Alright....getting an entry level dslr....Canon Vs Nikon. Help

[Joeytpg]

I'm getting a dslr...... I've been a canon guy so far.......I gotta admit I like the Nikon D40 (small, compact, nice.) Which Canon is the D40 competitor?


the Canon EOS Rebel XT ?


now, Lenses:

I want to get a good wide angle lens, what's the "ratio" and technical specs? Because I wanna get a "kit" but I don't know what to order.



I was thinking about getting a Powershot G9, but f*ck it..... I'll go dslr... I still have my old powershot SD300 for parties.

 

[firestarter]

The Canon Rebel XS is new, and is their latest value DSLR. Looks pretty good:

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canoneos1000d/

I have the Canon XTi, and 4 months ago switched to Nikon with a D300. I haven't sold my Canon stuff yet though - and I think that being an owner of both makes me pretty neutral!!

Personally I would go with Canon every time at that price point. Here's the reason:

You get your DSLR and a zoom lens to go with it. It takes great photos, and you're happy you upgraded from a point and shoot. Everything is good, but when you see other people's photos on flickr, you can see you're missing something.

The second lens you buy for a DSLR should be a 50mm f1.8 lens. This will cost from 85 to 105 bucks (the Canon is cheaper). This lens has a really wide aperture (f1.8) which means that you can:
- Take awesome photos indoors or in low light situations without using a flash. You'll be using the natural lighting, and your photos will look way better than any point and shoot.
- Blur the background on your pictures. The wider the aperture on your lens (f1.8 is good), the more selective the focussing is. If you focus on a person or object nearby, the background will not be in focus. This makes pictures look extremely professional, and makes the person/foreground seem to 'pop out' of the picture.

Nikon has historically made 'dumb' autofocus lenses. They sold cameras with motors in them... the camera twists a screw thread in the lens, to make it focus. Canon has always sold lenses with the motor in the lens. The camera just has to send a signal to the lens. Now Nikon is also making lenses with motors in them.

The problem here is that Nikon's cameras under $1500 no longer have this autofocus motor in the camera (it's a cost cutting thing). So the D40, 40x, 60 etc. CANNOT AUTOFOCUS any of the old lenses, including the 50mm lens. You're OK once you get to the D300 etc. (which is why I bought it) - but I wouldn't recommend any of the lower price Nikons at the moment, as the lens selection for them is just too limited.

[Edit - the D80 at $750 or $950 with a lens can also autofocus the 50mm f1.8]

 

[jburrows500]

Fire starter.. thanks for the great advice. I have been looking for an entry level dlsr myself and was going back and forth between the nikon and the canon 1000D.. I think you just gave me the reason I need to choose Canon. For the particular model, that I need some more time to think about.. Thanks!

 

[leighonigar]

The D80 has an internal motor too. That must be less than $1500. A lot less. You do have a point, but from the OPs message, I doubt he'd have too much trouble with a D40, 18-55 and 55-200mm.

 

[firestarter]

The D80 has an internal motor too. That must be less than $1500. A lot less. You do have a point, but from the OPs message, I doubt he'd have too much trouble with a D40, 18-55 and 55-200mm.

Thanks leighonigar, my bad. Yes, the D80 is OK - it's $750, or $950 with the kit lens.

There's rumors that Nikon will be updating some of their prime lenses at Photokina in September... I hope so.

 

[jburrows500]

Canon 450D vs 1000D.. having trouble deciding? any advice?

 

[firestarter]

Canon 450D vs 1000D.. having trouble deciding? any advice?

Check out my link to the Dpreview review of the 1000D (above). They compare both of them all the way through...

 

[Keebler]

i'll chime in for a pentax vote. shake reduction built into the body and not the lens. costs less...still takes great photos (with the photographer too

I must say this, i know nikon and canon lead the market, but I held a D40 last week and it felt like a cheap piece of plastic. i was totally surprised and disappointed. my k100D has a metal body so it's a bit heavier, but much sturdier. The d40 felt so cheap that I gave it back after a few seconds b/c i was afraid to drop it as i'm sure it would have smashed into a kabillion pieces.

that's not to say nikon sucks b/c i've never used one, but holding it....not a good experience.

 

[gwuMACaddict]

c'monnnnn... is the Search function broken?

 

[jburrows500]

c'monnnnn... is the Search function broken?

gwumac.. The search function works great.. I have read both reviews on dpreview as well as dci and numerous others.. Not sure about you but I find anecdotal reviews found on amazon or from users of the camera within forums often far more valuable than reading many trade reviews.. Have you ever read a bad review on cnet? But thanks for asking.. when it breaks I'll let you know.

 

[ChrisA]

The problem here is that Nikon's cameras under $1500 no longer have this autofocus motor in the camera (it's a cost cutting thing). So the D40, 40x, 60 etc. CANNOT AUTOFOCUS any of the old lenses, including the 50mm lens.

[Edit - the D80 at $750 or $950 with a lens can also autofocus the 50mm f1.8]

You ae right about that. But the best deal is a used D50. Easy to find at about $325. It has the focus motor built into the body and the sensor is very much like the o in the d40. Good in low light.

A lot of people who are buying an SLR will never buy a second lens for it and just shoot the kit lens. The D40/D60 is perfect for that person..

One other difference between Nikon and Canon is the Nikon does not make any bad lenses. Nikon's quality level is more even across their line while Canon makes a wide range of quality levels Nikon's are all good even thier "kit" 18-55 is well built. Canon on the other hand, while they make some really nice professional qualify stuff also also make some low-end, well not quite "junk" but "not the best" kit lenses. So if you bought the cheapest level Canon lenses you'd be motivated to upgrades while you could live with a Nikon entry level lens until you needed something faster.

 

[jburrows500]

Nikon D60 10.2MP Digital SLR Camera with 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6G AF-S DX VR Nikkor Zoom Lens is $627 with the 18-55mm lens kit that you were talking about.. The price point is right in there with all the others I am looking at. I appreciate your suggestion... will check it out some more. thanks.

 

[Westside guy]

The problem here is that Nikon's cameras under $1500 no longer have this autofocus motor in the camera (it's a cost cutting thing). So the D40, 40x, 60 etc. CANNOT AUTOFOCUS any of the old lenses, including the 50mm lens.

Basically you listed the only Nikon cameras that don't have a built-in motor - there is no "etc.". Glad you went back and appended an edit to your post. Although it's still a bit misleading, since the D60 replaced the D40x, and the D40x replaced the D40.

I don't think this is much of a limitation though. The target market for those cameras doesn't appear particularly interested in building a lens library - they just want to walk around with the 1-2 lenses they own (typically the 18-200 or 18-55/55-200 pair) and take pictures. Pretty much every Nikon lens that has been designed since 2002 is AF-S, meaning it has its own motor built-in. This is not so much to allow them to autofocus on their lowest-end cameras - in-lens motors focus significantly faster than in-body motors, which is why all their high-end glass is now AF-S.

They are certainly overdue to update their small primes so they are AF-S, though. I have no doubt that will happen, hopefully soon (rumors say around Photokina time, this fall).

 

[TheReef]

i'll chime in for a pentax vote. shake reduction built into the body and not the lens. costs less...still takes great photos (with the photographer too

I must say this, i know nikon and canon lead the market, but I held a D40 last week and it felt like a cheap piece of plastic. i was totally surprised and disappointed. my k100D has a metal body so it's a bit heavier, but much sturdier. The d40 felt so cheap that I gave it back after a few seconds b/c i was afraid to drop it as i'm sure it would have smashed into a kabillion pieces.

that's not to say nikon sucks b/c i've never used one, but holding it....not a good experience.

Yep, the camera world isn't just Nikon and Canon,
Pentax along with Sony and Olympus make excellent cameras also.

I held the Canon and Nikon models and their viewfinders were very small. The Pentax K10D on the other hand had a great viewfinder along with the most sturdiest body (not to mention weather proof!), built in shake reduction and support for all the Pentax lenses they've ever made. I found so much more value going for a Pentax.

Just offering more options.

 

[Slovak]

If you are still considering Nikon, check out http://www.nikonians.org for information. 137,000 registered members, many of them very active.

I got a D40 in March and I am very happy with it.

 

[Grimace]

gwumac.. The search function works great.. I have read both reviews on dpreview as well as dci and numerous others.. Not sure about you but I find anecdotal reviews found on amazon or from users of the camera within forums often far more valuable than reading many trade reviews.. Have you ever read a bad review on cnet? But thanks for asking.. when it breaks I'll let you know.

I think he was referring to the hundreds (thousands?) of posts on the MR photography forum with this same question; over and over and over and over again.

 

[Westside guy]

Well, many would argue that MacRumors search function is broken by design.

The most effective way to search this forum is to go to http://www.google.com and enter your search words followed by "site:forums.macrumors.com" (without the quotation marks).

 

[gwuMACaddict]

Well, many would argue that MacRumors search function is broken by design.

ha

semantics aside, these brand x vs brand y always boil down to nothing. cannon and nikon are in business because they both make excellent products. flip a coin.

 

[Phrasikleia]

ha

semantics aside, these brand x vs brand y always boil down to nothing. cannon and nikon are in business because they both make excellent products. flip a coin.

It's not quite that simple with the entry level models. Things really even out as you move up the ladder, but the lack of an internal focusing motor makes the lower-end Nikon cameras a deal-breaker for some people. I went with Canon for that reason, since I need to shoot shorter-length prime lenses and don't want to have to focus manually all the time.

I'd also like to put in a good word for Pentax: great, solid cameras that work with every Pentax lens ever made. If it weren't for the extra weight their metal bodies bring, I probably would have bought one.

Since the OP mentioned that he likes smaller cameras, he should seriously consider the Olympus e-420 with its kit pancake lens (a 28mm f/2.8, I believe). It's the "world's smallest DSLR".

 

[leighonigar]

But But But... none of the Pentax cameras have metal bodies. I suppose they may be built around a metal substructure, but so are lots of things.

 

[Phrasikleia]

But But But... none of the Pentax cameras have metal bodies. I suppose they may be built around a metal substructure, but so are lots of things.

Oh? Well, those Pentax bodies are built like tanks, at any rate.

 

[lasuther]

Since the OP mentioned that he likes smaller cameras, he should seriously consider the Olympus e-420 with its kit pancake lens (a 28mm f/2.8, I believe). It's the "world's smallest DSLR".

I bought a Olympus e420 with 28mm f2.8 pancake lens and the 40-150mm kit lens. The smaller size and weight of the camera and lens are what drew me to Olympus. Also, Olympus is known for having some of the best kit lens available. I'm more comfortable taking pictures with a smaller camera during social events and when walking around town. Check out http://www.cameralabs.com for some pictures of the e420 with the canon 450d/1000d in the e420 review. My friends use Canon cameras and they were impress with the pictures I was taking with the e420.

There are some drawbacks to the e420. The high iso performance has a touch more noise than Canons or Nikons (but nothing noticeable for my use). Also the lens selection isn't as large as Canons or Nikons.

 

[gwuMACaddict]

It's not quite that simple with the entry level models. Things really even out as you move up the ladder, but the lack of an internal focusing motor makes the lower-end Nikon cameras a deal-breaker for some people.

I know people get concerned about this, but for an entry level camera, I fail to see what the big deal is? I bet most people that buy entry level DSLR's don't ever buy more than one or two other lenses.

It certainly doesn't seem to be adversely affecting Nikon sales...

 

[firestarter]

I know people get concerned about this, but for an entry level camera, I fail to see what the big deal is? I bet most people that buy entry level DSLR's don't ever buy more than one or two other lenses.

It certainly doesn't seem to be adversely affecting Nikon sales...

IMHO you get a quality advantage going up to a DSLR, and some advantage in flexability - but it's only when you start to use fast lenses / low light and selective focussing that you really get into the creative side of DSLR photography.

As keen photographers (presumably) on this forum, I'd hope that we would encourage people to push themselves and get more out of the equipment. Adding a 50mm is such a cheap upgrade... it's a real shame that this isn't realistically available to low end Nikon users.

Since when was mass market popularity a true measure of the 'right thing to do'? Next you'll be trying to persuade me to buy a PC and 'fail[ing] to see what the big deal is?'

 

[Phrasikleia]

I know people get concerned about this, but for an entry level camera, I fail to see what the big deal is? I bet most people that buy entry level DSLR's don't ever buy more than one or two other lenses.

I guess it's a big deal if that one other lens you want is a prime wider than 60mm.