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dk001

macrumors demi-god
Oct 3, 2014
11,122
15,472
Sage, Lightning, and Mountains
If one needs to rely on smart devices, isn't it best to make sure all of them can work with HomeKit alone? That way, the central server is really your HomeHub which you have control of.

Only if you are Apple centric.
As they need iCloud and Apple you are not really in control.

Get a system that links to a personal server and you can access remotely. That way you do have control.
 

anselpela

Suspended
May 17, 2023
250
333
The customer's house. The Amazon driver was wearing headphones and misheard the automated response from the camera doorbell. He thought it said something inappropriate so he reported it and Amazon shut down the customers account which shut down his Smart home. What they should’ve done is maybe suspend his delivery services until the situation was resolved. Since it was a smart doorbell with a camera, he had a recording of exactly what happened so he was able to send that to Amazon and they reinstated his account. The problem was it took them a week or so. After that, they reinstated him but acted like nothing happened. No apology or anything.


The only thing I have is smart lights, but I still have the old manual switch so, if somehow the smart functionality was disabled, I could still control them manually.



I don’t have a smart clock, but that sounds pretty cool. I like Smart home devices, but have never really thought about how they are dependent on someone else’s server. If they pull the plug, none of your stuff works. That really concerns me because I figure in ten years everything in the house is going to be automated by some sort of voice assistant. It’s going to be Hey ____ preheat the oven to 350. Will the oven still work if Amazon thinks I did something bad?
None of this makes any sense and is probably 100% false.

If you knew anything at all about the way Amazon treats delivery service partners vs. customers, you would know that nothing like this could or would ever happen. Amazon won't even blacklist customers who have dangerous pets that maul drivers without multiple chances and full investigation.

"Oh a customer said something mean to a driver, let's turn off their thermostat" sounds incredibly real, trust me .../s
 
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msackey

macrumors 68030
Oct 8, 2020
2,856
3,291
Only if you are Apple centric.
As they need iCloud and Apple you are not really in control.

Get a system that links to a personal server and you can access remotely. That way you do have control.
True to both points: Apple centric and needs iCloud.

However, having a personal server is not necessarily an easy thing for many people. Even though I'm pretty tech savvy, I am not comfortable enough to have my own personal server that is accessible from outside my intranet. There are all these network configurations that are needed and I fear my lack of knowledge would result in intrusion into my intranet. No thank you. :)

Sure, for someone savvy enough and comfortable enough with it, go ahead and run your own personal server accessible from the internet. For people like me, that seems more potential for other types of network headaches that I much rather not fuss around with.
 
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dubiousgif

macrumors regular
Aug 30, 2022
108
122
I'm not watching this or any of his click bait videos, but I'll go out on a limb here and assume what he means by "infighting" is that the members of his cult should spend less time questioning his teachings and should instead come together around the idea that everything he says, factual or not, is in service of a higher truth?
No, he means the people victim blaming those who got screwed by companies (”should’ve known better”) should stop that and focus on holding the companies accountable for poor practices.
 
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Madmic23

macrumors 6502a
Apr 21, 2004
904
1,048
If you're using HomeKit a thief that stole your password can lock you out of your phone AND your home as well. Think about that.
That can't actually happen. I have a lot of smart home stuff, including door locks which you can open from the Apple Home App, or using a keypad on the lock. You can't change the code on the lock from the Home app. You also can't disable the lock from the Home app. You need to use the manufacturers app to do those things.
 
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dk001

macrumors demi-god
Oct 3, 2014
11,122
15,472
Sage, Lightning, and Mountains
That can't actually happen. I have a lot of smart home stuff, including door locks which you can open from the Apple Home App, or using a keypad on the lock. You can't change the code on the lock from the Home app. You also can't disable the lock from the Home app. You need to use the manufacturers app to do those things.

So what does happen if you have an Apple home item (I don't anymore and can't say what they are) and a "theif" locks you out of your AppleID and iCloud? How does that affect your ability to use, or reset the access codes and control of these devices?
 

Analog Kid

macrumors G3
Mar 4, 2003
9,351
12,579
No, he means the people victim blaming those who got screwed by companies (”should’ve known better”) should stop that and focus on holding the companies accountable for poor practices.

So basically what I said-- we should all ignore the fact that claims of being screwed by a company here is incredibly suspect and instead leave truth to the side and use this story as a parable to discuss how evil corporations are.

Let's all agree on the conclusion, but nobody should question the premise.
 
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Xand&Roby

macrumors 6502a
Jun 13, 2020
534
486
I really don't understand how millennials can pose the problem of home automation.

I've been using HomeKit since it's available, I don't even know when, it will be almost 10 years, first I learned to use Siri and then CarPlay, along with the Shortcut routines (which I used before it was acquired by Apple) and, on Macs, especially at work, Automator.
In the house I have lights, motion sensors, temperature, humidity, power sockets, all simple systems that manage simple appliances (because the real problem is to make two or more AIs talk to each other) and interact with each other: everything that is possible to automate, without becoming ridiculous (I don't automate an espresso machine that I have to load every time).
The lights only turn on when the external brightness is less than a certain parameter, if someone is in the house, if there is movement in the room, with any time limits. If the humidity exceeds a certain threshold, the dehumidifier is turned on, otherwise the heating. If the washing machine is working it suspend the dishwasher and so on. I will have explained a thousand times to my guests that to turn on a light you just have to move one hand or ask Siri to do it, from their devices or from the HomePods, every time they look for the switch.
I understand that digital-born homes can prove to be a problem, but technology, before than selling products, should serve to make lives simpler, even if they seem worse or assisted.
To overcome the fear of being a victim of your own home, just leave analogue switches: between an AI and a human, whoever controls the electricity wins.
For now.
 
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dubiousgif

macrumors regular
Aug 30, 2022
108
122
No, he means the people victim blaming those who got screwed by companies (”should’ve known better”) should stop that and focus on holding the companies accountable for poor practices.
I don’t see what he stands to gain lying about this but the source is suspect as you pointed out.
 

Madmic23

macrumors 6502a
Apr 21, 2004
904
1,048
So what does happen if you have an Apple home item (I don't anymore and can't say what they are) and a "theif" locks you out of your AppleID and iCloud? How does that affect your ability to use, or reset the access codes and control of these devices?
The Apple Home app is just another level of control. I try to buy smart devices that have physical controls as well, like Lutron switches. That lets you create schedules, control items with Siri, or just push the button on the wall. If you were to get locked out of your Apple account, the button on the wall still works. Same with smart thermostats. They’re just regular thermostats that can also receive commands over the internet.

Most smart devices can be reset locally. On an Ecobee thermostat for example, you can factory reset it from the device itself. For many smart bulbs, you can reset them locally, but that can be a pain and time consuming, especially if you have a lot of them.

If you have a smart home device that can only be controlled by a smart speaker, that could be a problem for you. For example, you can buy smart bulbs from Amazon that use an Echo dot as a hub. If you get locked out of your Amazon account, you won’t be able to control those bulbs remotely. Most bulbs will turn on or off if you flip the switch on/off quickly.

I do have a set of LED strip lights from Meross that I regret buying as they can only be controlled from an app or a speaker. I have a Nanoleaf LED strip light that has a button on it so you can at least turn it on and off without an app.
 
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kitKAC

macrumors 6502a
Feb 26, 2022
876
844
So what does happen if you have an Apple home item (I don't anymore and can't say what they are) and a "theif" locks you out of your AppleID and iCloud? How does that affect your ability to use, or reset the access codes and control of these devices?

Create a new Apple ID and re-add your devices using the HomeKit codes.
 
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Ifti

macrumors 601
Dec 14, 2010
4,023
2,597
UK
I have a smart thermostat which I use to put the heating on before we get home, or make sure its off when we've left and forgotten to check etc.
I also have a Ring doorbell and alarm.
Otherwise nothing else - I do not have switches and lights on smart devices. I dont see the point. In fact, we were on vacation 2 weeks ago and I used a trusty old mechanical timer to switch a lamp on/off on a schedule!
 

kevcube

macrumors 6502
Nov 16, 2020
444
619
Personally I wouldn't want wifi enabled HVAC or wifi most things as they draw more power than their non-wifi counterpart.
HVAC - something that can draw 1000's of watts.

"Smart" HVAC couldn't possible add more than an additional 10 watts in an absolute worst-case scenario...

And that's completely ignoring the efficiency gains that smart devices make possible.
 
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Longplays

Suspended
May 30, 2023
1,308
1,158
HVAC - something that can draw 1000's of watts.

"Smart" HVAC couldn't possible add more than an additional 10 watts in an absolute worst-case scenario...

And that's completely ignoring the efficiency gains that smart devices make possible.

I use the term HVAC to cover anything heater or AC related.

So let us say a duct-less mini split AC with a wifi component.

Typical ACs should last 1-2 decades.

Let us say the wifi part breaks down nearing a decade. Would LG, Samsung or even Carrier have that spare part on hand or will you be forced to buy a whole new AC just for that 1 faulty part? That is what is happening with TVs these days. Assuming it breaks after a decade do they have the parts on hand at ~$100 + labor?

I love having the latest and greatest like anyone else but things that do not need an internet connection... I rather pass.

The only "smart" thing I'd value with an AV is it keeping a record on its power consumption and other telemetrics. But other than that... it's just e-waste.

I rather have an AC that reduces my power consumption by >2/3rd my previous model than being able to wifi start it 1 hr before I arrive.
 

rhett7660

macrumors G5
Jan 9, 2008
14,371
4,493
Sunny, Southern California
No way in a thousand years would I have that kind of dystopian automation in my home where something other than disaster can decide whether I have heating, lights, water, or other essential-for-life services. In terms of home automation the most I have is a couple of lamps operated by electronic timers. The rest can go ---- itself. And I don't care how neanderthal that makes me sound.

Depending on what you get, you still have a physical buttons. My lights and thermostat still have physical buttons that I can use manually. No need to use the voice. I use the voice a lot and have a lot of scenes setup with my lights, but they ALL can be manually turned off, dimmed, or turned on.

If my ring camera goes down, load and behold I have still have a window in my door that I can still look out. If I lose connectivity to the internet, amazingly, I can still turn on my lights on/off/dim via the normal switches you probably have now or control my thermostat via the buttons.

Now if we lose connectivity via electrical outage, we are both in the same boat.
 

Nermal

Moderator
Staff member
Dec 7, 2002
20,973
4,542
New Zealand
Ok, so the summary here, if I'm following this, is that an Amazon package delivery driver dropped a package off, heard something on a doorbell speaker, presumably raised it with his superiors in logistics who have a reputation of not caring if their employees need to pee in bottles to get the job done but chose to escalate this particular concern across one of the worlds most massive corporations to the point it reached the attention of the distant Alexa organization which took it upon themselves to shutdown his account, an action of which he was notified by an actual Amazon executive with nothing better to do than target and answer a call from one person buying a package.

And this all coincidentally happens a few days after they created a Medium account suggesting they're a Microsoft engineer and posted a vanilla, almost certainly AI generated, article about how Bing search is going to take over the world.

Then they write this article up and include a picture with a very humanly written sounding "A locked Amazon Echo dot with the Amazon logo on it wrapped in a chain with a padlock" caption. An image which, I feel compelled to mention, does not feature a padlock.

To bring attention to their plight, they then reach out to the intrepid and hard hitting journalistic powerhouse, Louis Rossman.

Until this gets the attention of someone willing to do even basic follow up, I'll take the odds on bot with a ChatGPT account. Just looking at how quickly people were willing to swallow this as more likely true than not is a bit disappointing.
I agreed with you... but Amazon has now confirmed the story.
 

ovbacon

Suspended
Feb 13, 2010
1,596
11,508
Tahoe, CA
To be really honest it baffles me that anyone would want to be so reliant on a single company.... but then again I live in a place where power outages are pretty common so we are setup for pretty much any event.
 

Analog Kid

macrumors G3
Mar 4, 2003
9,351
12,579
I agreed with you... but Amazon has now confirmed the story.
"Without challenging any of the published claims, an Amazon spokesperson said, "We work hard to provide customers with a great experience while also ensuring drivers who deliver Amazon packages feel safe. In this case, we learned through our investigation that the customer did not act inappropriately, and we’re working directly with the customer to resolve their concerns while also looking at ways to prevent a similar situation from happening again."​
The Register asked Amazon to clarify whether Jackson's account was suspended solely based on a claim made by its driver. We've not heard back."​

I gotta say, that's kinda of baffling... It would be more gratifying if Amazon actually explained what the hell happened, but this is clearly not a denial (and a quick search shows a nearly verbatim response given to other news outlets).

I guess I can add this to my reasons to distrust Alexa without fear that I've given in to confirmation bias...
 
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