I disagree. I don't understand why you are on a mission to diminish the value of mouse support for those who say they need it.
You have a very narrow view of how keyboard and mice are used in applications like spreadsheets. If you think the only reason for using a mouse is to click on menu items then it appears that you haven't spent much time using spreadsheets.
As the late great Steve Jobs would repeat, people don’t know what they want. That’s why Apple don’t follow the path of the Android manufacturers every years while they false-innovate with an array of short sighted features - And Apple knows what it’s doing... a lot better than you or I. And in this case, it’s aligned with what I’m saying.
You’re wrong about my use of spreadsheets, that’s for sure! Lol Perhaps you should speak to some high level Excel users about how they navigate their worksheets for some insight?
Yup! Why not both? Then WE decide what we want to carry around. Or not.
You can decide, PCs and Macs offer Mouse + Keyboard support. They have been developed for decades now to support this and there are even some PCs smaller than iPads if you believe carrying a separate device (e.g. a tablet) and then a keyboard, and then A mouse is ideal, maybe it makes sense to you? Sounds like that’s what you’d prefer, anyway.
^This. There are certain tasks where using a mouse makes more sense than keyboards and vice versa. Choice is good.
Yes, but for these tasks it makes way more sense for you, the individual with that view, to buy a laptop PC or Mac... they exist already. There’s no need to morph the iPad into a duplicate of this IMO.
Is choice good? Look at Android, there’s a lot of Poor choices out there and even the best choices fall short of Apple level attention to detail and fluid ness at best.
Yup. The fact that OP can do circles around me using just a keyboard is completely irrelevant to me wanting the ability to use a mouse when I want to.
It was only expressed as that because of the angle the mouse-evangelists take to try and make a case for mouse support as being needed for ‘pro use’. Pros are largely beyond the mouse for speed and efficiency.
I said it above, there are plenty of laptop PCs and Macs if you really want a mouse. Alternatively, there are Surface Gos etc on the market, priced similarly to the iPad - why ruin iOS optimisation for touch by making mouse support a serious element? It can’t exist in a vacuum.
Not really, I prefer the current keyboard. Also, the mouse support is not meant for “pros” or users, It is meant for disabled bodies to navigate iPadOS that uses assistive touch type features. iPad will never get true mouse support bc its not needed, the pencils and your fingers are the mouse for able bodied people. Apple is technically sticking to their vision of how the iPad is meant to be used
That’s the only good case I can think of for having it. Not because a minority of vocal users feel it’s a requirement.
As things stand now, desktop mouse support makes little sense beyond accessibility. That does not mean it will not make sense in the future.
People have very simplistic thoughts, like just give me mouse support like on mac and windows. It doesn‘t work like that...
Apps need to be updated to support mouse. That’s why apple is bringing ipad apps to mac. It’s only after a number of developers have adapted their app to work with mouse that it will start to make sense. Also Apple needs to solve external monitor support, as this is one of the main cases where mouse is not just useful but essential. And it’s a chicken and egg situation. Desktop like monitor support needs decent mouse support, but apps need to be compatible, otherwise it‘s a partial mess like touch on windows.
I agree. Some of these people can’t understand this concept and it’s very real. Mouse support, done right, would infringe on iOS strengths of being a touch based OS and being out in the field etc. We’d ultimately just end up with a clunkier macOS. These people could really do with respecting the iPads niche, direction and possibility that it will develop into something better than and more than a mouse.
I’d love better external monitor support too btw!
No I want a real mouse, android handles it really well so why can’t iOS? My device should work how I want to work not the other way around
Maybe on Android pal, but Apple tend to design iOS for the masses - most people. That means your minority interest in mouse support isn’t actually a priority for them. If you want a device that works that way, there are plenty on the market - Surface Go To name one good example.
Android handles it well? How many professional grade apps are on Android, how many vendors actually make useful Android tablets? ... look at the sales numbers and you’ll see how much wonder mouse support has made on Android. You could have argued it’d bring Android tablets back from the dead but nope.
Android is a bit like eating what you want, when you want. Sure it’s great at the time, but you start to feel a bit crappy after a while. Apple is like a rich, disciplined diet. You might not get all the sweet stuff all the time but what you do get is far better for you and helps you stand the test of time a lot better. It also seems to taste a lot less bitter ;-)
Another "I want my iPad to be a Mac" thread.
Yeah, I'm a touch-keyboarder from way back. I've used iPad since Day 3 of the first generation iPad, and I've always had a physical keyboard for those iPads. I remember the days pre-Mac/pre-Windows, when keyboard shortcuts were everything. And when the mouse came along, it was clear that keeping both hands on the keyboard was often more efficient than moving one hand back and forth to the mouse. And back before iOS supported some of the most common keyboard shortcuts... it was a bit of a pain.
But I'm also lousy at memorization, so my regular repertoire of keyboard shortcuts amounts to about a dozen or so combinations. GUIs are great for me, because regardless of whether it's mouse/trackpad or touch (and one of these days, I'll do a better job of mastering speech), I can invoke a relatively small repertoire of GUI conventions and find the function I need. Moving a pointer or finger directly to the desired menu or screen element is often far more efficient than using keyboard (or voice) navigation to reach that same element. (As wonderful as Voice Over can be for someone with vision issues, it's still a far less efficient way to get around the screen than the methods available to a sighted person.)
What's my point? This isn't about "Pro" or non-pro. This is about the individual user, and each person finding the method(s) that work best for her/his needs. If one must continue to work in the same, familiar way, with the same tools and conventions, then change of any sort is not going to work. Expecting new tools/methods to be totally backwards-compatible with methods that have been "old-fashioned" for the past 30 years? You may not get your wish. (And let's face it, Mac/Windows apps do not come with nearly as many pre-mapped keyboard combinations as apps designed for keyboard-only entry came with. Just what is the world coming to?)
You know yourself how much the current keyboard shortcuts on iOS have improved things when using a keyboard, you know how the keyboard shortcuts speed up cutting / pasting for example compared to reaching up for the screen. Using a mouse for this on the iPad, right clicking and then right clicking again... that’s a step back. It’s scenarios like this behind my post. A CMD-C and CMD-V can be done in a fraction of a second. Many similar examples exist.
How these guys can make a case for the mouse, beyond “I want it so I should get it” is incredibly silly, short-sighted and flawed - to me.
The discussion is good, but it seems to only reinforce my views initially.
