Wholeheartedly agree that there are choices out there. As much as I like my iPP 12.9 I've come to grips with its limitations and am ready to move on to a Surface or Surface Pro X soon. I don't necessarily buy into the fear that iOS optimization is going to be negatively impacted by the implementation of mouse support. The user base that will use mice will be a minority for sure which will still mean developers will still lean towards touch optimized interfaces that the iPad is intended for. But we can agree to disagree here, it is possible that devs will consider interface changes.
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iPad Actually, Pros want better Keyboard Support - not mouse
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Wholeheartedly agree that there are choices out there. As much as I like my iPP 12.9 I've come to grips with its limitations and am ready to move on to a Surface or Surface Pro X soon. I don't necessarily buy into the fear that iOS optimization is going to be negatively impacted by the implementation of mouse support. The user base that will use mice will be a minority for sure which will still mean developers will still lean towards touch optimized interfaces that the iPad is intended for. But we can agree to disagree here, it is possible that devs will consider interface changes.
I haven’t owned a mouse in 19 years. My kids have never owned on. I do like the trackpad on my MBP, but I have zero needs nor desire for a physical mouse. In reality I’m just fine with a good keyboard and Apple Pencil. I might go for a keyboard with trackpad if Apple made/supported one.
No, it actually does not make sense for me. Sure, I could buy a PC or a Mac but then would have to switch back and forth between multiple devices to get things done, not to mention the inconvenience of having to carry them around when traveling. Mouse support eliminates the need for that would allow me to just use my iPad. With the changes in the Files app and multitasking, it is very close to being a do all device for me. I could even get buy with the current mouse support in a pinch, though it could be polished for non-accessibility users.
Yes there are. And some good things. Just like with Apple. Not liking some things about how Android works is a really poor excuse for Apple not to do something.
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I have an Apple pencil too and it works great - when I am not using the keyboard with my iPad. But when I am, having to reach up and touch the screen over the keyboard is an ergonometric nightmare.
You are completely missing the point. According to your logic I should use a laptop for things requiring a mouse and an iPad for other things. That requires switching between multiple devices when I work and carrying multiple devices when I travel. Since the iPad with better mouse support is more than capable of doing everything I need it makes no sense to carry multiple devices.
That isn't what I said at all. I said there are good things and bad things in Android, just like in Apple. If Android implements a feature badly, that doesn't mean Apple should not do it. Apple regularly takes things done poorly by other companies and makes it better.
I have a laptop and an iPad. I'm not held back by anything. But I could use my iPad much more with better mouse support. Since Apple sells the iPad and also sells a keyboard for it, they clearly acknowledge that the touch interface falls flat for certain tasks like text entry. Anyone using their iPad and keyboard for long periods of time understands that having to reach up and touch the screen for things that can't be done with keyboard shortcuts sucks. A mouse alleviates the reaching up and touching ergonomic nightmare created by Apple. The accessibility mouse support can be used to alleviate this, but isn't a polished solution. The touch interface is great for the times when I am not using my Apple keyboard and works like it should.
I would be happy if they just added backlighting to the Smart Keyboard.
Used to say the same but I can type without seeing and have gotten used to the Smart Keyboard now and it doesn’t bother me that there is no backlight
Idk, i like the Smart Keyboard but i wish split keyboard was available for the 12.9/11. Why this hasn’t been a thing since day one is a mystery.
Yes, you should use a laptop for things requiring a mouse, they've got mouse support and they're the king at it. It's the right tool for the job... That's my point, not missed in the slightest. Use an iPad for other things, you know, like tablet things. Tablet doesn't suit? Use the laptop... it's not rocket science. Again, that 'one device' you're describing, I get it, but it's a Surface line device. It exists.
Android tablets literally implemented mouse support how we have it on a PC / Mac, a point and click cursor to interact with the on-screen elements. It was a poor experience, or at least, no game changer. The fragmentation and disappointment that an app wasn't designed with your devices form factor / size / function in mind is part of the Android experience, sadly. Diluting the Apple iOS experience in this way would de a disaster. Yes, Apple does take things done poorly and do them better, but key to that is how they do it, and time again, what they choose not to take... e.g. in this case mouse support. It's not by accident, you know.
If you have a laptop and iPad and mouse support is so mission critical, take the laptop as your one device. There you go, no carrying multiples. Quit campaigning for the iPad to be morphed into a laptop, it exists already. Text entry is required to communicate on email, social media, participate on websites like forums, write a letter etc. All things the iPad is designed to do. It's just a physical version of the software keyboard which is good enough for most on the go uses. Your finger is the physical touch input for the interface and the Pencil an entirely different form of input in essence. The screen is only 9", using a keyboard and my iPad on a desk it's not that hard at all to reach up, I don't even lift my hand off the table, it's ideal. Mouse support on iPad is as silly a notion as a touch screen laptop. I bet you're one of those guys who wants that too, huh?
To be honest I already find the iOS experience fragmented too. And it was even in iOS 12 so I doubt that it has anything to do with mouse support.
I have a touch screen laptop for work. I have no issues with it. I do use more the mouse than the touch but I can use both and the existence of touch does not in any way lead to bad user experience when using a mouse.
I can understand that certain people do not want a mouse. No one forces you to use it. The people that want would use it. I don't see any problem with that. And I am sorry but if adding a mouse lead to so many issues in iOS than iOS Developers just suck.
Android fragmentation is not because of the existence of a mouse. It is because different Developers have different UI style views and as a result the system of apps is not consistent. Same happens with iOS (despite Apple working on a common style guide). The moment you allow different Developers to provide apps for the same ecosystem, this will happen. And it has nothing to do with the mouse support.
How do you find it fragmented? It's about as un-fragmented as an OS in the world today can be.
iOS developers don't suck. You've got mouse support today in that form, so what's the issue?
And Android sucks in general on tablets for many reason. I focussed on that one as it was extremely relevant to my point.
Share button for Google apps look one way, for Microsoft another way, for iOS native apps a third way. That is already fragmented. I have one way to open a file in app from Files native app, another way from OneDrive and a third way from another third party apps.
Some app settings are in the apps themselves, another ones are in the main Settings menu of the device. Every app has its own way of exporting data/saving data. That is always confusing for me.
The argument is vice versa. You say that iOS have mouse support would lead to fragmentation. I am saying iOS is already fragmented and if it gets worse because of mouse support is because the Developers are not good enough.
And it has nothing to do with mouse support. Android tablets never gathered popularity. There are no good apps for it, the manufacturers do not focus on the hardware either. Mouse support on Android has never been great deal for me. I do not own Android tablet, only phone. I have never even though about mouse and this support has never impacted my experience with my Android phones.
The focus is on touch, and should stay on touch. Only a minority of people, probably all members of this forum, seriously want mouse support. Thankfully, Apple is only giving it to people who need it, not want it for silly vanity reasons that only take from the experience.
You've got Surface devices, laptops, Android tablets if you want. Go use them if they fit your needs better, but don't blame the iPad or Apple for how poor a job they may or may not do.
one could substitute your request for better keyboard support into this rant and it would read identically.
I’ve heard this argument about how how proper mouse support would somehow “ruin” iOS for years. It’s BS. End of story.
"Pro usage" on a Mac or PC at its core is using things like keyboard shortcuts extensively, my point, quite simply so that you can understand it, was that having this on iPad when paired to a Bluetooth keyboard could really boost productivity for a Pro. That this notion is much more worthy of Apple's time and developers for the benefit it'll bring, so much more so than mouse support.
Ps, just because you say 'end of story' and you think it's BS doesn't make it BS or the end of the story... Internet Forums 101
your extremely narrow and self-centered view of what constitutes “pro” usage is just that. Yours.
my view of pro usage has the mouse and pencil at the center of it. Neither one is right. Simply different.
remember that people said a stylus would ruin iOS as well (in much more visceral terms than how people feel about mouse support). In fact just the opposite has occurred - giving us a perfect case history of what to expect by altering the ui in a major way. The iPad is a better device because of the addition of the pencil. By orders of magnitude.
Just because you don't personally agree, and choose to be willingly blinded to the idea that keyboard are more Pro, doesn't make my viewpoint narrow or self-centered... The difference is, Apple backs and is backing my viewpoint of the keyboard getting better and better support whilst the mouse remains only for those who need it. You remain in a small minority that to date, isn't gaining any traction and is it harming iPad sales or satisfaction? Nope.
The Apple Pencil isn't a stylus, Google some videos of it... FYI nor did it alter the interface..
You are right, it's not rocket science. Using this logic, you should use a laptop instead of expecting Apple to come up with "pro" keyboard shortcuts. After all, it's a touch based interface designed for using your fingers. Why would you possibly carry around a keyboard for it instead of using the right tool for the right job?
Or alternatively, you could realize that an external keyboard is much more usable than a virtual on screen keyboard and speeds up your productivity. You know, like a mouse would.
Regarding ergonomics:
Keyboard-only device= ideal
Touch-only device = ideal
Keyboard and mouse device = good, but still some hand switching
Keyboard and touch device = awkward, gorilla arm
Apple had to depart from touch-only because it’s not good for serious text entry which many people require. But as we know, Apple is adamant about not mixing touch and mouse, except when it comes to accessibility.
Apple could go all keyboard, moving all input to the keyboard when it’s attached, alleviating any need for pointing, but one of the core principles of iOS is an intuitive UX, and doing everything with the keyboard requires too much memorization and practice for the average user. Keyboard support will likely improve, but for most, it won’t be able to completely replace pointing, so I doubt Apple and developers will put in that much effort.
That leaves the current gorilla arm scenario. Due to the compromised situation, I think it’s a legitimate complaint to ask Apple to reverse their stance on mixing touch and mouse. Although I think people tend to forget that no vote is louder than the dollar. Many seem to be voting against themselves.
Also, there is the question that sometimes gets glossed over, which is needs vs wants. I have no doubts that some need the iPad (including myself as someone who needs the pencil), but some may be more frustrated than they need to be because they’re using the device that ticks the “prefer” boxes but not the “must have”. But of course, if one is only talking about preferences, the situation isn’t quite as urgent.
Keyboard-only device= ideal
Touch-only device = ideal
Keyboard and mouse device = good, but still some hand switching
Keyboard and touch device = awkward, gorilla arm
Apple had to depart from touch-only because it’s not good for serious text entry which many people require. But as we know, Apple is adamant about not mixing touch and mouse, except when it comes to accessibility.
Apple could go all keyboard, moving all input to the keyboard when it’s attached, alleviating any need for pointing, but one of the core principles of iOS is an intuitive UX, and doing everything with the keyboard requires too much memorization and practice for the average user. Keyboard support will likely improve, but for most, it won’t be able to completely replace pointing, so I doubt Apple and developers will put in that much effort.
That leaves the current gorilla arm scenario. Due to the compromised situation, I think it’s a legitimate complaint to ask Apple to reverse their stance on mixing touch and mouse. Although I think people tend to forget that no vote is louder than the dollar. Many seem to be voting against themselves.
Also, there is the question that sometimes gets glossed over, which is needs vs wants. I have no doubts that some need the iPad (including myself as someone who needs the pencil), but some may be more frustrated than they need to be because they’re using the device that ticks the “prefer” boxes but not the “must have”. But of course, if one is only talking about preferences, the situation isn’t quite as urgent.
At least I am perfect example of that. I do not have the need for pure tablet use. Like I would not buy tablet for media consumption or web browsing or typing. I have my laptop which offers far better experience. The reason I bought the iPad is the pencil support. So yes I am one of those people that proves that adding the pencil support expands the market. Not sure how many people like me exist but I have the feeling it is not a small group.
Yes better keyboard support would be great, but far better mouse support would also be great - especially for file organisation, photo and video editing.
I’m somewhat the same. I wasn’t interested in iPad until the pencil and bigger 12.9 was released. That was my first iPad. But then I ended up getting an iPad mini after that to basically be my phablet at home (SE when I go out), though it’s far more expendable than my 12.9+pencil which I got mainly for work with the pencil.