there are many alternatives... a good place to start
https://www.notebookcheck.net/Laptop_Search.8223.0.html#results
with reviews.
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After 12 Years, Apple Pushed Me Out
- Thread starter infiniteentropy
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there are many alternatives... a good place to start
https://www.notebookcheck.net/Laptop_Search.8223.0.html#results
with reviews.
Another option... people are buying phones less often because the new phones actually last a lot longer. The improvements (camera, CPU, screen size, cellular speeds) used to be much greater between generations. Now, everyone with a 6S or later has pretty decent specs in all of those areas.
Of course the new ones are better and faster, and all that, but if the old one is fine, then why upgrade? Honestly, if you did a poll for most normal people, I would imagine that "new battery", "replacing a phone with a broken screen", and "due for an upgrade" are the reasons that people upgrade.
Same thing with laptops & ipads. If the one you have is fine, most people will just keep what they have. I have a 2015 mid-spec 15 MBP that shows no signs of slowing down any time soon, so I'm not likely to replace it anytime soon.
Completely agree with OP
First Mac was an iBook G4. I was so happy when I got it, I couldn't believe it. I evangelized apple to everyone. iPhones, AppleTV, Macbook Pros, iPads, etc.
The magic is gone. I'm stuck with apple b/c I'm in their ecosystem, and their stance on privacy. Still, I fear every update they bring will screw something up I really like, and replace it with something worse (iPhoto, Dashboard, etc.)
First Mac was an iBook G4. I was so happy when I got it, I couldn't believe it. I evangelized apple to everyone. iPhones, AppleTV, Macbook Pros, iPads, etc.
The magic is gone. I'm stuck with apple b/c I'm in their ecosystem, and their stance on privacy. Still, I fear every update they bring will screw something up I really like, and replace it with something worse (iPhoto, Dashboard, etc.)
First reason I started thinking about switching to Linux was High Sierra. I wasn’t impressed with the APFS because it was clearly beta level and not fit for release. APFS in Mojave was much better but it looks like Apple will not fix Mojave sleep bugs (several threads in Mac Pro forum).
Second reason is that none of the current Macs are suitable for my needs. Mac Mini is closest but I detest soldered SSD, if it breaks whole Mac is bricked because of the T2 chip.
Third reason is that Apples software quality is taken a nosedive in recent years. After Apple rewrote iWork it took them over 3 years to include most of the features which were in iWork 09. Photos is a mess, iTunes in Mojave is very buggy (how hard is it to play songs without skipping them?!!!) and Apples idea of improvement is to stick everything from iOS to macOS regardless if it makes sense or not.
After Catalina removed 32-bit support I have four options:
1. Pay hundreds of € to update all my software and hope like hell that Apple releases a real Mac Mini. Not likely given their priorities at the moment.
2. Build a hackintosh and update my all software. Given Apples recent security related decisions I am sceptical if this will be long term option.
3. Switch to Linux and purchase replacement software.
4. Switch to Windows and purchase replacement software. After fighting with Windows every day at work this isn’t really a option.
Currently I am seriously considering option 3, only problem is that most Linux distributions are appalling mess of Unix and Windows conventions and poorly implemented user interface. Pop! os seems most promising at moment. I have also considered FreeBSD but I am not yet certain.
Second reason is that none of the current Macs are suitable for my needs. Mac Mini is closest but I detest soldered SSD, if it breaks whole Mac is bricked because of the T2 chip.
Third reason is that Apples software quality is taken a nosedive in recent years. After Apple rewrote iWork it took them over 3 years to include most of the features which were in iWork 09. Photos is a mess, iTunes in Mojave is very buggy (how hard is it to play songs without skipping them?!!!) and Apples idea of improvement is to stick everything from iOS to macOS regardless if it makes sense or not.
After Catalina removed 32-bit support I have four options:
1. Pay hundreds of € to update all my software and hope like hell that Apple releases a real Mac Mini. Not likely given their priorities at the moment.
2. Build a hackintosh and update my all software. Given Apples recent security related decisions I am sceptical if this will be long term option.
3. Switch to Linux and purchase replacement software.
4. Switch to Windows and purchase replacement software. After fighting with Windows every day at work this isn’t really a option.
Currently I am seriously considering option 3, only problem is that most Linux distributions are appalling mess of Unix and Windows conventions and poorly implemented user interface. Pop! os seems most promising at moment. I have also considered FreeBSD but I am not yet certain.
Despite the fact that I actually work with Linux on servers every day I would not recommend it to anyone as a desktop. It's for enthusiasts who are willing to treat it like a project to ensure it runs the way you want, constantly having to delve way deeper into the OS just to make things work than any other OS.
If that is you then great go for it, if you want an OS that just works then stay away from it. Pop! os is an Ubuntu-based system, Ubuntu is Debian based. They are all just skins where one does it slightly different from the others but they all have the same underlying issues you will need to fight through to keep it running smoothly depending on your needs.
I'm in a similar position. I have a 2010 iMac that will probably never be updated. I see no reason to buy a computer that ships with a completely broken OS. Current MacBook line is off the table, too unreliable. Mac Pro is not for me. Mac Mini is decent but graphics aren't great and I don't wish to return to that form factor. iMac is still decent, but again I don't want Catalina or even Mojave.
In the mobile space, Apple fares a bit better. I cannot stand Android. There is some decent hardware, but even after using it for a while, Android is not for me. Not that iOS is any more stable with its current issues, but at least the UI is cleaner. Still running iOS 10 on a 6S without many issues, I don't use my smartphone much and so it will stay where it is. The 11 Pro was tempting for the camera, but I resisted. Not an iPad person myself, other than using them as a picture frame.
Mac is stagnant. I rely on the Mac platform. But it's become a weird beast in the past few years, even going back to Lion. Until Apple gets some people in who care about quality control and about the desktop platform, I may have to look elsewhere when I am forced to upgrade work machines.
It's too bad really. I remember in the 2000s that Apple was my favorite company in the world. I loved buying a new iPod or when I'd get a shiny white iMac set up in my office. OS X felt special. But those days are sadly over. As @Fried Chicken put it, the magic is gone.
In the mobile space, Apple fares a bit better. I cannot stand Android. There is some decent hardware, but even after using it for a while, Android is not for me. Not that iOS is any more stable with its current issues, but at least the UI is cleaner. Still running iOS 10 on a 6S without many issues, I don't use my smartphone much and so it will stay where it is. The 11 Pro was tempting for the camera, but I resisted. Not an iPad person myself, other than using them as a picture frame.
Mac is stagnant. I rely on the Mac platform. But it's become a weird beast in the past few years, even going back to Lion. Until Apple gets some people in who care about quality control and about the desktop platform, I may have to look elsewhere when I am forced to upgrade work machines.
It's too bad really. I remember in the 2000s that Apple was my favorite company in the world. I loved buying a new iPod or when I'd get a shiny white iMac set up in my office. OS X felt special. But those days are sadly over. As @Fried Chicken put it, the magic is gone.
I posted this in another thread, but it seems to perhaps fit more here:
We’ve been mostly a Mac household since Apple’s Intel switch, but it’s been slowly reverting in later years, as Windows has gotten better and better, and Mac has only gotten more and more expensive.
I haven’t bought new Mac hardware in the last five years, until I just recently got an old Mac Pro to replace a late 2014 Mac Mini that was atrocious to use even on the day of purchase (I regret never returning it, our previous Mac Mini felt faster). My wife’s aging MacBook Air will most likely be replaced by a Windows laptop. Apart from the insane hardware prices (which honestly, I used to justify with MagSafe, sleep light, battery meters and such small, but unique features which are now gone, replaced instead with keyboard problems and the company in second place when it comes to graphics performance), the fact that OpenGL is deprecated and 32-bit applications outright banned, plus that the application selection on MacOS is a wasteland compared to Windows (and the “delicious generation” is long dead) leaves little reason to stay with Apple.
I will use the old Mac Pro for some casual app development and mail, but nothing more. Apple lost the desktop wars, and the new Mac Pro plus the notarization and latest “security” features show it (and any future ARM laptop will be the final nail in the coffin).
Apple has grown into what Microsoft was two decades ago and is now struggling with the same quality problems, even. Remember when the Safari team was a dozen people and outperformed the Internet Explorer team which had thousands of engineers? Well, guess what Apple has these days. Catalina seems to even be their Vista:
We’ve been mostly a Mac household since Apple’s Intel switch, but it’s been slowly reverting in later years, as Windows has gotten better and better, and Mac has only gotten more and more expensive.
I haven’t bought new Mac hardware in the last five years, until I just recently got an old Mac Pro to replace a late 2014 Mac Mini that was atrocious to use even on the day of purchase (I regret never returning it, our previous Mac Mini felt faster). My wife’s aging MacBook Air will most likely be replaced by a Windows laptop. Apart from the insane hardware prices (which honestly, I used to justify with MagSafe, sleep light, battery meters and such small, but unique features which are now gone, replaced instead with keyboard problems and the company in second place when it comes to graphics performance), the fact that OpenGL is deprecated and 32-bit applications outright banned, plus that the application selection on MacOS is a wasteland compared to Windows (and the “delicious generation” is long dead) leaves little reason to stay with Apple.
I will use the old Mac Pro for some casual app development and mail, but nothing more. Apple lost the desktop wars, and the new Mac Pro plus the notarization and latest “security” features show it (and any future ARM laptop will be the final nail in the coffin).
Apple has grown into what Microsoft was two decades ago and is now struggling with the same quality problems, even. Remember when the Safari team was a dozen people and outperformed the Internet Explorer team which had thousands of engineers? Well, guess what Apple has these days. Catalina seems to even be their Vista:
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The prompt thing is annoying, but it's a one-time thing. I'd rather get prompted than not the first time
The OP is not that far apart from my intro to Apple. I had to put Microsoft's newest OS on the bench to test at work (Vista) and after 2 days I was so disgusted that I opted to change over my personal home set up to Mac. I admit I enjoyed the novel feeling and a sense of community. It was not as geek as the OS/2 community but none the less, I liked Mac and didn't mind the "Apple tax" on some items. I used to lament on how Apple no longer cares about its more devoted fans and then much later realized, it wasn't that they didn't care it was that they didn't need them any longer. We were disposable as a new breed of users came in shortly after iPhone that would set a new market position for Apple which they worked hard to engage and dropped much of their computer efforts as they could get away with while still exploiting the "Apple" reputation.
While I have gone through iMac, Mini, early Mac Pro and a few generations of iPhones, I now mostly use an older Macbook Pro and a Samsung s8+ phone to get things done and for media the Nvidia Shield TV comes in quite handy. Apple has changed enough that it isn't a deal for me and as important all the 'fun' is gone.
While I have gone through iMac, Mini, early Mac Pro and a few generations of iPhones, I now mostly use an older Macbook Pro and a Samsung s8+ phone to get things done and for media the Nvidia Shield TV comes in quite handy. Apple has changed enough that it isn't a deal for me and as important all the 'fun' is gone.
do you feel good now? Impressed the other children have you?
I have been buying all Apple since 1989 - almost every generation of Mac Pro desktops (or equal) along the way - that is until 2013. Once I they announced that soldered-up boat-anchor trashcan Mac Pro with no internal storage and imagining all the cables and peripherals I would have to buy and string everywhere, I quickly went out and bought one of the last 2012 Mac Pro 5,1's out there - it is still my main machine and it has been a dream until the OS made it obsolete.
Since I live hundreds of miles from the nearest Apple Store, I have to be able to upgrade components on my own - and the 2012 tower was perfect for that! Now they have essentially eliminated the Mac Pro for the foreseeable future. Of course they are releasing that Enterprise tower soon and "calling" it a Mac Pro, but that is for a much higher end market (not for the Independent Contractor Designer like myself such as the 2012 model and before). They say that the iMac Pro takes the place of the segment I was in, but I already have very expensive monitors that I use for pre-press and don't need/want an all-in-one computer. At first, I thought maybe I would buy a Mac Pro and just hide the unit away somewhere, but once again EVERYTHING IS SOLDERED IN - too much to pay for a disposable device. My Brother has purchased 3 iMacs in the past and the screens went out on all three and he never could get them fixed properly (so he already left Apple).
Similar thing happened to my laptop when they introduced the 2016 MacBook Pro with USB-C - me and two other friends immediately ordered the older 2015 models which had all the ports built in for our existing peripherals and workflows.
Until Apple reintroduces devices I can swap out components on my own (like I always used to do until 2013) - no more Apple Computer purchases for me. What would have been great is the new Mac Pro with about half the expansion for about $3500-$4000 base (for me) - no such luck!
Since I live hundreds of miles from the nearest Apple Store, I have to be able to upgrade components on my own - and the 2012 tower was perfect for that! Now they have essentially eliminated the Mac Pro for the foreseeable future. Of course they are releasing that Enterprise tower soon and "calling" it a Mac Pro, but that is for a much higher end market (not for the Independent Contractor Designer like myself such as the 2012 model and before). They say that the iMac Pro takes the place of the segment I was in, but I already have very expensive monitors that I use for pre-press and don't need/want an all-in-one computer. At first, I thought maybe I would buy a Mac Pro and just hide the unit away somewhere, but once again EVERYTHING IS SOLDERED IN - too much to pay for a disposable device. My Brother has purchased 3 iMacs in the past and the screens went out on all three and he never could get them fixed properly (so he already left Apple).
Similar thing happened to my laptop when they introduced the 2016 MacBook Pro with USB-C - me and two other friends immediately ordered the older 2015 models which had all the ports built in for our existing peripherals and workflows.
Until Apple reintroduces devices I can swap out components on my own (like I always used to do until 2013) - no more Apple Computer purchases for me. What would have been great is the new Mac Pro with about half the expansion for about $3500-$4000 base (for me) - no such luck!
I'm having the same debate and currently leaning towards leaving Macs. The current MacBook Pro lineup is too unreliable, and too pricey for what it is or way under-specced for how much it costs. Maybe the 16" Pro will fix the unreliability, but I can only see it making the pricing problem worse. Apple have always charged a premium over Windows rivals, but since launching the TouchBar models their pricing seems to have become totally detached from the market reality. It's a shame as my current 2015 is my favourite computer ever, but the Surface laptop 3, Dell XPS and HP X360 are just more compelling computers for literally £1,000 less.
There's always one
I have been an Apple user since way before there even was an iPod, and have been all-in on the ecosystem for about 25 years. I am not ready to jump ship yet as I don’t see viable alternatives, but for the first time ever I see a real need to start preparing for it, for lots of different reasons.
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You did not click the Twitter thread I linked.
Just today, I read from some pretty prominent developers that this is 100% Apple's fault, as they didn't give developers enough (or any) tools to avoid some of these prompts.
Our IT guy at work said something like this before he banned MacOS outright from our workplace: Apple will never, ever be able to get back to "it just works" because they've grown too large and unwieldy, and it will just get worse the more succesful they get.
My office has done the same, everyone that joins gets to choose their own laptop, Mac was removed earlier in the year, reliability was the big issue, I posted the stats from IT in another thread, they just got so fed up with the breakdowns.
Funny that you and @eobet both mentioned that. Before I left Apple myself, our IT department informed us, in no uncertain terms, that MacBook Pros were no longer an option for our work-provided machine. At the time I was upset and rolled my eyes, but they were right after all.
Sold the iPhone and got a dumb phone and haven't regretted a moment of that and it's been months now. Roku Streaming Stick+ got Apple TV app today and I went out and bought 2 and now the Apple TV's are gone and I don't have to deal with that TERRIBLE remote that my wife and daughter constantly had problems with but tolerated gracefully, bless their hearts.
My only remaining Apple product as I type this is an iPod Touch that I bought and is loaded with all my music for offline listening when I go out fishing or something else as remote. The iPod Touch also lets me see iCloud shared calendars too so it'll probably hang out for a while. But, that's my last piece of Apple gear.
Lenovo ThinkPad series gives the best performance/industrial design to dollar ratio. That's what I use for things that don't run on my mac. Like Engineering domain-specific applications that cost like 10 years of my rent each to buy...
I do agree with lack of repair-ability going down, and Apple probably spearheads that once..
There would be pc laptops the same, but Apple takes the cakes for it.
They really don't the user to "mess up" their hard work. Its not your computer,, its still theirs.. You just pay for the use of it.
Arguably, you cold say the same ting as a whole, but lack of repair-ability gets the top vote on this.
If it was something smaller like an Intel NUC, i would understand, but a bloody laptop ?
Thank god for byapsses .. The screws sets overcome this.. so the goal is really the same either way.
There would be pc laptops the same, but Apple takes the cakes for it.
They really don't the user to "mess up" their hard work. Its not your computer,, its still theirs.. You just pay for the use of it.
Arguably, you cold say the same ting as a whole, but lack of repair-ability gets the top vote on this.
If it was something smaller like an Intel NUC, i would understand, but a bloody laptop ?
Thank god for byapsses .. The screws sets overcome this.. so the goal is really the same either way.