MP 1,1-5,1 Am I wasting my time trying to run Sonoma on my Mac Pro 5,1?

[matthewpomar]

Once per day, I keep getting panicks running Sonoma related to VTDecoderXPCServ on my 2009 Mac Pro (Dual Xeon 3.46 6 core, Sapphire RX580). It’s all a fresh install and I’m running latest version of OCLP. Overall, it works fine while I'm using it, but just locks up with a black screen, mouse and keyboard non-responsive, and I have to press the power button to bring it back up after it has sat a while and the screen has gone to sleep.

According this the post below, the error is due to missing AVX2 support on the CPU(s). So, am I wasting my time trying to use Sonoma? Are there settings I need to tweak to get it to work, or should I consider running an older macOS version?

https://forums.macrumors.com/.../vtdecoderx.../post-32771538

Is Monterey more compatible with my hardware, and is Monterey widely support by app developers?

Thank you.

 

[steve123]

Once per day, I keep getting panicks running Sonoma related to VTDecoderXPCServ on my 2009 Mac Pro (Dual Xeon 3.46 6 core, Sapphire RX580). It’s all a fresh install and I’m running latest version of OCLP. Overall, it works fine while I'm using it, but just locks up with a black screen, mouse and keyboard non-responsive, and I have to press the power button to bring it back up after it has sat a while and the screen has gone to sleep.

According this the post below, the error is due to missing AVX2 support on the CPU(s). So, am I wasting my time trying to use Sonoma? Are there settings I need to tweak to get it to work, or should I consider running an older macOS version?

https://forums.macrumors.com/.../vtdecoderx.../post-32771538

Is Monterey more compatible with my hardware, and is Monterey widely support by app developers?

Thank you.

That post discusses root patching? Did you apply the root patches?

I am running Sonoma on a MP 6,1 and it runs much better than Monterey.

 

[tsialex]

Monterey is the last macOS release that runs acceptably in a production environment with a MacPro5,1. Ventura and Sonoma are deeply dependent on AVX2 and MacPro5,1 Xeons do not support AVX or AVX2.

People will say that everything works with Ventura/Sonoma + OCLP + MacPro5,1, but when you really start to push it, you have KPs all over. I don't doubt that for some office/internet workflows sometimes everything is perfect, but the moment that you start to need hardware compression/decompression or heavy usage of shaders, things fail and hard.

Maybe sometime in the future all the issues related to the missing AVX/AVX2 support will be fully patched and solved, but today is not this day.

 

[matthewpomar]

Thank you.

Rebuilt the machine with Monterey and all my issues went away.

 

[MNissen]

Ditto

I also want to thank Tsialex for his invaluable help.
-----

Related musings:

With a Catalina Install via DosDude's patch, I am able to use Carbon Copy Cloner, to clone a bootable copy, to other HDDs and SSDs and boot from them with no issues. Perfect.

When I've tried to get a similar solution happening, with Monterey via OCLP, CCC documentation warns of failure and promises "Best efforts" only, due to Apple reasons.

Any trials using Time Machine are unproductive. The best I've been able to do, for a restore, is a new Monterey via OCLP install and manually copy files, from a previous Time Machine back up.

I wonder if there is a solution that will allow me to just "clone" a Monterey via OCLP install and have it boot and work...

I'll post here if I get success.
-----

SuperDuper! looks worth a look, "v3.8 now available! Sonoma (macOS 14), Big Sur (macOS 11), Monterey (macOS 12). Ventura (macOS 13) users: we can make bootable Intel and Apple silicon backups"

I wonder if it works with OCLP - I'll try it.

And in the vein of, don't believe everything you read on the internet, there's this LINK

 

[MNissen]

And thanks to Super Duper for this clarifying answer -

"We don't (and can't) copy EFI. On top of that, Apple's replicator (which must be used to copy the OS) won't work if the source snapshot is unsealed, and your patch has caused that to occur.

You have two choices:

- Back out enough of the patch to allow the snapshot to seal. You can then make a full copy, including the OS. Note that since your system is patched, this doesn't make much sense, because the backup won't be patched, and thus won't boot anyway (until it's patched)

- Use "Backup - all files" with "Smart Update" to copy everything BUT the OS (including all applications, settings and data). This can be easily restored by installing the OS to the drive (which in your case would involve patching it), then selecting the backup when prompted to restore during first boot
"

 

[Dayo]

don't believe everything you read on the internet

This particularly applies to any response you get from Perplexity.
The responses are invariably and ultimately a steaming pile of doo-doo!

Maybe better described as dishes garnished with some easily missed doo-doo.

 

[MNissen]

This particularly applies to any response you get from Perplexity.
The responses are invariably and ultimately a steaming pile of doo-doo!

Maybe better described as dishes garnished with some easily missed doo-doo.

Which is why I said "don't believe everything you read on the internet"
_____

Further developments are - I did do a Carbon Copy Clone, using the "Legacy Bootable Copy Assistant" in CCC and it worked!

Notes - the Install is on a 2TB SSD - and the clone went to a 2.5" 2TB Spinner, so it's slow as a slow thing when booting.

But it turns up in OCLP's boot picker and it boots and works, so as a back up solution, I am happy.

Your Mileage May Vary.

 

[MNissen]

Which is why I said "don't believe everything you read on the internet"
_____

Further developments are - I did do a Carbon Copy Clone, using the "Legacy Bootable Copy Assistant" in CCC and it worked!

Notes - the Install is on a 2TB SSD - and the clone went to a 2.5" 2TB Spinner, so it's slow as a slow thing when booting.

But it turns up in OCLP's boot picker and it boots and works, so as a back up solution, I am happy.

Your Mileage May Vary.

Thank you Haralds, I'm grateful to get some confirmation of what I've seen.

I shut down also, sleeping means a hard reboot.

I also have another HDD with DosDude and Catalina - as back up - rock solid.

Just a further note that may be of some help to others playing with this.

Whilst my primary concern has been the Mac Pro 5,1 (4,1 flashed), I have had, my Laptop running Sonoma via OCLP quite happily in the meantime.

It is a: Retina, 15-inch, Early 2013, 2.7 GHz Quad-Core Intel Core i7, Intel HD Graphics 4000 1536 MB, 16 GB RAM running Sonoma 14.3.1 (23D60)

 

[MNissen]

with the release of OCLP 1.4.3 the following blurb is present:

1.4.3 Latest WARNING: Upgrading to 12.7.4, 13.6.5 or 14.4 may break Auto
Joining WiFi Networks on legacy Wireless Cards

To restore Auto-Join support, forget the network and re-add it.

This only applies for legacy WiFi cards, included with the following
models:

MacBook5,x (Early 2008 - Early 2009) MacBookAir2,1 - MacBookAir3,x (Mid
2008 - Late 2010) MacBookPro4,1 - MacBookPro7,1 (Late 2008 - Mid 2010)
iMac7,1 - iMac12,x (Mid 2007 - Mid 2011) Macmini3,1 (Early 2009 - Late
2009) MacPro3,1 - MacPro5,1 (Early 2008 - Mid 2012)
_____

With the release of
OpenCore Legacy Patcher v1.4.3, this build is primarily targeted for
macOS 14.4/14.4.1 and Macs with non-Metal graphics cards. This build
resolves support for the following machines with non-Metal GPUs:

MacBook5,1 - MacBook7,1 (Early 2008 - Mid 2010) MacBookAir2,1 -
MacBookAir4,x (Mid 2008 - Mid 2011) MacBookPro4,1 - MacBookPro8,x (Late
2008 - Late 2011) iMac7,1 - iMac12,x (Mid 2007 - Mid 2011) Macmini3,1 -
Macmini5,x (Early 2009 - Mid 2011) MacPro3,1 - MacPro5,1 (Early 2008 -
Mid 2012) Affected GPU Models (click to expand) We hope everyone enjoys
the new release!

As to be expected, macOS Sonoma support is still in active development.
This is a community-driven project, and as such we ask users to keep
expectations in check and use older OSes if you encounter issues that
affect you.
_____

Whilst my 5,1 is happy on Monterey with no Wifi (have Ethernet)

I might have to try this...

 

[MrScratchHook]

with the release of OCLP 1.4.3 the following blurb is present:

1.4.3 Latest WARNING: Upgrading to 12.7.4, 13.6.5 or 14.4 may break Auto
Joining WiFi Networks on legacy Wireless Cards

To restore Auto-Join support, forget the network and re-add it.

This only applies for legacy WiFi cards, included with the following
models:

MacBook5,x (Early 2008 - Early 2009) MacBookAir2,1 - MacBookAir3,x (Mid
2008 - Late 2010) MacBookPro4,1 - MacBookPro7,1 (Late 2008 - Mid 2010)
iMac7,1 - iMac12,x (Mid 2007 - Mid 2011) Macmini3,1 (Early 2009 - Late
2009) MacPro3,1 - MacPro5,1 (Early 2008 - Mid 2012)
_____

With the release of
OpenCore Legacy Patcher v1.4.3, this build is primarily targeted for
macOS 14.4/14.4.1 and Macs with non-Metal graphics cards. This build
resolves support for the following machines with non-Metal GPUs:

MacBook5,1 - MacBook7,1 (Early 2008 - Mid 2010) MacBookAir2,1 -
MacBookAir4,x (Mid 2008 - Mid 2011) MacBookPro4,1 - MacBookPro8,x (Late
2008 - Late 2011) iMac7,1 - iMac12,x (Mid 2007 - Mid 2011) Macmini3,1 -
Macmini5,x (Early 2009 - Mid 2011) MacPro3,1 - MacPro5,1 (Early 2008 -
Mid 2012) Affected GPU Models (click to expand) We hope everyone enjoys
the new release!

As to be expected, macOS Sonoma support is still in active development.
This is a community-driven project, and as such we ask users to keep
expectations in check and use older OSes if you encounter issues that
affect you.
_____

Whilst my 5,1 is happy on Monterey with no Wifi (have Ethernet)

I might have to try this...

you shouldnt have any issue with ethernet connected...

 

[MNissen]

And now my 5,1 upgraded to Sonoma (3rd time - lucky) and appears to be well.

So a question arises -

Should trim support be enabled for the 2Tb SSD that Sonoma is installed on?

If yes, on Sonoma is the procedure the same as:

Open Terminal - Type sudo trimforce enable and hit enter. - hit Y. ?

To disable TRIM, use the command sudo trimforce disable.

Thanks for any answers.

 

[haralds]

And now my 5,1 upgraded to Sonoma (3rd time - lucky) and appears to be well.

So a question arises -

Should trim support be enabled for the 2Tb SSD that Sonoma is installed on?

If yes, on Sonoma is the procedure the same as:

Open Terminal - Type sudo trimforce enable and hit enter. - hit Y. ?

To disable TRIM, use the command sudo trimforce disable.

Thanks for any answers.

OCLP by default enables Trim. You will see the options in OCLP Patcher Settings.

But be forewarned. Anything past Monterey is not stable due to AVX2 instructions not being supported in the Xeons of the CMpro. You might run for an hour or two or days. Then it will crash with the same log you saw in your original post..

I keep both Monterey and Sonoma. Monterey when I need to do work, Sonoma for a walk on the wild side.

 

[MNissen]

Thanks, I asked because it's not enabled looking at System Information/SATA/Serial-ATA Device tree.

I guess I'll redo the OCLP and see what happenes.

Cheers

MNissen

 

[MNissen]

I checked the OCLP settings and TRIM support was ticked so I re-applied OCLP but it still showed "no" in the System Information/SATA/Serial-ATA Device tree.

So I did it in Terminal and it stuck - now it's enabled.

Happy days

 

[MNissen]

Because I'm a sucker for punishment, I'm placing a lot of faith in the words in the release of OCLP that say -

:: OpenCore Legacy Patcher v1.4.3, this build is primarily targeted for
macOS 14.4/14.4.1 and Macs with non-Metal graphics cards. This build
resolves support for the following machines with non-Metal GPUs...::

Wishful thinking has me believing that it's not just the non-Metal GPU aspect, of these machines that's been addressed, but the machines themselves, with ahem... also the non-Metal GPU part being addressed also.

Either more info will surface soon, or my machine will self destruct in hours/days.

@ tsialex and @haralds - I'm not disbelieving your advice regarding AVX and AVX2.

I take a lot of pleasure in having a machine, that 25 years ago would run a whole prepress environment and cost in the order of 20K, then, as my home desktop, for 300 dollars.

​

 

[macguru9999]

Sonoma ? on a 5,1 ? Yes you are wasting your time.... If you can get monterey going fine, then why not save up for a 7,1 or get an M series to use that. If you like upgrading there are plenty of things you can do with a used 7,1

 

[avro707]

I would say buy one of those 7,1 W3245 machines from eBay with 96GB ram and 2TB SSD and W5500X.

Price is nice, the machine is new and you’ll not have to bother with endless tweaks. The time you save and bother you avoid is worth it.

 

[d0sed0se]

Yes, you are wasting your time

 

[haralds]

Monterey and Windows 11 are very stable.

I like my CMPro and have an emotional attachment. 3.4Ghz dual Xeons, 96GB of ECC memory. RX-580 8GB overclocked, PCIe NVME card with 4TB, updated BLE/WiFi, dual optical with hi-density Bluray writer. It's got a large curved wide screen Dell attached, Cambridge Audio quad sound with subwoofer via minDSP 24 to emulate quad, studio near field monitor with sub via miniFuse 4, Arturia keyboards, etc. I have had it for close to 15 years!

It's the equivalent of an overpowered muscle car with a throaty muffler sound, a relic from the 1970s. When it turns on, the lights dim, and it keeps the rooms warm.

When I get frustrated, I turn it off and connect a MacBook Pro via USB-C to the display. All the USB peripherals switch with it, but it somehow feels like milk toast.

My main driver is an Apple M1 Ultra Studio with a Studio Display, which is more like a Porsche...

 

[MNissen]

It's the equivalent of an overpowered muscle car with a throaty muffler sound, a relic from the 1970s. When it turns on, the lights dim, and it keeps the rooms warm.

True. 👍 👍 👍

I'm retired and have a lot of time, as well as being a bit OCD.

If I were to splurge for a later or greater Mac, yes it would do all I needed it to, but, the hours/years of work and enjoyment I've got invested in this one, would go out the window.

Just for info, I have a Mac Pro 4,1 flashed to 5,1, 2 x 2.26 GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon, an RX590 8Gb Nitro, 48Gb Ram (6 x 8gb in 2 x 3 slots, theoretically faster I'm told, than filling all the slots, 3 channels or something).

A 23" Apple Cinema Display on one side, a Dell 30" on the other and a Dell 34"curved in the middle. Various SSD and HDDs of 10tb total.

Software: Photoshop, Lightroom, Final Cut, Compressor, Motion, Filemaker, etc.

But most important, DCS World, on a Win10 via Bootcamp SSD. I can spend most of a day 'flying' one of the planes in the DCS world simulator/game. With head tracking this is very immersive.

There's no easy way I've found to do DCS world on a Mac, excepting I have a spare SSD, with Catalina via DosDude on it which allows me to boot into Windows easily with Quickboot (© Buttered Cat Software, 2011), something I can't seem to do, with later versions of Mac OS.

So the work flow is, shut down Mac, pull Sonoma SSD, put in Catalina SSD, then boot and 'Quickboot' into the Bootcamp Windows SSD. Not elegant, but it works.

A new PC is the answer, but I've already got 3 Mac laptops, a Mac mini with Kodi for the TV, as well as the 5,1, so another PC is excessive. Not to mention iPhones and iPads.

 

[avro707]

If I were to splurge for a later or greater Mac, yes it would do all I needed it to, but, the hours/years of work and enjoyment I've got invested in this one, would go out the window.

Wouldn’t something like a new 7,1 mentioned earlier give you a lot more enjoyment because you aren’t constantly tweaking config files and hoping when the next opencore release goes on that it still works, or your firmware doesn’t fail from old age.

The 7,1 is the best of both worlds and gives you far greater maximum ram.

It would also give you easy booting into windows (either windows 10 or 11) to run your games.

And in terms of GPUs, you don’t need to do pixlas mods to power the watts- hungry ones. So if you want to run a 4090 for windows you can do so.

And for the newer Radeon 6600/6800/6900 cards, you don’t have to flash them to run on a 7,1, they just work. Your RX590 is not very powerful compared to what you can get now and use in a 7,1.

I love the 5,1 as much as anyone else but it’s just getting too old to be practical unless that firmware project ever finishes and we get newer, more modern firmware for it via an easy plugin chip. But even then we still have old electronics that could fail.

I went 7,1 to get the best of the Xeon powered macs. Something that could be upgraded to be an extremely powerful machine and will keep going for a long time without the 5,1 limitations.

 

[MNissen]

Another post, that is a little different to my sharing post above, might be helpful to other adventurous folk like me:

What is seemingly working for me, is not a direct Sonoma install from Mac OS xxx, or upgrade from a USB drive, or a Sonoma installer on the computer, it's a thorough Monterey install, with subsequent setting up and tweaking and allowing time for bedding in, then an OTA update to Sonoma. OCLP 1.4.3

I don't know why this is different, but I remember when I had Sonoma working well on my 5,1 before, it was only when I tried to introduce the f'n wifi card, that it all went west. So multiple various install attempts later, it's the Monterey first, then OTA update that works for me

I come from a background that is, try every possibility, until you find one that works.

Also, a back up ain't a backup, until you've actually done a successful restore from it.

My 15-inch, MacBook Pro has been on Sonoma 14.4 for a while and took 14.4.1 happily and no issues yet.

My Mac Pro 5,1 is, touch wood, seemingly happy on 14.4.1, two days now....

And my little old 11" MacBook Air, I've just got Monterey via OCLP on today, Sonoma next...
_____

Mac Book Pro Retina, 15-inch, Early 2013, 2.7 GHz Quad-Core Intel Core i7, Intel HD Graphics 4000 1536 MB, 16 GB RAM 1TB SSD

Mac Pro 4,1 2009 flashed to 5,1, 2 x 2.26 GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon, an RX590 8Gb Nitro, 48Gb RAM

MacBook Air 11" late 2010 1.4Ghz intel Core Duo, 2 Gb RAM, NVidia GeFORCE 320M 256MB, 60GB SSD.

 

[MNissen]

Wouldn’t something like a new 7,1 mentioned earlier give you a lot more enjoyment because you aren’t constantly tweaking config files and hoping when the next opencore release goes on that it still works, or your firmware doesn’t fail from old age.

The 7,1 is the best of both worlds and gives you far greater maximum ram.

It would also give you easy booting into windows (either windows 10 or 11) to run your games.

And in terms of GPUs, you don’t need to do pixlas mods to power the watts- hungry ones. So if you want to run a 4090 for windows you can do so.

And for the newer Radeon 6600/6800/6900 cards, you don’t have to flash them to run on a 7,1, they just work.

Thank you avro707 this is information I didn't know and wouldn't know where to look for.

If I ever change from the 5,1 I'll go down the 7,1 rabbit hole

 

[avro707]

Thank you avro707 this is information I didn't know and wouldn't know where to look for.

If I ever change from the 5,1 I'll go down the 7,1 rabbit hole

We all rushed to that particular eBay store selling the ex-Meta units which are new and in original box. The price is too cheap to ignore and it’s basically get one before they are gone.

I was almost going to get a second 7,1 - but settled for a W3275M CPU and the afterburner card.

If they are still there in a few weeks I might still get a second 7,1 and sell one of my 5,1 machines which will be in original box.