AMD Firepro

[iBug2]

That fits exactly with the projections in the previous thread about power consumption. With GPU only, it barely fits in there. If the CPU were significantly active at the same time, the performance hit would be immediate and severe.

Also, since it's using 438W of a 450W maximum, the addition of bus-powered TB and USB devices (up to 75W total) could impact performance.

I addition, I'd like some real-world benchmarks (running the test for several hours) to see if it still holds up when the machine is warm. It's unclear if these benchmarks are from a cold start--in this case, the numbers could be quite different.

It's possible it can maintain low temperatures and it's possible there aren't a lot of Dual GPU+CPU use-cases. As a practical matter it simply may not be an issue.

Luxmark has the option to test GPU+CPU. If they ran the GPU+CPU test, that 438W may be the entire thing.

 

[slughead]

Luxmark has the option to test GPU+CPU. If they ran the GPU+CPU test, that 438W may be the entire thing.

The actual results for the benchmarks were conspicuously absent from that article too. They're clearly running the tests and not reporting the results. I wonder if the reviewers who were granted an early release were told to do so.

 

[ZnU]

The actual results for the benchmarks were conspicuously absent from that article too. They're clearly running the tests and not reporting the results. I wonder if the reviewers who were granted an early release were told to do so.

The theory that Apple is orchestrating some scheme to prevent certain technical information about these machines from being revealed is fatally undermined by the fact that they gave one to AnandTech. Wait until Anand's review lands. If he's up to his usual form we'll know more about this machine's performance characteristics at that point than Apple does. I'm only slightly exaggerating. He routinely examines issues like thermal throttling on iPads. I imagine he's going to test a pro workstation where this stuff actually matters practically to destruction.

A lot of the shallowness of the reviews we've seen so far is just down to selection bias. It takes longer to write a 'deep' review, so all the early reviews are shallow.

 

[slughead]

The theory that Apple is orchestrating some scheme to prevent certain technical information about these machines from being revealed is fatally undermined by the fact that they gave one to AnandTech. Wait until Anand's review lands. If he's up to his usual form we'll know more about this machine's performance characteristics at that point than Apple does. I'm only slightly exaggerating. He routinely examines issues like thermal throttling on iPads. I imagine he's going to test a pro workstation where this stuff actually matters practically to destruction.

A lot of the shallowness of the reviews we've seen so far is just down to selection bias. It takes longer to write a 'deep' review, so all the early reviews are shallow.

A great many hardware manufacturers give away test units with non-disclosure agreements that expire all at once. This is commonplace. That way the can do their testing and have a bombardment of articles all published at the same time. This is not to bias reviews, but to control the flow of information. Reviewers play ball because they still get their testing done ahead of the release date and so they can have a review ready.

 

[deconstruct60]

A great many hardware manufacturers give away test units with non-disclosure agreements that expire all at once. This is commonplace. That way the can do their testing and have a bombardment of articles all published at the same time. This is not to bias reviews, but to control the flow of information.

You are smoking dope if don't see the bias. When they create the "gold rush" stampede for first review eyeballs it is all about currying favor to get early access to the machines. That skews the results. Anyone who double barrel shotgun blasts an Apple product will probably loose access. Anything with "freebie" and "favors' has biases built in.

Yeah there is a "maximum coordinated" hype release aspect involved here also but the reviews are bridled also.

 

[iBug2]

You are smoking dope if don't see the bias. When they create the "gold rush" stampede for first review eyeballs it is all about currying favor to get early access to the machines. That skews the results. Anyone who double barrel shotgun blasts an Apple product will probably loose access. Anything with "freebie" and "favors' has biases built in.

Yeah there is a "maximum coordinated" hype release aspect involved here also but the reviews are bridled also.

Then again, the reviews about the new Mac Pro are fairly middle ground. It's good for certain tasks, bad for others. Exactly like everyone imagined them to be.

I don't think we'll be learning a lot more from Anand's review other than some technical measurements.

 

[slughead]

You are smoking dope if don't see the bias. When they create the "gold rush" stampede for first review eyeballs it is all about currying favor to get early access to the machines. That skews the results. Anyone who double barrel shotgun blasts an Apple product will probably loose access. Anything with "freebie" and "favors' has biases built in.

Yeah there is a "maximum coordinated" hype release aspect involved here also but the reviews are bridled also.

Fair enough, it looks like that's what happened with Ars. They apparently didn't get one.

 

[deconstruct60]

Then again, the reviews about the new Mac Pro are fairly middle ground. It's good for certain tasks, bad for others. Exactly like everyone imagined them to be.

I'm not saying they are so biased that they are disconnected from reality. But you will see folks bending over backwards to find something good to say. Also overlooking glaring aspects that other users will find quiet quickly when they get the device.

The formulaic "fair and balanced" reviews are biased not in weight of the skew but in being crafted to an agenda. These mags are in the spec porn business to draw eyeballs. Access to the raw porn is one of their drivers because it puts money in their pockets.

I don't think we'll be learning a lot more from Anand's review other than some technical measurements.

Given Apple's support docs and tech specs are rather limited and often incomplete it is necessary.

 

[iBug2]

I'm not saying they are so biased that they are disconnected from reality. But you will see folks bending over backwards to find something good to say. Also overlooking glaring aspects that other users will find quiet quickly when they get the device.

The formulaic "fair and balanced" reviews are biased not in weight of the skew but in being crafted to an agenda. These mags are in the spec porn business to draw eyeballs. Access to the raw porn is one of their drivers because it puts money in their pockets.




Given Apple's support docs and tech specs are rather limited and often incomplete it is necessary.

Agreed on both accounts.

 

[lesferdinand]

A great many hardware manufacturers give away test units with non-disclosure agreements that expire all at once. This is commonplace. That way the can do their testing and have a bombardment of articles all published at the same time. This is not to bias reviews, but to control the flow of information. Reviewers play ball because they still get their testing done ahead of the release date and so they can have a review ready.

Very true. However, that scenario didn't play out with the nMP. For the initial batch of nMP reviews, the various sites actually reported that they received their machines on the day it went on sale, and started with (very) high level hands-on articles rather than proper reviews. This strongly suggests that they did not have machines available for a significant period ahead of launch. Contrast that for example with the Xbone and PS4 launches, where, as soon as the NDA's expired, full fledged reviews were published everywhere.

The true potential of the nMP may not be revealed/realized until well after release, as software (hopefully) gets updated to take advantage of GCGPU. Early adopters have to take a bit of a gamble.

 

[MH01]

Very true. However, that scenario didn't play out with the nMP. For the initial batch of nMP reviews, the various sites actually reported that they received their machines on the day it went on sale, and started with (very) high level hands-on articles rather than proper reviews. This strongly suggests that they did not have machines available for a significant period ahead of launch. Contrast that for example with the Xbone and PS4 launches, where, as soon as the NDA's expired, full fledged reviews were published everywhere.

The true potential of the nMP may not be revealed/realized until well after release, as software (hopefully) gets updated to take advantage of GCGPU. Early adopters have to take a bit of a gamble.

But did anyone actually pick one up in the apple store on launch day? I have not heard any user having a Mac Pro until they received them just before Xmas. I believe the press were the only ones with actual units way ahead from other users.

It will not be till after the general public get them , that we will Learn about the limitations/issues , not just the future potential. At this point the press only has positive things and somewhat biased benchmarks to please apple.

January should be good, the feedback from MR members will be great. To be honest I'm tempted to order one and test it within the return period. Still on the fence.

 

[Umbongo]

But did anyone actually pick one up in the apple store on launch day? I have not heard any user having a Mac Pro until they received them just before Xmas. I believe the press were the only ones with actual units way ahead from other users.

It will not be till after the general public get them , that we will Learn about the limitations/issues , not just the future potential. At this point the press only has positive things and somewhat biased benchmarks to please apple.

January should be good, the feedback from MR members will be great. To be honest I'm tempted to order one and test it within the return period. Still on the fence.

The S9000 is the W8000 with more memory capacity, and a wider bus. You can see here that Apple have just likely secured the high-end GPUs similar to those used at the top end of the Radeon/FirePro lines, got specifications to suit the design and paid a good price for them allowing them to offer them at this price.

Heck for all we know they went to AMD and said they wanted the top Radeon cards and AMD offered to sell them as FirePros. It benefits AMD as much as Apple as they have only 15% of the workstation GPU market and the FirePro brand is nothing compared to Quadro. AMD probably ship in the 500,000 region for FirePro cards and so 2 GPUs per Mac Pro is huge and Apple pushing this is more than AMD could do for FirePro through Dell and HP.

 

[wheelhot]

Heck for all we know they went to AMD and said they wanted the top Radeon cards and AMD offered to sell them as FirePros. It benefits AMD as much as Apple as they have only 15% of the workstation GPU market and the FirePro brand is nothing compared to Quadro. AMD probably ship in the 500,000 region for FirePro cards and so 2 GPUs per Mac Pro is huge and Apple pushing this is more than AMD could do for FirePro through Dell and HP.

So you're saying the AMD FirePros in the nMP is not true FirePros?

I know people are saying there's no difference between a workstation vs gaming GPU in the Mac environment because of the drivers and etc, but I really hope they give us FirePro drivers for BootCamp - Windows. Cause if not, then it's really WEIRD of AMD to use the name FirePro

 

[slughead]

So you're saying the AMD FirePros in the nMP is not true FirePros?

I know people are saying there's no difference between a workstation vs gaming GPU in the Mac environment because of the drivers and etc, but I really hope they give us FirePro drivers for BootCamp - Windows. Cause if not, then it's really WEIRD of AMD to use the name FirePro

I agree, we really need to see the consumer card benchmark comparisons on pro Apps in OS X and Windows.

Even if it works like a W7000 In Windows, it makes the nMP competitive. 7970? That makes the nMP a joke.

 

[iBug2]

I agree, we really need to see the consumer card benchmark comparisons on pro Apps in OS X and Windows.

Even if it works like a W7000 In Windows, it makes the nMP competitive. 7970? That makes the nMP a joke.

If it works on Windows that means squat. You don't buy a Mac Pro to run a damn Windows on it.

There are no FirePro drivers and catalyst drivers on OS X. All cards use the same drivers and we all know it. So the only difference between a FirePro and a Radeon on a Mac is the hardware. If the hardware is the same, then the card is basically a downclocked 7970. But since this is special card made for Apple, we won't really know about the hardware until people get their hands on it and pull it apart.

But since this is connected through PCIe 3.0, comparing it to a 7970 in a Mac Pro connected through PCIe 2.0 might not give us the best comparison. PCIe 3.0 might add 2-3% performance to the D700.

 

[chfilm]

where are those dudes who got theirs before christmas?

 

[slughead]

If it works on Windows that means squat. You don't buy a Mac Pro to run a damn Windows on it.

There are no FirePro drivers and catalyst drivers on OS X. All cards use the same drivers and we all know it. So the only difference between a FirePro and a Radeon on a Mac is the hardware. If the hardware is the same, then the card is basically a downclocked 7970. But since this is special card made for Apple, we won't really know about the hardware until people get their hands on it and pull it apart.

But since this is connected through PCIe 3.0, comparing it to a 7970 in a Mac Pro connected through PCIe 2.0 might not give us the best comparison. PCIe 3.0 might add 2-3% performance to the D700.

There are plenty of oMP users who booted into Windows for certain use-cases. You can throw away benchmarks you don't like if you want. Essentially what you're doing is saying people aren't allowed to compare the nMP to anything but the old Mac Pro.

So your comparison machine, to see if the D700 would be any good, is a 4 year old design running PCIe 2.0 with Two 7970 which aren't even supposed to go in there ( require external power ).

You're clearly just rigging the test to suit the nMP. I'm throwing the nMP on the same footing as the PC competition and seeing which one is actually faster at those tasks--which, like it or not, many professionals using Macs actually use.

Again, is this a "pro" machine or a "prosumer/enthusiast" machine?