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Aluminum iMac Random Shutdown
- Thread starter LittleJoe
- Start date
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I have recently learned that RAM tests are practically useless. I recently upgraded the RAM on my Macbook with third party RAM, and it caused kernal panics as soon as it booted into OS X. Occasionally it would allow me to log into OS X and acutally do stuff for a good half hour or so. During those occasions, I was able to run diagnostics, and the RAM passed. Went back to the reseller had the RAM swapped, no problems since...
I've been running Windows Vista for the last few weeks, and I've still been experiencing crashes. I am guessing that they are all caused by the ATI graphics hardware or driver. With the Boot Camp included drivers (I think they were dated June), the system would occasionally freeze completely in Windows, often while on a black screen (but with a signal still going to my external display.) With the latest Catalyst 7.11 drivers, Windows has reported a few graphics driver crash recoveries (where the screen goes black for half a second, then comes back on as before). The worst was last night, where the graphics driver crashed and recovers about 10 times before the system finally froze altogether.
With the latest drivers in OS X 10.5 and Windows Vista, I was able to use the system for about a week without rebooting before it froze/shut off. This includes anywhere from 1-3 sleep/wakeup cycles a day. In OS X 10.4 and with the original Boot Camp drivers, freezes seemed more frequent.
I suspect that this is either a) a hardware problem or b) a problem in ATI drivers for OS X and Windows. I further suspect that Windows does not respond to the freeze (that is, the computer stays running but doing nothing), while the computer shuts off when in OS X.
With the latest drivers in OS X 10.5 and Windows Vista, I was able to use the system for about a week without rebooting before it froze/shut off. This includes anywhere from 1-3 sleep/wakeup cycles a day. In OS X 10.4 and with the original Boot Camp drivers, freezes seemed more frequent.
I suspect that this is either a) a hardware problem or b) a problem in ATI drivers for OS X and Windows. I further suspect that Windows does not respond to the freeze (that is, the computer stays running but doing nothing), while the computer shuts off when in OS X.
20 inch imac shuts down.
I just bought my 20 inch imac 2.0GHZ one week ago from FRY'S electronics in Oxnard, Ca. Right out of the box, after about two hours it just shut down. It has continued to do this at least twice a day, mostly when I'm using imovie to edit my movies. I thought it was the surge protector and bought a new one, but that didn't help. After reading the posts on here, I'll try running some tests with the test software, and maybe taking it in. Without this problem, i make quick, easy, cool looking home videos with it.
I just bought my 20 inch imac 2.0GHZ one week ago from FRY'S electronics in Oxnard, Ca. Right out of the box, after about two hours it just shut down. It has continued to do this at least twice a day, mostly when I'm using imovie to edit my movies. I thought it was the surge protector and bought a new one, but that didn't help. After reading the posts on here, I'll try running some tests with the test software, and maybe taking it in. Without this problem, i make quick, easy, cool looking home videos with it.
We had this problem at church. I put in a better quality APC Battery Backup and it went away.
I was also going to update to Leopard just in case...
I'm curious to what your guys' console logs show?
If you go to utilites and open up console. And then click on...hmm I'm not on my mac right now...I believe it's called system.log. It's the last .log in the side menu there. Click on that.
Now search for "shut" see if you get any Previous shutdown cause errors?
Also try searching "heat" or "temp" to see if your getting any overtemp errors or anything related to temperature?
If you go to utilites and open up console. And then click on...hmm I'm not on my mac right now...I believe it's called system.log. It's the last .log in the side menu there. Click on that.
Now search for "shut" see if you get any Previous shutdown cause errors?
Also try searching "heat" or "temp" to see if your getting any overtemp errors or anything related to temperature?
Apple Discussion Forums
Just wondering if all you guys are contributing to the rather popular discussion topic on Apple's own discussion forum.
Over 5000 views and 123 replies and dozens of people fighting with the same problem being discussed here. Check it out.
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1088454&tstart=0
Just wondering if all you guys are contributing to the rather popular discussion topic on Apple's own discussion forum.
Over 5000 views and 123 replies and dozens of people fighting with the same problem being discussed here. Check it out.
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1088454&tstart=0
That's phone support. Not much you can do over the phone for hardware repair anyway. Suck it up.
I purchased a new 20" 2.4 ghz model this February and now all of a sudden in April I experienced the "power plug" shutdown. This was after updating to the new rom version:
Boot ROM Version: IM71.007A.B03
The discussion on the apple board is locked now and I can't reply there.
Boot ROM Version: IM71.007A.B03
The discussion on the apple board is locked now and I can't reply there.
Known Reboot/Restart Issues with 20" iMac
I recently purchased a refurbished, 20" iMac. After the first week or so, the computer began to spontaneously and randomly reboot/restart.
This is what I've gleaned from reading various online forums and then talking to Apple support:
1. This is a known issue that seems to be especially prevalent in iMac 20" models.
2. Possible causes: faulty logic board; faulty DC power supply inverter cable; faulty added RAM (I replaced original 1GB RAM with 4GB OWC RAM)
3. It's recommended that you first try resetting the SMC, and then if that doesn't help, try resetting the PRAM. Instructions are available online via Apple support, or the tech can walk you through the steps.
4. In my case, the 3rd party RAM is also a potential source of problems. Apple support suggested that I remove the RAM and replace it with the OEM RAM, which I kept. . . then see if I'm still having that problem. If that doesn't work, then it's probably the one of the other two causes listed in the first item above, and I'll need to take it in to the Apple Store to have them fix it. The logic board may require a longer repair time, whereas the power supply can supposedly be fixed pretty quickly.
5. It was suggested that I put the OEM RAM in the computer before taking it in for service, as the use of 3rd party RAM could complicate things for me and possibly raise warranty issues. So best to just not even mention the 3rd party RAM. Because the 20" models are known to have this type of problem, they probably will not question anything.
I'll go ahead and test it with the OEM RAM, and then if that doesn't work, take it in for repair. Will try to do a follow-up post here.
I recently purchased a refurbished, 20" iMac. After the first week or so, the computer began to spontaneously and randomly reboot/restart.
This is what I've gleaned from reading various online forums and then talking to Apple support:
1. This is a known issue that seems to be especially prevalent in iMac 20" models.
2. Possible causes: faulty logic board; faulty DC power supply inverter cable; faulty added RAM (I replaced original 1GB RAM with 4GB OWC RAM)
3. It's recommended that you first try resetting the SMC, and then if that doesn't help, try resetting the PRAM. Instructions are available online via Apple support, or the tech can walk you through the steps.
4. In my case, the 3rd party RAM is also a potential source of problems. Apple support suggested that I remove the RAM and replace it with the OEM RAM, which I kept. . . then see if I'm still having that problem. If that doesn't work, then it's probably the one of the other two causes listed in the first item above, and I'll need to take it in to the Apple Store to have them fix it. The logic board may require a longer repair time, whereas the power supply can supposedly be fixed pretty quickly.
5. It was suggested that I put the OEM RAM in the computer before taking it in for service, as the use of 3rd party RAM could complicate things for me and possibly raise warranty issues. So best to just not even mention the 3rd party RAM. Because the 20" models are known to have this type of problem, they probably will not question anything.
I'll go ahead and test it with the OEM RAM, and then if that doesn't work, take it in for repair. Will try to do a follow-up post here.
Threw in the Towel and Got New iMac
As a follow-up to my Post #36. . . changing out the 3rd party RAM back to the 1GB OEM RAM didn't solve the problem. I took the iMac in to the Apple Store where the genius stress-tested it. Of course, everything worked fine while there.
The genius suggested that the problem might be due to unstable power at my house, and recommended that I upgrade my surge protector to a better model/UPS. I bought an APC UPS and tried it out -- still got the random restarts. In fact, they seemed to get worse. Now the Mac would shut down without even rebooting itself. Finally, it got to the stage where it was doing multiple restarts in a row.
Meanwhile, and to add insult to injury, my friend informed me that Apple had just released the new version of the iMac!
The so-far happy ending? I returned the messed-up Mac -- which I had bought as a refurb -- and paid up $200 to get the new, latest 20" model. So far (fingers crossed), it's been working fine.
(One concern for another topic: two different Apple techs told me that 3rd party RAM may degrade the computer over the long-term. Naturally, one would suspect their being biased and giving me a sales pitch to stick with (expensive) Apple memory. But to be honest, I think they really believed what they were saying, as neither one seemed like they were simply being a good soldier for Apple. So now I'm wondering whether to stick with the 3rd party RAM, get better 3rd party RAM, or go with Apple RAM.)
As a follow-up to my Post #36. . . changing out the 3rd party RAM back to the 1GB OEM RAM didn't solve the problem. I took the iMac in to the Apple Store where the genius stress-tested it. Of course, everything worked fine while there.
The genius suggested that the problem might be due to unstable power at my house, and recommended that I upgrade my surge protector to a better model/UPS. I bought an APC UPS and tried it out -- still got the random restarts. In fact, they seemed to get worse. Now the Mac would shut down without even rebooting itself. Finally, it got to the stage where it was doing multiple restarts in a row.
Meanwhile, and to add insult to injury, my friend informed me that Apple had just released the new version of the iMac!
The so-far happy ending? I returned the messed-up Mac -- which I had bought as a refurb -- and paid up $200 to get the new, latest 20" model. So far (fingers crossed), it's been working fine.
(One concern for another topic: two different Apple techs told me that 3rd party RAM may degrade the computer over the long-term. Naturally, one would suspect their being biased and giving me a sales pitch to stick with (expensive) Apple memory. But to be honest, I think they really believed what they were saying, as neither one seemed like they were simply being a good soldier for Apple. So now I'm wondering whether to stick with the 3rd party RAM, get better 3rd party RAM, or go with Apple RAM.
)Problem still not fixed in latest release.
Just in case anybody thinks that getting the latest system will help - think again.
My system purchased last week has the same symptoms. I got this for my wife to give her a more stable machine than her old PC!
Guess what she is using now (still)?
Thanks for nothing Apple
Just in case anybody thinks that getting the latest system will help - think again.
My system purchased last week has the same symptoms. I got this for my wife to give her a more stable machine than her old PC!
Guess what she is using now (still)?
Thanks for nothing Apple
I had the shutdown problem plague me for another week and I got on the phone with AppleCare.
They came across as wanting to be "buddy-buddy" with me and prompt me just to bring it in to the Apple Store where I bought it from and "they'll fix me right up".
My nearest Apple Store (where I purchased it from, no doubt) is over an hour away... and gas prices being less affordable than they have been, I wasn't interested in dropping off the Lemon only to get it fixed and have to come BACK to get it. I kept the box just in case I had a problem with it (behold...!) but Apple told me they don't accept Desktops being shipped in for repair, only laptops. Booooo!!! I didn't think to ask that when I bought the thing, but when I needed repair, Apple was all about telling me what they won't do.
Anyways, I made a big enough stink about it at the store, even told them that I didn't want them to help me with the Migration Assistant - that I had backed it up myself, but I REALLY REALLY wanted out of the Lemon I had purchased and I would pay the difference to get an upgraded model now that the next slew of ultra-fast Core 2 Duos are out.
So now I'm sitting in front of my new 24" 2.8ghz patiently awaiting my 4gb ram upgrade. I ended up selling my old 4gb ram upgrade to a friend with a Dell laptop. The new ones have a bus speed of 800mhz vs last years model of 667mhz.
But the real butt-clencher is that the original problem didn't show it's ugly face for darn near two months after I had got it home and was "happy" with it!
We'll see... we'll see.
Apple needs some serious quality control improvements I'd say. My father was bitten by the G3 iBook "video chip" bug, and a friend of mine went through two Mac Minis before the third one worked fine.
The alternative "mainstream" isn't even an option - I dislike Micro$oft in ways I can't put into words. Guess if this doesn't shape up I'm going to Ubuntu linux and saying "to hell with it".
They came across as wanting to be "buddy-buddy" with me and prompt me just to bring it in to the Apple Store where I bought it from and "they'll fix me right up".
My nearest Apple Store (where I purchased it from, no doubt) is over an hour away... and gas prices being less affordable than they have been, I wasn't interested in dropping off the Lemon only to get it fixed and have to come BACK to get it. I kept the box just in case I had a problem with it (behold...!) but Apple told me they don't accept Desktops being shipped in for repair, only laptops. Booooo!!! I didn't think to ask that when I bought the thing, but when I needed repair, Apple was all about telling me what they won't do.
Anyways, I made a big enough stink about it at the store, even told them that I didn't want them to help me with the Migration Assistant - that I had backed it up myself, but I REALLY REALLY wanted out of the Lemon I had purchased and I would pay the difference to get an upgraded model now that the next slew of ultra-fast Core 2 Duos are out.
So now I'm sitting in front of my new 24" 2.8ghz patiently awaiting my 4gb ram upgrade. I ended up selling my old 4gb ram upgrade to a friend with a Dell laptop. The new ones have a bus speed of 800mhz vs last years model of 667mhz.
But the real butt-clencher is that the original problem didn't show it's ugly face for darn near two months after I had got it home and was "happy" with it!
We'll see... we'll see.
Apple needs some serious quality control improvements I'd say. My father was bitten by the G3 iBook "video chip" bug, and a friend of mine went through two Mac Minis before the third one worked fine.
The alternative "mainstream" isn't even an option - I dislike Micro$oft in ways I can't put into words. Guess if this doesn't shape up I'm going to Ubuntu linux and saying "to hell with it".
me too
Bought the new 20" a week ago, happened for the first time about 2 hours after taking it out of the box and turning it on. I had just installed Firefox and started transferring my music collection from a shared PC drive. Started it back up, started my file transfer, happened about 15 minutes in. Thought maybe it was related to the large transfer, but then it happened later while I was just browsing the web (looking for info about random iMac crashes). Didn't happen again for a couple days, thought maybe it was just a fluke. Then it started happening again. Thought it might be a heat issue - downloaded Temperature Monitor and kept an eye on the temps, but they were pretty low the next time it crashed. Ran a 45 minute CPU stress test, got the CPU temp to 200F and the power supply to 180F, no problem. Then crashed again an hour later while just browsing the web. Reseated the RAM, still not fixed.
I assume this is a hardware problem, but I'll probably reinstall OSX just so I can say I did (and to wipe my personal info) and take it back to the Apple store. Since I'm within my 14 days, will they just replace it rather than make me leave it with them and let the Geniuses try to reproduce the problem? There doesn't seem to be anything I can do to trigger it, and sometimes it's fine for a couple days, so I'm sure it would behave just fine for them.
Bought the new 20" a week ago, happened for the first time about 2 hours after taking it out of the box and turning it on. I had just installed Firefox and started transferring my music collection from a shared PC drive. Started it back up, started my file transfer, happened about 15 minutes in. Thought maybe it was related to the large transfer, but then it happened later while I was just browsing the web (looking for info about random iMac crashes). Didn't happen again for a couple days, thought maybe it was just a fluke. Then it started happening again. Thought it might be a heat issue - downloaded Temperature Monitor and kept an eye on the temps, but they were pretty low the next time it crashed. Ran a 45 minute CPU stress test, got the CPU temp to 200F and the power supply to 180F, no problem. Then crashed again an hour later while just browsing the web. Reseated the RAM, still not fixed.
I assume this is a hardware problem, but I'll probably reinstall OSX just so I can say I did (and to wipe my personal info) and take it back to the Apple store. Since I'm within my 14 days, will they just replace it rather than make me leave it with them and let the Geniuses try to reproduce the problem? There doesn't seem to be anything I can do to trigger it, and sometimes it's fine for a couple days, so I'm sure it would behave just fine for them.
Apple made it right - for now
Took mine to the "geniuses" (20" 2.66 by the way), and after the initial defensiveness...(What did you put on it? and - never heard of this problem), they gave me a new one because of the 14 day rule. So far the new one hasn't cut out yet.
This has got to be a hardware issue, since it would be more widespread if not. The power supply would be a very likely culprit. If that is the case, repair or replacement are the only viable options. A software update will do nothing.
Good luck to those of you still affected, and I'll report back if it happens again.
Took mine to the "geniuses" (20" 2.66 by the way), and after the initial defensiveness...(What did you put on it? and - never heard of this problem), they gave me a new one because of the 14 day rule. So far the new one hasn't cut out yet.
This has got to be a hardware issue, since it would be more widespread if not. The power supply would be a very likely culprit. If that is the case, repair or replacement are the only viable options. A software update will do nothing.
Good luck to those of you still affected, and I'll report back if it happens again.
Can't say for sure, but it seems like the standard troubleshoot would be to go through the tests I mentioned in Post #36, Item #3. Might save you some time if you can go through those either yourself or with phone support, so you can at least get that out of the way even if it doesn't solve anything. If you haven't already and you do get phone support, it seems to help if you get a "case number" from them. That seems to help stop the clock as far as any warranty expirations, since it establishes that you reported the problem at X date.
The first time I took my machine in to the Genius Bar, they stress-tested it for maybe 15 to 20 minutes, while I waited. I'm not sure what stress tests and diagnostics they run vs. what you've tried already. I know at least in part their test consisted of running a whole bunch of processes and windows simultaneously. After that initial run -- where of course nothing happened -- the genius suggested that it probably was an unstable power source on my end, and recommended that I buy a better UPS.
After doing that and still running into problems, they suggested that I might have to bring it in and leave it with them at least overnight, so that they could run the stress tests over a longer period.
While I was at the store waiting for my appointment, though, I was able to crash it myself. . . I had already proposed the swap/upgrade to the just-released newer model, and that pretty much sealed it for me.
Knock on wood, but so far it's been stable. Disconcerting to hear of similar problems occurring after several months of use, though, per other posters here.
- I can't agree more. Get this acknowledged by Apple as soon as possible. Make mentions of the MANY other people reporting this problem on the internet. Apple needs to improve their Q&A process, or at the very least make an effort to proactively replace all the "whatevers" that keep breaking in these machines. Unfortunately, they have a history of being a rather arrogant company.
That's the kicker. What is causing this problem is most likely some third-party component that is common between the new ones and the old. That's why I *had* to move out of the 20" to the 24" just to get something completely different. I don't think that's the answer, though. The answer is "Apple, fix this now!"
oh noes
Took mine back yesterday. Didn't have an appt with the Geniuses, but the salesman went in the back and talked to someone and then came out and told me they'd just go ahead and swap it since it it was only 10 days after purchase. I mentioned the forum threads and the reports of the bad power supply and/or cable, and he said "yeah, that's what one of our guys said it probably was".
Brought the new one home and it did the same thing after about an hour. So I'm wondering if I have an issue with the power in my apartment. I've never noticed any lights flickering, or had any problems with my PC or any other appliances. I did try using other outlets on different circuits, but same thing. I'm using a UPS, but it's a pretty basic one that doesn't do any kind of line conditioning. A friend of mine has a more expensive one that does conditioning, so I'm going to leave it with him for a few days and see if it craps out on him.
I'll be a little disappointed if I have to spend $300 on a UPS because the power supply is too sensitive to deal with what's coming out of my walls.
Took mine back yesterday. Didn't have an appt with the Geniuses, but the salesman went in the back and talked to someone and then came out and told me they'd just go ahead and swap it since it it was only 10 days after purchase. I mentioned the forum threads and the reports of the bad power supply and/or cable, and he said "yeah, that's what one of our guys said it probably was".
Brought the new one home and it did the same thing after about an hour. So I'm wondering if I have an issue with the power in my apartment. I've never noticed any lights flickering, or had any problems with my PC or any other appliances. I did try using other outlets on different circuits, but same thing. I'm using a UPS, but it's a pretty basic one that doesn't do any kind of line conditioning. A friend of mine has a more expensive one that does conditioning, so I'm going to leave it with him for a few days and see if it craps out on him.
I'll be a little disappointed if I have to spend $300 on a UPS because the power supply is too sensitive to deal with what's coming out of my walls.
As I mentioned, the Genius initially tried to put the blame on my home power and the (supposedly) inadequate surge protector I was using (an old, APC power strip type). But when the problem continued after purchasing a new APC UPS/surge protector per his advice, he was forced to acknowledge that wasn't the problem. I'd be more PO'd at having to buy the UPS, but I guess I needed a better surge protector, and it was only about $90 (APC ES Series, BE750G, 750VA/450 watts). It seems decent/adequate for a home user.
I also noted to two other Geniuses that a laptop PC/CRT monitor/printer hooked up at the same time to the same (i.e., my original) surge protector didn't display any restart/flickering, etc. problems that might suggest power fluctuation problems. They both said that was a good indication that my home power supply was OK (although they noted that a laptop's power is buffered by its battery). They also said that iMacs should not be especially sensitive to power fluctuations versus other computers.
(Note: Do you live in an area with a lot of new construction going on? The first Genius said that he encounters many power supply problems coming from owners in such areas, because power is constantly being interrupted due to construction -- esp. of the major project, municipal infrastructure type.)
It sounds like a good idea to try running it with your friend's UPS, although I'm doubtful that the problem is with your home power supply, given my own experience. My new iMac is still running OK, but I'm starting to feel like the axe could fall any day now. If it does, I'm gonna do some tough negotiating. You should too. Good luck!
I bought a new 20" 2.4 iMac one week ago and was having reboot and shut down problems, it was completely random. I obviously was very upset and was just about to return it at Best Buy.
I tried resetting the smc, this did nothing. I then installed smcFanControl, I increased the settings a tiny bit and now everything is fine. I did a lot of heavy processing today, converting files, streaming, d/l, etc...and had absolutely no problems!
I recommend trying this for anyone having these problems.
I finally switched to a mac from a toshiba laptop running xp and was shocked at how unstable the imac was out of the box. Now that things are running properly I am completely satisfied with this purchase. The machine is beautiful, very fast, and OS X is amazing! Can't wait to upgrade the laptops!
I tried resetting the smc, this did nothing. I then installed smcFanControl, I increased the settings a tiny bit and now everything is fine. I did a lot of heavy processing today, converting files, streaming, d/l, etc...and had absolutely no problems!
I recommend trying this for anyone having these problems.
I finally switched to a mac from a toshiba laptop running xp and was shocked at how unstable the imac was out of the box. Now that things are running properly I am completely satisfied with this purchase. The machine is beautiful, very fast, and OS X is amazing! Can't wait to upgrade the laptops!
I bought a new 20" 2.4 iMac one week ago and was having reboot and shut down problems, it was completely random. I obviously was very upset and was just about to return it at Best Buy.
I tried resetting the smc, this did nothing. I then installed smcFanControl, I increased the settings a tiny bit and now everything is fine. I did a lot of heavy processing today, converting files, streaming, d/l, etc...and had absolutely no problems!
I recommend trying this for anyone having these problems.
I finally switched to a mac from a toshiba laptop running xp and was shocked at how unstable the imac was out of the box. Now that things are running properly I am completely satisfied with this purchase. The machine is beautiful, very fast, and OS X is amazing! Can't wait to upgrade the laptops!
Hope it works out for you. I tried smcFanControl with no luck. It never seemed to be an overheating issue anyway, as I was monitoring the temps with Temperature Monitor and all of my crashes have been while I was browsing the web and (in a couple of cases) transferring files from my PC over the wireless. I ran a stress test which got my CPU up to 200F and let it run for awhile, and it was fine. So there didn't seem to be a correlation between heavy processing and the shutdowns.
Even it works for you, that kind of seems like a BS workaround. The fans should run fast enough by default to keep the machine from overheating. smcFanControl was designed to keep the laptops cool so they don't burn your crotch.
Let us know how it goes.