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Alder Lake discussion
- Thread starter maflynn
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I see these are apparently benchmark higher then Apples new chips, although they consume massive amounts of power, still in a desktop they’ll be more powerful, if Apple put the same SOC in the new bigger iMac as the MacBook Pro then potentially you can buy a more powerful PC for less, again. Depending on pricing of course.
For me, I believe it when I see it in retail units.
And from all the benchmarks, it barely beats Ryzen, with a lot more power consumption.
This is basically intended for benchmarks geeks and youtubers to make a big deal the sligh percentage increase over the competitors.
Having said that, 11th gen intel is a good upgrade over 10th gen, and I'm sure this 12th gen will also be an improvement.
And from all the benchmarks, it barely beats Ryzen, with a lot more power consumption.
This is basically intended for benchmarks geeks and youtubers to make a big deal the sligh percentage increase over the competitors.
Having said that, 11th gen intel is a good upgrade over 10th gen, and I'm sure this 12th gen will also be an improvement.
I'm kinda compelled to upgrade to 12900k, but the prices of motherboard and ddr5(and availability) are just crazy.
I'd rather keep 9900k and wait for AMD update & perhaps 13th Intel.
I'd rather keep 9900k and wait for AMD update & perhaps 13th Intel.
Was entertaining the idea of building a system with $400 12700k but ITX Z690 motherboard is $290+ which puts it higher than $150 B550-I with $500 AMD 5900x which is all-around better CPU. 10700k is on sale for $150 but, again, motherboard pricing makes the package not so attractive.
I decided to split the machine I'm using for flight and racing sims, had a look at Alder Lake and passed. Too expensive and power hungry. Microcenter has 5800x for $320, had already old B450 mobo lying around, easy choice. I mean I don't mind paying if there is substantial advantage, just got maxed out 14 MBP, this seems like not worth it. Plus it forces you to Win11 to make core scheduler work.
Folks, I am happy to report that macOS works on Alder Lake...
This is a screenshot of my system on Big Sur from earlier this week, which successfully booted into macOS.
Mine was probably the 2nd or 3rd known system to work on the new Alder Lake platform with a special version of Opencore in the hackintosh community after over half a day of configuring and testing. As I understand it, the Opencore team is now actively working on enabling Alder Lake support as a result of our efforts.
This is a screenshot of my system on Big Sur from earlier this week, which successfully booted into macOS.
Mine was probably the 2nd or 3rd known system to work on the new Alder Lake platform with a special version of Opencore in the hackintosh community after over half a day of configuring and testing. As I understand it, the Opencore team is now actively working on enabling Alder Lake support as a result of our efforts.
I have been around long enough to have seen all the limitations in the PC world. (Anybody here remember the gripes about the brand new processor, called a Pentium, that was actually slower than the 486 it was supposed to replace?)
First it was memory. Never had enough, it cost a fortune, and even if you could buy it, the processor wouldn't support more or the motherboard was full already.
Then, hard drives just couldn't keep up with needs. We were always offloading something to floppy to make a little room to get that new program installed.
The next processor was eagerly awaited and with no doubt that it was a vast improvement over the last.
GPUs? First none, then console graphics, then memory mapped images, crude accelerators and all the way up to ridiculously prices cards you can't even buy now.
To compile a Linux kernel used to take an hour on the hottest hardware I could buy. Now, it is finished before I return with another cup of coffee.
So, we come to today. I still like new hardware, having a loaded M1 Mini and a pair of Linux boxes with hot cores - one Intel and the other Amd. When the M1 SuperDuper ProExtreme Mini comes out, I will no doubt purchase one.
But...
In honest moments, even though I consider myself a power user, I doubt that I use ten percent of the capability of the machines I have now. Anything hotter, from any of the three, will just gain bragging rights and not need, Unless, of course some needed app appears that can actually use all the horsepower.
That being said, I have little doubt that I will yank the 4 core whatever-it-is out of my Intel tower and replace it with the new Alder Lake. Just because old nerds never die, they just fall asleep in the floor with parts scattered everywhere.
I just built a new desktop a month or so ago, and I prior to purchasing the components I heavily weighed whether I should hold off for Alder lake. Ultimately I opted to go with 11th Gen i7, because I assumed that the first rollout of Alder lake was going to come with a price premium - and while the CPUs themselves are priced competitively, the DDR5 memory and motherboards are very expensive. Then there's the fact early adopters are on the bleeding edge - something that I wasn't all that comfortable with.
We've already seen that many older games with DRM are having issues with Alderlake given design of the P and E cores.
My usage is such that I don't need a computer powerful enough to computer the mass of the universe but rather something that can handle basic productivity apps and playing games
Actually it can.
Here's some background to my test Z690 system.
It is a Asus Z690 Prime P D4 with Intel Core i9 12900K Alder Lake chip.
The system has 16GB of 3200Mhz Corsair DDR4 RAM and has been
set to run on all 16 cores (8 performance and 8 efficiency cores on).
Hyperthreading is disabled, XMP is enabled.
Here are some of the test results so far:
(under Windows 10, all cores enabled plus hyperthreading and XMP)
(under Big Sur 11.3)
(Windows CPU-Z score Intel i9-12900K vs AMD Ryzen 5950X)
Don't forget this is only the start as it is using DDR4 RAM. On DDR5 based Alder Lakes, the Geekbench score is much higher and has gotten to over 18000 points (reported by Gizmodo), beating the M1 Max at 12,000 points.
I agree. I was in the same boat as you, feeling exactly the same way. I was worried about the DRM/software incompatibilities etc. of Alder Lake and thought the worst of the worst.I just built a new desktop a month or so ago, and I prior to purchasing the components I heavily weighed whether I should hold off for Alder lake. Ultimately I opted to go with 11th Gen i7, because I assumed that the first rollout of Alder lake was going to come with a price premium - and while the CPUs themselves are priced competitively, the DDR5 memory and motherboards are very expensive. Then there's the fact early adopters are on the bleeding edge - something that I wasn't all that comfortable with.
We've already seen that many older games with DRM are having issues with Alderlake given design of the P and E cores.
My usage is such that I don't need a computer powerful enough to computer the mass of the universe but rather something that can handle basic productivity apps and playing games
But now that I've 'jumped on' the Alder Lake platform, tested and tried it out I've seen what it can do, and I have to say I am impressed and my view is: there's no going back. The performance of Alder Lake is brilliant, and compatibility seems even better than Ryzen on macOS. Intel is finished with the older x86 Skylake platform, and they are never going to release another one like it. They are right to go forward with a new design. It is all P/E Alder Lake-based type builds from now on so we'd better get used to it.
You'd be surprised but there are a lot more configuration options available for the Alder Lake cores than we've been told in the papers. In the BIOS you can set the cores to run pretty much however you wish, including core ratio speeds, whether to switch on hyperthreading for each core and which ones to switch on or off (P or E cores). Not forgetting the option to enable/disable AVX-2, AVX-512 and the feature of OCTVB which can boost system speeds tremendously.
Came across list of affected games by Windows 11 or 10 updated as of 11/12/2021. Doesn't look so bad.
https://www.intel.com/content/www/u...8261/processors/intel-core-processors.html#oo
https://www.intel.com/content/www/u...8261/processors/intel-core-processors.html#oo
Going to get the ball rolling on a 12700k build since I found a decent Asrock Z690M-ITX/ax mobo with Intel 2.5Gb LAN and WIFI 6E with DDR4 support and hopefully priced similar to $150-200 B550 ITX mobo with similar feature set.
Bought:
Cooler Master NR200 case ($88.99 Amazon)
Crucial 32GB (16GBx2) DDR4-3200 CL16 ($118.99 Amazon)
Corsair SF600 PSU ($104.99 Amazon using $110 gift card for $100)
Need to buy:
Intel 12700K CPU ($399.99 Micro Center or $299.99 at Brooklyn location)
Noctua NH-U12A CPU cooler ($109.95 Amazon)
Noctua LGA1700 bracket ($7.90 Amazon)
Asrock Z690M-ITX/ax mobo (hopefully Micro Center for $20 off mobo + CPU combo)
Windows 11 Pro key (~$15)
Already have spares:
2TB NVMe SSD and 14TB HDD
Noctua NH-D15 SE-AM4 CPU cooler (heat pipes are a little too tall for case so either have to leave side panel off, drill holes or go with different cooler)
dGPU or can use iGPU
11/23/2021 update: Asrock reported that due to logistics, motherboard won't arrive in the US until 2nd or 3rd week of December. Also, 12700k price crept up to $450 from low of $300-400.
Bought:
Cooler Master NR200 case ($88.99 Amazon)
Crucial 32GB (16GBx2) DDR4-3200 CL16 ($118.99 Amazon)
Corsair SF600 PSU ($104.99 Amazon using $110 gift card for $100)
Need to buy:
Intel 12700K CPU ($399.99 Micro Center or $299.99 at Brooklyn location)
Noctua NH-U12A CPU cooler ($109.95 Amazon)
Noctua LGA1700 bracket ($7.90 Amazon)
Asrock Z690M-ITX/ax mobo (hopefully Micro Center for $20 off mobo + CPU combo)
Windows 11 Pro key (~$15)
Already have spares:
2TB NVMe SSD and 14TB HDD
dGPU or can use iGPU
11/23/2021 update: Asrock reported that due to logistics, motherboard won't arrive in the US until 2nd or 3rd week of December. Also, 12700k price crept up to $450 from low of $300-400.
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12th gen mobile chips are out!! Looks like the performance per watt is still far behind M1 Pro/Max. But the pure performance at high wattage is better. I like less power consuming and cool Macbook Pro better as a laptop, but I wouldn’t mind the performance of 12th gen desktop replacement windows machine either!
I gotta sell my razer and get 12th gen!
I gotta sell my razer and get 12th gen!
i5-12400 ($180 at Micro Center) overclocked is great bang for the buck plus no E-cores so not limited to Windows 11 but also works with 10. Only thing is waiting for budget motherboards with external clock generator plus DDR4 support (~$90 for Crucial 32GB DDR4-3200) to show up.
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Is there any performance related reason to stick with Windows 10? I've been a little disappointed with some of the rough edges in 11, but figure MS will iron them out in time. It's certainly feels just as snappy, but I'm also never up against the edges of my hardware either.
It's more personal preference but general rule of thumb is more mature product has fewer issues/bugs. Windows 11 scheduler is required for Alder Lake E-cores but 10 can be used if E-cores are disabled or don't come with like the i5-12400. For me, I tend to prefer 10 for desktop and 11 for touch devices otherwise they're pretty close.
I went for a 12700K and Asus Z690I. The motherboard price was stupid at $440, but I got the i7 for $300 at Microcenter over the holiday. Thoroughly impressed by the performance and stability. Also doesn't run particularly hot which is great for the small form factor build I have.
Dual Core Alder Lake Celeron Benchmarks
Yes sir I want to get in to contact with you for sure.
I tried my hand in getting mine to work several months back with no joy so I called it until someone else with more knowledge and willpower could get it done.
Fantastic job.
I have a 12900KS, delidded, that is a fairly high scoring chip, possibly silicon lottery level, it would do 5.7+ stable on 2 cores on water.
Not getting super in depth on all of it but, having a dual boot with OpenCore possibility would be fantastic at my home desk.
Again fantastic work and accomplishment, thank you.
I have to admit when I was wrong. I was harping on Intel for Scalderlake or Alderlake saying that is was going to overheat and that the big-little architecture was a joke on Windows. I have to admit I was mostly wrong. It is not just higher frequencies and more cores. Alder Lake is a genuine improvement. Now it is still no where near as power efficient and battery friendly as the Apple Silicon but it is certainly going in the right direction.
I bought a Samsung GalaxyBook2 360-not pro and a MS Surface AMD Ryzen edition. Both were on sale at the same price and I wanted to compare and decide on an ultra portable as a secondary laptop to my Mac. I am deciding between the two and will return one of them. I really like Surface products in general but the Laptop 4 is really showing it's age in design and hardware.
So the mid range Intel i7 1255u is the processor in my ultra thin Samsung. It is a decacore processor with 12 threads. It has only 2 performance cores and 8 efficiency cores so I was not expecting much. I ran a series of benchmarks between the AMD Ryzen 4650u and 1255u. Now I know a lot of people will say you need to test the 5600u but the difference between the two is negligible. The newer 6000 series may be better but most laptops still aren't shipping with those and maybe a MS Surface laptop 5 will have them but by that time I will be priced out. I can only afford surface on sale.Lol
So the Intel 1255u in a very thin and light laptop with limited cooling gets a GB 5 score of 1650 single core and 7500 multicore which in my opinion is pretty impressive. It does heat up and ramp up the fans to do so but so does AMD. Obviously for efficiency and heat M architecture still has a major advantage but Intel is catching up. Hopefully as they improve their process node temps will come down a bit but the big-little seems to work well. This little laptop packs a serious punch. Maybe it is not as fast as a Macbook Air with M1 but it is close and for the same price you get double the ram and double the ssd. Battery life is pretty good as well.
So I just wanted to admit when I am wrong and say sorry to Intel. If anyone wants a thin and light windows laptop with an sAmoled touchscreen, decent build quality, fast processor and decent build quality Samsung is getting pretty competitive lately. I would wait for sales because at full price the value is not as good.
I bought a Samsung GalaxyBook2 360-not pro and a MS Surface AMD Ryzen edition. Both were on sale at the same price and I wanted to compare and decide on an ultra portable as a secondary laptop to my Mac. I am deciding between the two and will return one of them. I really like Surface products in general but the Laptop 4 is really showing it's age in design and hardware.
So the mid range Intel i7 1255u is the processor in my ultra thin Samsung. It is a decacore processor with 12 threads. It has only 2 performance cores and 8 efficiency cores so I was not expecting much. I ran a series of benchmarks between the AMD Ryzen 4650u and 1255u. Now I know a lot of people will say you need to test the 5600u but the difference between the two is negligible. The newer 6000 series may be better but most laptops still aren't shipping with those and maybe a MS Surface laptop 5 will have them but by that time I will be priced out. I can only afford surface on sale.Lol
So the Intel 1255u in a very thin and light laptop with limited cooling gets a GB 5 score of 1650 single core and 7500 multicore which in my opinion is pretty impressive. It does heat up and ramp up the fans to do so but so does AMD. Obviously for efficiency and heat M architecture still has a major advantage but Intel is catching up. Hopefully as they improve their process node temps will come down a bit but the big-little seems to work well. This little laptop packs a serious punch. Maybe it is not as fast as a Macbook Air with M1 but it is close and for the same price you get double the ram and double the ssd. Battery life is pretty good as well.
So I just wanted to admit when I am wrong and say sorry to Intel. If anyone wants a thin and light windows laptop with an sAmoled touchscreen, decent build quality, fast processor and decent build quality Samsung is getting pretty competitive lately. I would wait for sales because at full price the value is not as good.