Advice for new Imac for Logic Pro X (home studio)

[DQ11]

Oh boy, you'll fly with a new iMac!

I know...literally anything will be better but I don't want to run into some of the same bottlenecks I would on my 2007 MBP.

5400 RPM HD drive is a no go......512 SSD is a must, which should be extremely noticeable.

I'll actually be able to use Kontakt and other 3rd party plugins and virtual synths, which will feel like christmas for me.

But I want the i7-7700k because I feel it's the only "future proof" cpu that they offer...all the rest will be obsolete when they uprgrade to coffee lake and beyond.

I'm having them install 16 GB so I don't have to worry about that. I'll install up to 64 GB RAM at another time once I get to a point of needing it.

I'd install it myself but RAM prices have risen to a point where the initiall $200 upgrade to 16 gb RAM isn't that much more than what I would pay on Amazon doing it my self. https://www.amazon.com/Genuine-Orig...r=8-1-spons&keywords=27"+imac+2017++ram&psc=1

^ It's $204 for 16 GB. I can get 16 GB for $200 from apple....so that upgrade actually makes sense now.

I doubt I'll ever need to have 100+ tracks but it's good to know the machine can do it if needed.

I'm just hoping that at around 35-45 tracks I can run it with a good amount of plugins and have the fans not ramp up too much and get too loud.

I'm wondering where that treshhold is and it sounds about 35-40% before...Now I'm wondering how much I can do in that initial 40% of Logic Pro X.

 

[pier]

I'd install it myself but RAM prices have risen to a point where the initiall $200 upgrade to 16 gb RAM isn't that much more than what I would pay on Amazon doing it my self

I bought a 5K iMac on January and that was my reasoning as well.

I'm just hoping that at around 35-45 tracks I can run it with a good amount of plugins and have the fans not ramp up too much and get too loud.

That's the thing with the 7700K, it gets hot easily.

I ended up getting the i5 7600K. My reasoning was that if I really needed the i7 it would be better to wait until the coffee or canon lake generation, but I really don't.

I'm super happy with the silent i5. @propower also got it for Logic work. He/she bought the i7 and the i5 iMacs and ended up keeping the i5.

 

[mreg376]

I'd install it myself but RAM prices have risen to a point where the initiall $200 upgrade to 16 gb RAM isn't that much more than what I would pay on Amazon doing it my self.

But you can get 32GB for $311.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B072K5NPRM/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

[DQ11]

But you can get 32GB for $311.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B072K5NPRM/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Yea but I won't need 32GB right now though.
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I bought a 5K iMac on January and that was my reasoning as well.



That's the thing with the 7700K, it gets hot easily.

I ended up getting the i5 7600K. My reasoning was that if I really needed the i7 it would be better to wait until the coffee or canon lake generation, but I really don't.

I'm super happy with the silent i5. @propower also got it for Logic work. He/she bought the i7 and the i5 iMacs and ended up keeping the i5.

Does the i5 do everything you need it to?

 

[mreg376]

That's the thing with the 7700K, it gets hot easily.

I think saying that the i7 "gets hot easily" is not entirely fair. I can run 4K 60fps videos on it without hearing the fan spin up, and when I do manage to push it to the point of higher fan speed it was only momentarily. I'm entirely happy with the i7, as it handles with complete ease most everything that my other machines struggle(d) with.

 

[pier]

Does the i5 do everything you need it to?

Yes, although I admit I have spent most of my time with the iMac doing dev and design work.

As you can see from the Logic benchmarks the 3.4 i5 from 2017 can reproduce 72 tracks. I have the 3.8 i5 and I guess I should be able to get above 80 tracks since this is basically a CPU benchmark.

The 7700K is about 30% faster in multithreaded ops than the i5 3.8 so I guess it should get around 100-110 tracks. That's the best case scenario. In some benchmarks the difference is much smaller. Personally, I don't think the heat and fan noise are worth 30%, but that's just me.

IMO if you are in a position where you really need more CPU than the i5 3.8 you should probably be looking into the Mac Pro, or wait for the next CPU refresh.

I can run 4K 60fps videos on it without hearing the fan spin up

Have you considered that maybe when decoding videos your GPU is actually doing a lot of work?

The 7700K is pretty infamous for its heat spikes and the issue is well documented. Some people reported spikes of +35ºC on non overclocked CPUs when simply opening a program.

Here is an article about this.

I'm sure you can find plenty of more info since it was a matter of great controversy in 2017.

 

[mreg376]

Have you considered that maybe when decoding videos your GPU is actually doing a lot of work?

The 7700K is pretty infamous for its heat spikes and the issue is well documented. Some people reported spikes of +35ºC on non overclocked CPUs when simply opening a program.

Here is an article about this.

I'm sure you can find plenty of more info since it was a matter of great controversy in 2017.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not denying the i7 heat issue history. I considered the issue a long time before making the purchase decision. But based on everything I read I did not believe that the way I use the machine would result in pushing the 17 up to that very often, and that has in fact been the case. At the same time, I wanted the power of the i7 for when I need it, even if that meant some fan noise. And that has worked out too.

I've certainly seen posts saying that doing ANYTHING on the i7 iMac pushed the CPU temps up towards 99 degrees C and had the fan screaming. On the other hand I saw many posts that said such a situation was rare, and I can report now that I'm in the latter group. I simply do not see the fan go above 1200-ish with any routine of the machine, and NEVER when just opening a program. I've seen it happen when playing a full screen 8k 60fps video (or trying to...), which I do rarely, and honestly the fan sound wasn't that bad. So I'm happy with my decision, and would happily recommend the current i7, except maybe to people very sensitive to fan noise who will be using it to edit or play ultra-high resolution high-fps videos or engage in other CPU-full-load tasks on a steady basis. For full quietude they can spend $5,000+ on the iMac Pro...

 

[pier]

Don't get me wrong. I'm not denying the i7 heat issue history. I considered the issue a long time before making the purchase decision. But based on everything I read I did not believe that the way I use the machine would result in pushing the 17 up to that very often, and that has in fact been the case. At the same time, I wanted the power of the i7 for when I need it, even if that meant some fan noise. And that has worked out too.

I've certainly seen posts saying that doing ANYTHING on the i7 iMac pushed the CPU temps up towards 99 degrees C and had the fan screaming. On the other hand I saw many posts that said such a situation was rare, and I can report now that I'm in the latter group. I simply do not see the fan go above 1200-ish with any routine of the machine, and NEVER when just opening a program. I've seen it happen when playing a full screen 8k 60fps video (or trying to...), which I do rarely, and honestly the fan sound wasn't that bad. So I'm happy with my decision, and would happily recommend the current i7, except maybe to people very sensitive to fan noise who will be using it to edit or play ultra-high resolution high-fps videos or engage in other CPU-full-load tasks on a steady basis. For full quietude they can spend $5,000+ on the iMac Pro...

Honestly, it sounds like you really don't need the i7 to begin with.

But hey, if you're happy and satisfied it's the only thing that matters.

 

[mreg376]

Honestly, it sounds like you really don't need the i7 to begin with.

That is possible. But compared to the overall cost of the machine the added $200 was a pittance (?).

 

[pier]

That is possible. But compared to the overall cost of the machine the added $200 was a pittance (?).

It's not really about the money but about heat.

As you can see the i7 7700K can run close to 100ºC at full load on this particular machine.

Of course the iMac cannot dissipate that much heat so it will throttle the CPU (which is a typical thing for Apple machines). Another aspect is that the thermal paste that Apple uses is not great and some people claim that replacing it will lower the temps.

In summary, for $200 extra dollars you get a CPU that is 30% faster but you cannot fully use.

 

[mreg376]

It's not really about the money but about heat.

As you can see the i7 7700K can run close to 100ºC at full load on this particular machine.

Of course the iMac cannot dissipate that much heat so it will throttle the CPU (which is a typical thing for Apple machines). Another aspect is that the thermal paste that Apple uses is not great and some people claim that replacing it will lower the temps.

In summary, for $200 extra dollars you get a CPU that is 30% faster but you cannot fully use.

From what I've read throttling is minimal to non-existent. And in the over a year now of the 2017 i7 release there hasn't been a single report that I've seen of any heat-related problems. While at the high range, the 100 degrees C is within spec. I think that it's mainly a matter of fan noise and a user's sensitivity to it.

 

[rjsounds]

I'd install it myself but RAM prices have risen to a point where the initiall $200 upgrade to 16 gb RAM isn't that much more than what I would pay on Amazon doing it my self. https://www.amazon.com/Genuine-Orig...r=8-1-spons&keywords=27"+imac+2017++ram&psc=1

^ It's $204 for 16 GB. I can get 16 GB for $200 from apple....so that upgrade actually makes sense now.

That upgrade from Apple makes no sense.

Scenario 1:
Purchase iMac with 8GB RAM, buy 16GB from Amazon = 24GB total for $204.

Scenario 2:
Purchase iMac with 16GB RAM = 16GB total for $200.

Why would you not go for scenario 1? Are you not planning to keep the stock 8GB if you purchase extra RAM from Amazon???

 

[pier]

From what I've read throttling is minimal to non-existent. And in the over a year now of the 2017 i7 release there hasn't been a single report that I've seen of any heat-related problems. While at the high range, the 100 degrees C is within spec. I think that it's mainly a matter of fan noise and a user's sensitivity to it.

Here's a guy comparing a 7700K on a hackintosh vs an iMac 5K. He's getting about 10% better results on Geekbench. The guy is a bit insufferable, but he is usually on point.

 

[mreg376]

Haha. Yes, I've seen that. I thought about a Hackintosh, but who has the friggin' time and patience. Before I went to my 2007 iMac, I was a Windows person, and spent too many hours on the floor with a flashlight looking into my PC box. And after I bought the 2007 iMac, I was sorry a couple of years later that I did not get the fastest CPU. Hence my i7...

 

[pier]

Haha. Yes, I've seen that. I thought about a Hackintosh, but who has the friggin' time and patience. Before I went to my 2007 iMac, I was a Windows person, and spent too many hours on the floor with a flashlight looking into my PC box. And after I bought the 2007 iMac, I was sorry a couple of years later that I did not get the fastest CPU. Hence my i7...

Yeah, but my point is not about getting a hackintosh, but that probably the 7700K is not fully used in the 5K iMac.

It would be interesting to compare the 7700K running on a Windows PC and Bootcamp.