some simple porting of their own with Wineskin as I have just finally learned first hand. I had no trouble making my own Mac versions of Orcs Must Die, Halo Combat Evolved, Nation Red and Guild Wars. They all work great too. I did have to bother to do a little reading and some google searches for help but it all turned out very well and was fun to do. I learned some new things along the way. And there is Boxer too for running MS-DOS oldies but goodies you might purchase on GOG.com although they are now starting to roll those up for users as they offer Mac titles now of classic games too.

Pretty good huh? All that and I didn't bother touching on the fact that you could if need be, reboot into Windows with the help of Bootcamp on a case by case basis for special games.

Don't tell me you can't play good games and plenty of them on a Macintosh. I know you can. I do it all the time now.

I can't resist a few more worthy mentions. Turbine released a native version of Lord of the Rings Online recently, which is an excellent MMO if you like that sort of thing. I've played it and it runs great and looks great. The upcoming Elder Scrolls Online is going to release with a Mac version. Blizzards next online game, code named "Titan" will be releasing on the Mac as well as PC. EA last I knew was recruiting (maybe they have hired by now) an engineer to port the Frostbite Engine to OS X. This is a clear indication they have plans to release more Mac titles, not to mention their recent introduction of a Mac Origin client.

I would say the future of Mac gaming looks very, very good.

Arguments about how Macs are not gaming machines I really don't get either. It depends on the Mac you buy, just as similar choices are made on the PC side of things. A low end PC doesn't play games well either. The 27" mid 2011 iMac offered the fastest mobile GPU available at the time it released. The late 2012 27" has done the same thing again. How can anyone say Apple is not considering gaming with choices to sell hardware like that? As for comparing high end gaming rigs to Macs, that is an unfair and irrelevant comparison. A more reasonable comparison would be comparing say, an iMac model to a PC with the same GPU, CPU, RAM, etc. Things get a lot closer then. Of course, the Mac costs more but you get what you pay for. I don't think most Mac users buy them as gaming consoles. They use them for other things and gaming is something they like to do with them too. Again, on the PC side, take a look at the Steam hardware survey and you can see what the average PC gamer is really running. They are not high end rigs with high end video. So such comparisons are pretty much moot. Yes, a high end gaming PC will blow away any Mac. It will also blow away what MOST PC gamers are playing on.

 

[JaguarGod]

I think Apple need to get drivers that give performance on par with Windows on the same hardware for me to consider OSX as a gaming platform. Apple need to make a much bigger effort here.



I was thinking as I posted of Apple's entire list of games for the Mac, compared to that of the PS3 or Xbox 360 library. Sorry I didn't clarify, but even so, your are seriously going to say I was harsh comparing your games list to that of the current gen of games consoles?



And again, just how many other games does the Wii have? Where is Mario for Mac? As for Gran Turismo? That's a PS3 exclusive and yet another example of a console having many many more games then the Mac. Windows has plenty of other driving sims, Xbox has Forza, Mac has no exclusive driving car sims as far as I know.



Gabe Newell stated that you meet with Apple, they are like all excited about games and Steam and promise you everything, then you go back the next year with a whole load of new people and the same thing happens all over again!

So yes I do think Valve gave Apple the push it needed to realise games are more then Angry Birds.

As for your other reply's, why are you defending the indefensible? Are you really using your list of games as a basis for your argument? That it stands up to the list of games on Windows or a games console?
Does the Mac have any exclusives that are not ports from iOS? I think it will change with the app store and Steam, but as I stated already Apple SERIOUSLY need to work on their software and drivers, just look at the MB Pro forums about gamers with Retina Macs and the rough ride they have had for proof.

I'll stick by my guns, Apple has made a start but it has a very very long way to go yet, as to how quick, or slow it takes to get there is up to them.

I think maybe Edwin was replying more to the fact that you stated the Mac had a list of games that was..... "a joke, not worth writing on a piece of paper!" and..... "IS because it has no games". I think that may have been a bit strong. I think we can all see that the list of games on Mac is smaller than PC and the consoles. No one will argue that. But again, it is a gaming platform, just a smaller one. I do not think the Macs list of games is non-existent or a joke, just smaller. It definitely will not appeal to every gamer out there who may want all the big name games. But I have a lot of fun gaming on my Macs.

Your argument is valid and you have every right to your opinion as it is obvious that you are passionate about gaming itself, but maybe the way you put it was a bit strong. That's all.