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Adobe need some competition!
- Thread starter Nick G
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I'll level with you, I have no idea what that means or the implications of it, I'm just a hobbyist.
I don't really hold it against Adobe that they're the best. They're free to charge whatever they like--if there's not a viable alternative, or if professionals are too invested (time/money/training/etc) in their software, then good for them! For consumers, nobody's forcing you to upgrade. CS2 doesn't do any less because CS3 or CS4 came out.
And honestly, if you're complaining about the cost of the software, try shopping for industry-standard CAD software, etc--a single seat of CATIA can easily run $20k.
(I'll freely grant that professionals have different needs/demands from their software, and may need to upgrade--but every industry has a cost of staying current. Compare to what engineers/architects can have to spend, a few hundred bucks for a upgrade is a pittance.)
And honestly, if you're complaining about the cost of the software, try shopping for industry-standard CAD software, etc--a single seat of CATIA can easily run $20k.
(I'll freely grant that professionals have different needs/demands from their software, and may need to upgrade--but every industry has a cost of staying current. Compare to what engineers/architects can have to spend, a few hundred bucks for a upgrade is a pittance.)
Yes, thats true. But also, please, do not forget, that architects can earn much more money from a single project, also the prices are higher etc.
These are different "industries", it is like comparing apples to oranges, or not?
No, CS2 does less because it's PowerPC only, and modern Apple hardware is intel. CS2 is not going to work under Snow Leopard. CS3 is not supported on Snow Leopard and has had a few reports of some serious bugs. So some of us are being forced to upgrade.
Granted, no one is forcing us to upgrade to Snow Leopard. I still haven't. But I do have a new computer on its way next week which will have SL installed. I'm really hoping to be able to hold out for CS5 before I upgrade. Depends on the bugginess.
Not so. Snow Leopard supports Rosetta, and thus CS2 runs. In fact, I've got Photoshop CS2 running on Snow Leopard on my Macbook Pro right now. There may be some bugs, but nothing awful that I've encountered. And at the end of the day, nobody's forcing your hand to buy new hardware/OS. Heck, my uncle still does all his design work for his custom cabinetry business on a PowerPC 604-based Powermac with OS9. Is it the norm? Of course not, but nobody's forcing him to upgrade.
Besides, (and this is the overarching point)--none of the original capabilities of CS2 have deprecated as a result of CS4 coming out. It still runs on the same hardware/software platforms that it initially did.
Fair point. There are certainly circumstances under which it's a reasonable issue--my main reaction is towards the consumers whose pro software purchases aren't business expenses. (I'm one of them--thus why I'm running CS2
)I am not sure it is. Is the average architecture studio more profitable than a design studio? Just because architects may make a larger commission on a single project, this does not mean that they are more profitable or more able to absorb expensive software costs.
I remember the days when DVD authoring software was $10,000+. I've worked on a Quantel Paintbox, paid $30,000 per seat for early versions of Maya (plus SGI hardware costs) and priced out Flint and Flame systems. Depending on your needs, design software can get plenty expensive. Its all about ROI. The software would not sell if it did not make its investment back in spades.
Software at this level has a limited market, so the company has to recoup their costs. The wider the audience one can sell to, the less you need to charge. So, it is actually the hobby community that keeps our Adobe software inexpensive, as it makes the market larger.
As for Apple coming in and saving the day, I can't see it happening. They shook up the market with software like Final Cut and DVD studio pro and had great success... but lately have turned away from professional tools and are now more focused upon consumers. There are many Final Cut Pro professionals who feel like they have been left holding the bag, not to mention the Shake community. (Apple killed Shake -- a high end compositing system and After Effects competitor -- this summer).
I think the days of Apple coming in and shaking up segments of the creative software industry are done... in the grand scheme of things, the market simply cannot support the competition anymore. So, open source is the best option...
I would be incredibly impressed if a company that a) can't make a decent spreadsheet program (offering more than token functionality) and b) has taken ~20 years to come up with a halfway decent mouse could suddenly produce software to rival Adobe.
Apple is not a software leader in anything other than iTunes, and that is just because they got there first. My Samsung phone's computer media studio has more functionality.
Apple are good for minimal, small applications with basic functionality, with OS X being the only exception (but still not offering anything revolutionary or world-leading).
Ummmmm......
Final Cut Pro
Aperture
Logic
Apple makes very good professional software. I believe you're referring to consumer software (such as the iLife and iWork suites), which is designed to be "minimal, small, with basic functionality."
If Apple were to release anything to compete with Adobe, it would most certainly be professional-grade software. Secondly, they would more than likely purchase existing software and develop it from that (as they have with the aforementioned programs).
Still, it's not very likely they're going to develop a suite to compete with Adobe. Even if they did, it wouldn't be much of a competitor right out of the gate. (like Adobe's InDesign, for instance).
agreed, but Apple's big push into "professional" software seems long past. These programs no longer get the love or development muscle that they used to. Apple simply seems uninterested in staying in the professional market and has turned their attention back to consumer products.
Yes there is:
http://maya-personal-learning-edition.mac.findmysoft.com/
From 2007 so not up-to-date but I would imagine it'd be good enough.
It does look like the current versions are 30-day trials so perhaps since Alias Wavefront were bought out they have changed to a trial version.
It is a shame that Apple have moved more towards targeting consumers rather than professionals but it's making them more money so it's not altogether surprising. One day though, I'd hope that they start to expand their professional range of software.
I've been checking out Stone Design's website and it looks like they have some very nice creative apps available, the main one being Create. I've had a very quick play and it seems easy to use but the the demo doesn't print or save - a 30-day trial would be nice.
They've even got some old NeXTSTEP versions available for purchase!
http://www.stone.com/
agreed...which is exactly why I don't think we're going to see Apple competing against Adobe in the graphic design field.
Wouldn't be surprised to see Apple sell off those products sometime in the future.
Yes there is:
http://maya-personal-learning-edition.mac.findmysoft.com/
From 2007 so not up-to-date but I would imagine it'd be good enough.
It does look like the current versions are 30-day trials so perhaps since Alias Wavefront were bought out they have changed to a trial version.
It is a shame that Apple have moved more towards targeting consumers rather than professionals but it's making them more money so it's not altogether surprising. One day though, I'd hope that they start to expand their professional range of software.
I've been checking out Stone Design's website and it looks like they have some very nice creative apps available, the main one being Create. I've had a very quick play and it seems easy to use but the the demo doesn't print or save - a 30-day trial would be nice.
They've even got some old NeXTSTEP versions available for purchase!
http://www.stone.com/
The link does not work.
thanks for the chuckle...
Aperture, quite frankly, surpasses Photoshop & Lightroom for high-end professional imaging editing... and it is only at version 2.0. I would argue that coupled with Nikon's NIK suite, it is indeed a revolutionary offering as compared to photoshops incrementalist improvements (at a high cost I might add).
I have had a few Samsung phones, and sadly they are no iPhone. Saying that Apple is only the leader because they got their first is not even close to accurate. Apple was the ONLY one that made it easy, and relatively cheap as well... so much so, that even folks who were swiping stuff off Napster started paying for their tunes. Meanwhile the music industry never thought the revenue would be substantial, and instead decided to focus their attention on high profile lawsuits against grandmothers and students. Gee, I think perhaps they were wrong. How about the billions of Aps that have been sold (an industry that didn't even exist a year or so ago)... was that revolutionary enough?
If you love your Samsung, you must love Verizon. They really play so nicely with us mac folks. Want to buy a song? Sure, but be prepared to shell out twice as much on their "store".
Final Cut Pro is pretty much a standard professional ap in the video editing industry.
Apple generally excels at making things simple, and making them work. So much so, that even microsoft admits ripping apple off when building windows 7. Sure there have been some hitches (the hockey puck mouse to name just one), but overall the grass is indeed greener over here...
cheers,
michael
Aperture, quite frankly, surpasses Photoshop & Lightroom for high-end professional imaging editing... and it is only at version 2.0. I would argue that coupled with Nikon's NIK suite, it is indeed a revolutionary offering as compared to photoshops incrementalist improvements (at a high cost I might add).
I have had a few Samsung phones, and sadly they are no iPhone. Saying that Apple is only the leader because they got their first is not even close to accurate. Apple was the ONLY one that made it easy, and relatively cheap as well... so much so, that even folks who were swiping stuff off Napster started paying for their tunes. Meanwhile the music industry never thought the revenue would be substantial, and instead decided to focus their attention on high profile lawsuits against grandmothers and students. Gee, I think perhaps they were wrong. How about the billions of Aps that have been sold (an industry that didn't even exist a year or so ago)... was that revolutionary enough?
If you love your Samsung, you must love Verizon. They really play so nicely with us mac folks. Want to buy a song? Sure, but be prepared to shell out twice as much on their "store".
Final Cut Pro is pretty much a standard professional ap in the video editing industry.
Apple generally excels at making things simple, and making them work. So much so, that even microsoft admits ripping apple off when building windows 7. Sure there have been some hitches (the hockey puck mouse to name just one), but overall the grass is indeed greener over here...
cheers,
michael
Yeah...but they aren't market leaders.
You misunderstood. I was saying that iTunes only has basic functionality, and with the popularity of the iPod and iPod users being forced to use iTunes - that's the only reason why iTunes was even remotely successful.
My Samsung is ok. I'm not a Verizon person, since I don't live in the US. I'm also not anti-Mac, since Macs and Apple are indirectly responsible for paying my salary.
I would never buy songs online from anywhere but amazon, since they are the cheapest where I am and deliver in a format I prefer.
Exactly, and simple just doesn't cut it in the professional software sector.
I think the question of whether Adobe's products represent good value or not is determined by what industry or sector of design you're in.
Being first and foremost a print designer, I think it's fair to say that Adobe CS has done everything it's needed to do for some time now as far as print production is concerned. There is no technology they need to introduce in order to get anything you want into print. Sure they've introduced 'productivity' improvements in most of their upgrades but really, it's usually stuff that could have been accomplished in some other way before.
Web is a different matter. There's stuff on the horizon that will change the way we design stuff, and software needs to accommodate that.
Personally, I went from CS2 Design Premium to CS3 Web Premium, keeping InDesign CS2 and GoLive CS2 up and running - as others have mentioned on here, there was no sensible or reasonable value upgrade path which incorporated both Dreamweaver and InDesign, so I compromised. And you know what? It hasn't made a shred of difference to the way I work. I won't be upgrading to CS4 or 5 or 6 unless my G5 blows up.
I largely agree with the OP - there have been people who have tried to challenge Adobe but even big hitters like Microsoft have been thwarted (I cite XPS as an example).
In the end the challenge or change will come from somewhere unexpected, perhaps a fundamental change in the design or print industry itself will make some other player instantly leap to the top of the tree. I mean, who'd have thought 10 years ago that Apple would end up being the biggest vendor of music in the US? (Not me, I admit).
Being first and foremost a print designer, I think it's fair to say that Adobe CS has done everything it's needed to do for some time now as far as print production is concerned. There is no technology they need to introduce in order to get anything you want into print. Sure they've introduced 'productivity' improvements in most of their upgrades but really, it's usually stuff that could have been accomplished in some other way before.
Web is a different matter. There's stuff on the horizon that will change the way we design stuff, and software needs to accommodate that.
Personally, I went from CS2 Design Premium to CS3 Web Premium, keeping InDesign CS2 and GoLive CS2 up and running - as others have mentioned on here, there was no sensible or reasonable value upgrade path which incorporated both Dreamweaver and InDesign, so I compromised. And you know what? It hasn't made a shred of difference to the way I work. I won't be upgrading to CS4 or 5 or 6 unless my G5 blows up.
I largely agree with the OP - there have been people who have tried to challenge Adobe but even big hitters like Microsoft have been thwarted (I cite XPS as an example).
In the end the challenge or change will come from somewhere unexpected, perhaps a fundamental change in the design or print industry itself will make some other player instantly leap to the top of the tree. I mean, who'd have thought 10 years ago that Apple would end up being the biggest vendor of music in the US? (Not me, I admit).
Actually I hadn't got as far as trying to download it. I just tried and it says 'Downloading' on the web page but you're right, nothing happens.
I did have an old version from about 2002 on my old Power Mac G4 but gave up on it as it seemed like a very unintuitive and complicated interface. Not surprising really.
Going back to my previous post about Stone Design, iMaginator is great fun! Not a Photoshop killer but I think you can get all 17 Stone Design apps for $399 if you are a registered Create user, which seems like good value to me, especially with the free upgrades for life.
Which is exactly why the upgrades should be more about making the software faster, faster, faster... not slower, buggier, with more crap we don't need bolted on.
But I could have said the same thing five years ago. Yet the software is still kludgy and loaded with anger-inducing hickups.
There are decent choices out there for motion graphics and video editing software. And on Mac you've got Final Cut to add to the mix, which I would say is fairly comparative to Adobe's offerings in that front. Windows adds Vegas to the mix, and a few lower-mid end solutions. Adobe will have the corner on the market though for a long time. Heck, photo manipulation has been virtually renamed "photoshoped"