Android Users: Why don't you root?

[jamezr]

You don't have to root an Android phone to make it "work". Also over 90% of customizations on Android can be done by anyone without rooting. its just a matter of installing the replacement app from play store.

rooting is actually for hardcore geeks who probably want to flash different roms, overclocking etc.

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no rooting needed.
not sure if you tried this. i noticed on Android 4.x you can actually goto settings > applications> All

and "disable" the att bloatwares. if you updated the bloats through play store, try to uninstall the update and then the "disable' button should be visible. otherwise it would say "uninstall updates" when you go to settings.

once disabled, icons disappear and they stop running. you can reboot few times to verify.

Yes....but it does not remove them.......
Once the bootloader exploit is released at the end of the month. I can run different roms from my phone depending on how I feel that day. I can decide it I want to run a TouchWiz rom that day or a pure vanilla Android. Plus being able to remove all the bloatware or software from my phone frees up space on the OS partition as well.

 

[mattopotamus]

Yes....but it does not remove them.......
Once the bootloader exploit is released at the end of the month. I can run different roms from my phone depending on how I feel that day. I can decide it I want to run a TouchWiz rom that day or a pure vanilla Android. Plus being able to remove all the bloatware or software from my phone frees up space on the OS partition as well.

Why do that? I am not trolling or anything, but seriously would like to know the benefit of toggling different set ups. That just seems very counterproductive to me. If you hate touchwiz just use vanilla and be done with it. That seems like a chore to me constantly switching between the two.

 

[KentuckyHouse]

Why do that? I am not trolling or anything, but seriously would like to know the benefit of toggling different set ups. That just seems very counterproductive to me. If you hate touchwiz just use vanilla and be done with it. That seems like a chore to me constantly switching between the two.

It's really not a chore at all. You just make a Nandroid backup of your current setup, then flash the new ROM, then restore your apps from Titanium Backup. If you like that setup, you can go into recovery again, make a Nandroid of the new ROM, and from then on, you can flash back and forth from one ROM to another in just a minute or two.

This is easiest on phones that support external SD, since Nandroid backups can easily be 1gb or more in size. You simply move them from your internal memory to the SD and you're not eating up tons of space on your phone's memory.

 

[mattopotamus]

It's really not a chore at all. You just make a Nandroid backup of your current setup, then flash the new ROM, then restore your apps from Titanium Backup. If you like that setup, you can go into recovery again, make a Nandroid of the new ROM, and from then on, you can flash back and forth from one ROM to another in just a minute or two.

This is easiest on phones that support external SD, since Nandroid backups can easily be 1gb or more in size. You simply move them from your internal memory to the SD and you're not eating up tons of space on your phone's memory.

you just spoke a different language to me haha. That still does not explain why you would want to do that. Wouldn't the ideal setup be getting the phone the way you like it and leave it that way or tweak it? Why change the layout entirely on a day to day basis?

 

[Prototypical]

This thread:

Image

This sums up a lot of Android fanatics, actually.

Rooting is not acceptable to a lot of people with security-sensitive positions. "Root isn't that insecure?" Tell that to my IT department. I'm not getting fired because I want my phone to look like Iron Man or because I don't want to see a few banner ads (especially when you can get rid of them when you actually PAY for apps). The phone should work as intended when I take it out of the box... or it isn't the phone for me.

It's sort of like modifying a car - if you have to spend time modding it to make it work like you want it to, then you should have purchased a different car to begin with.

 

[rockitdog]

this sums up a lot of android fanatics, actually.

rooting is not acceptable to a lot of people with security-sensitive positions. "root isn't that insecure?" tell that to my it department. I'm not getting fired because i want my phone to look like iron man or because i don't want to see a few banner ads (especially when you can get rid of them when you actually pay for apps). The phone should work as intended when i take it out of the box... Or it isn't the phone for me.

It's sort of like modifying a car - if you have to spend time modding it to make it work like you want it to, then you should have purchased a different car to begin with.

^^^this^^^

 

[jamezr]

Why do that? I am not trolling or anything, but seriously would like to know the benefit of toggling different set ups. That just seems very counterproductive to me. If you hate touchwiz just use vanilla and be done with it. That seems like a chore to me constantly switching between the two.

Not a chore at all...I love having a different setup sometimes. I can switch between different look and feel entirely. I can set my phone up just the way I like it and then back it up with RM. Then do the same with another rom with a different look and feel. Then if I feel like CM rom today then 3 minutes and i ma there. Maybe vanilla Android flavor rom......3 minutes in Rom Manager and I am there with all my apps and all the app data as well. I guess it just comes down to individual tastes....to each his own!

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This sums up a lot of Android fanatics, actually.

Rooting is not acceptable to a lot of people with security-sensitive positions. "Root isn't that insecure?" Tell that to my IT department. I'm not getting fired because I want my phone to look like Iron Man or because I don't want to see a few banner ads (especially when you can get rid of them when you actually PAY for apps). The phone should work as intended when I take it out of the box... or it isn't the phone for me.

It's sort of like modifying a car - if you have to spend time modding it to make it work like you want it to, then you should have purchased a different car to begin with.

I work in an IT department....we don't want everyday people to have access to root or local admin on their machines because....well they make changes and it leads to additional support calls. Then the user is complaining because their workstation/phone/tablet doesn't work they way it used to......
Company products are set with restrictions for a reason....some are security related. Some are for sake of standardization and ongoing support.
Plus you should not be rooting company work products. That should just be for personal equipment.

Edit:
I have a Toyota Tundra 4x4. First thing I did was lift it and put bigger tires on it. I take it off road and the factory setup would not cut it. So to make it meet my needs I customized it....it did not void the warranty. Now I enjoy my truck so much more than if i just left it stock.......
Edit #2
If i could order my phone customized the way I want....that would be awesome! Plus do you have a case on your phone? Why? I did not come that way. If the manufacturer wanted a case on the phone it would come that way......

 

[sentinelsx]

May be some people are new to android and don't feel the need. Also if you are a newbie and end up going to XDA forums for hacking stuff, expect to be ridiculed, looked down upon, berated by all the god complex guys there who think anyone who comes there must have two PHDs in software engineering. First they absolutely suck at writing proper instructions without skipping something that seems minor to them but would be crucial to a newbie, then if that poor newbie asks them something, well, i can imagine them all frothing at their mouths.

I was reading the AOKP thread once to figure out something and saw this one guy posting about his reboot issue and there were 3 pages of name calling and berating instead of one simple post that gives him the answer in 2 lines. I decided to PM him and helped out to figure what was going wrong. Turns out he screwed up two steps but they were not laid out in a way that would not be confusing to him.

So yeah, don't ever expect the majority to root, let alone install a ROM, when they see what social rejects they have to deal with on XDA.

This actually brings to mind a great novel from Michael Chricton named "airframe", where Casey Singleton of Norton Aircraft explains to her assistant about the lead engineers being stingy, when she says "their bodies have grown up, but their minds are stuck at the childish age when they discovered toys, and that is where they remain".

 

[jamezr]

May be some people are new to android and don't feel the need. Also if you are a newbie and end up going to XDA forums for hacking stuff, expect to be ridiculed, looked down upon, berated by all the god complex guys there who think anyone who comes there must have two PHDs in software engineering. First they absolutely suck at writing proper instructions without skipping something that seems minor to them but would be crucial to a newbie, then if that poor newbie asks them something, well, i can imagine them all frothing at their mouths.

I was reading the AOKP thread once to figure out something and saw this one guy posting about his reboot issue and there were 3 pages of name calling and berating instead of one simple post that gives him the answer in 2 lines. I decided to PM him and helped out to figure what was going wrong. Turns out he screwed up two steps but they were not laid out in a way that would not be confusing to him.

So yeah, don't ever expect the majority to root, let alone install a ROM, when they see what social rejects they have to deal with on XDA.

that is awful! That should never happen.......some people are just jerks.
I have not had that happen to me.....most of the people on the XDA forums I am on are only there to help.

 

[mattopotamus]

May be some people are new to android and don't feel the need. Also if you are a newbie and end up going to XDA forums for hacking stuff, expect to be ridiculed, looked down upon, berated by all the god complex guys there who think anyone who comes there must have two PHDs in software engineering. First they absolutely suck at writing proper instructions without skipping something that seems minor to them but would be crucial to a newbie, then if that poor newbie asks them something, well, i can imagine them all frothing at their mouths.

I was reading the AOKP thread once to figure out something and saw this one guy posting about his reboot issue and there were 3 pages of name calling and berating instead of one simple post that gives him the answer in 2 lines. I decided to PM him and helped out to figure what was going wrong. Turns out he screwed up two steps but they were not laid out in a way that would not be confusing to him.

So yeah, don't ever expect the majority to root, let alone install a ROM, when they see what social rejects they have to deal with on XDA.

So true, and the bad thing is when you google "rooting 'X' phone" they are the first website that pops up. It really is a deterrent.

 

[KentuckyHouse]

you just spoke a different language to me haha. That still does not explain why you would want to do that. Wouldn't the ideal setup be getting the phone the way you like it and leave it that way or tweak it? Why change the layout entirely on a day to day basis?

LOL...yeah, it can be a bit of odd language to someone that hasn't heard the terminology before.

Different ROMs offer different things. Some people like a stock ROM that has all the bloat removed and that's it. Others want the most forward-thinking, do it all ROM that's cutting edge in it's abilities. And then there are people like me that want to try both.

Stock ROMs that are just debloated versions of the carrier ROMs are the most stable. They're going to give the user that needs stability the best experience, while keeping the things that the phone maker included (such as all the bells and whistles that Samsung likes to try on it's phones).

Custom ROMs, like CM or AOSP/AOKP, are pushing the limits of what's possible. It's all about giving the user the ability to do things the OEM never envisioned (or didn't implement). The problem with these, at least at first, is that they can be a bit unstable and even simple things like the camera may not work correctly. But these bugs usually get ironed out over time until you're left with a ROM that is not only stable, but amazing in it's features.

By having a Nandroid of both of these (a Nandroid backup literally backs up the entire phone...layout, options, everything...thus why it's so large), you can switch from one to the other in just a couple of minutes. So, lets say you're a user that needs the stability of the stock ROM during the work day, but want the bells and whistles of the custom ROM on the weekends or at night. Just boot into recovery and flash whichever one you need and you're good to go.

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May be some people are new to android and don't feel the need. Also if you are a newbie and end up going to XDA forums for hacking stuff, expect to be ridiculed, looked down upon, berated by all the god complex guys there who think anyone who comes there must have two PHDs in software engineering. First they absolutely suck at writing proper instructions without skipping something that seems minor to them but would be crucial to a newbie, then if that poor newbie asks them something, well, i can imagine them all frothing at their mouths.

I was reading the AOKP thread once to figure out something and saw this one guy posting about his reboot issue and there were 3 pages of name calling and berating instead of one simple post that gives him the answer in 2 lines. I decided to PM him and helped out to figure what was going wrong. Turns out he screwed up two steps but they were not laid out in a way that would not be confusing to him.

So yeah, don't ever expect the majority to root, let alone install a ROM, when they see what social rejects they have to deal with on XDA.

This actually brings to mind a great novel from Michael Chricton named "airframe", where Casey Singleton of Norton Aircraft explains to her assistant about the lead engineers being stingy, when she says "their bodies have grown up, but their minds are stuck at the childish age when they discovered toys, and that is where they remain".

I completely get what you're saying here. And you're right.

There's one developer over on XDA that treats his users with such disdain that I won't flash his ROMs, even though they're generally considered the best for that particular phone. I won't name him, but honestly, he's a complete douche.

The worst part is, he has two threads for a particular ROM...one is the development thread and you're only supposed to post thing in that thread that pertain to advancing the ROM. That's it. If you post one little question, you get slammed and shamed. It's stupid. Of course, if you post how great the ROM is and how amazing the developer is and you thank him for his work, he doesn't do anything but say thanks.

The second thread he has is supposed to be for support and questions about the ROM. Unfortunately, if you ask a question in that thread (which is what it's for), you get hit with the "why don't you search?" question or " this has been answered a hundred times!" It's infuriating and has made me decide that no matter how good his ROMs are, it's not worth the hassle of dealing with him.

 

[sentinelsx]

LOL...yeah, it can be a bit of odd language to someone that hasn't heard the terminology before.

Different ROMs offer different things. Some people like a stock ROM that has all the bloat removed and that's it. Others want the most forward-thinking, do it all ROM that's cutting edge in it's abilities. And then there are people like me that want to try both.

Stock ROMs that are just debloated versions of the carrier ROMs are the most stable. They're going to give the user that needs stability the best experience, while keeping the things that the phone maker included (such as all the bells and whistles that Samsung likes to try on it's phones).

Custom ROMs, like CM or AOSP/AOKP, are pushing the limits of what's possible. It's all about giving the user the ability to do things the OEM never envisioned (or didn't implement). The problem with these, at least at first, is that they can be a bit unstable and even simple things like the camera may not work correctly. But these bugs usually get ironed out over time until you're left with a ROM that is not only stable, but amazing in it's features.

By having a Nandroid of both of these (a Nandroid backup literally backs up the entire phone...layout, options, everything...thus why it's so large), you can switch from one to the other in just a couple of minutes. So, lets say you're a user that needs the stability of the stock ROM during the work day, but want the bells and whistles of the custom ROM on the weekends or at night. Just boot into recovery and flash whichever one you need and you're good to go.

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I completely get what you're saying here. And you're right.

There's one developer over on XDA that treats his users with such disdain that I won't flash his ROMs, even though they're generally considered the best for that particular phone. I won't name him, but honestly, he's a complete douche.

The worst part is, he has two threads for a particular ROM...one is the development thread and you're only supposed to post thing in that thread that pertain to advancing the ROM. That's it. If you post one little question, you get slammed and shamed. It's stupid. Of course, if you post how great the ROM is and how amazing the developer is and you thank him for his work, he doesn't do anything but say thanks.

The second thread he has is supposed to be for support and questions about the ROM. Unfortunately, if you ask a question in that thread (which is what it's for), you get hit with the "why don't you search?" question or " this has been answered a hundred times!" It's infuriating and has made me decide that no matter how good his ROMs are, it's not worth the hassle of dealing with him.

Are you talking about task? haha!

I admire his development work. I never bother to ask him questions though. Instead i just search around or test stuff because him and his henchmen are terrible to deal with. Too many people have dealt with their wrath from what i have seen. Just like the event i described. Thankfully i have been flashing since i had a captivate so i know to read the instructions at least 10 times and figure out any thing missing or vague before i proceed but i do not expect anyone else to do that. I appreciate that he is a busy man but if he has time to post 2 pages of drivel, he certainly has 30 seconds to answer something that is second nature to him. I don't get the point.

And yeah, the "support" threads are usually "search that 1000 page thread with a million posts to find what you are asking". At which point many just say "***** it, not worth it" and go back. Seriously, those guys lack a lot in people skills.

It has come to the point where a local cellphone thread has more helpful answers about his ROM on the S3 than the XDA "support" thread itself. Funny ain't it.

 

[MRU]

You don't have to root an Android phone to make it "work". Also over 90% of customizations on Android can be done by anyone without rooting. its just a matter of installing the replacement app from play store.

rooting is actually for hardcore geeks who probably want to flash different roms, overclocking etc.

that was my point

 

[chagla]

This sums up a lot of Android fanatics, actually.

Rooting is not acceptable to a lot of people with security-sensitive positions. "Root isn't that insecure?" Tell that to my IT department. I'm not getting fired because I want my phone to look like Iron Man or because I don't want to see a few banner ads (especially when you can get rid of them when you actually PAY for apps). The phone should work as intended when I take it out of the box... or it isn't the phone for me.

It's sort of like modifying a car - if you have to spend time modding it to make it work like you want it to, then you should have purchased a different car to begin with.

and this sums up iphone fanatics quite nicely.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FL7yD-0pqZg

You see, how YOU use YOUR phone is different from the way I use MY phone. so what is a manufacturer to do? clearly they wont market a jailbroken iphone or rooted Android phone. It is UP TO THE USER whether they want to jailbreak/root. implying that if you root/jb your phone then phone is somehow defective is flawed logic. every phone works out of the box as manufacturer intended (it makes calls, does other things). you may like (or dislike) it. but then as a USER, YOU have the option to root/jb if you don't like factory settings.

 

[sentinelsx]

and this sums up iphone users quite nicely.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FL7yD-0pqZg

You see, how YOU use YOUR phone is different from the way I use MY phone. so what is a manufacturer to do? clearly they wont market a jailbroken iphone or rooted Android phone. It is UP TO THE USER whether they want to jailbreak/root. implying that if you root/jb your phone then phone is somehow defective is flawed logic. every phone works out of the box as manufacturer intended (it makes calls, does other things). you may like (or dislike) it. but then as a USER, YOU have the option to root/jb if you don't like factory settings.

User = fanatic?

At least he didn't bunch the users with fanatics, but you went ahead and added everyone to your list. Good job being objective about it.

 

[KentuckyHouse]

Are you talking about task? haha!

I admire his development work. I never bother to ask him questions though. Instead i just search around or test stuff because him and his henchmen are terrible to deal with. Too many people have dealt with their wrath from what i have seen. Just like the event i described. Thankfully i have been flashing since i had a captivate so i know to read the instructions at least 10 times and figure out any thing missing or vague before i proceed but i do not expect anyone else to do that. I appreciate that he is a busy man but if he has time to post 2 pages of drivel, he certainly has 30 seconds to answer something that is second nature to him. I don't get the point.

And yeah, the "support" threads are usually "search that 1000 page thread with a million posts to find what you are asking". At which point many just say "***** it, not worth it" and go back. Seriously, those guys lack a lot in people skills.

It has come to the point where a local cellphone thread has more helpful answers about his ROM on the S3 than the XDA "support" thread itself. Funny ain't it.

LOL...yep, that's him. I agree with you...his work is amazing, but he's such a pain to deal with I've just decided to avoid him altogether. And you're right, if he spent half the time he spends referring people to the OP and just answered simple questions, a lot more would get done.

The best is how he expects new users to know how to report problems correctly. Say someone posts about an issue that's come up. He'll then come back and say, with an attitude, that just telling him that doesn't help him. He needs details. So the person comes back with more details. Then he'll bash them again and tell them he needs more than that, he needs a catlog. Nevermind that a new users doesn't know what a catlog is, let alone how to go about getting one and posting it.

He's just annoying.

 

[viskon]

While I generally agree with people not wanting to root their phones unless there is a need that stock does not meet, I also think that buying any device that has a locked bootloader or no root exploit is like buying a PC without admin rights ; sure 90%of the time you'd be fine, but the device never really is "yours". It is more like your locked down office computer.

 

[jamezr]

While I generally agree with people not wanting to root their phones unless there is a need that stock does not meet, I also think that buying any device that has a locked bootloader or no root exploit is like buying a PC without admin rights ; sure 90%of the time you'd be fine, but the device never really is "yours". It is more like your locked down office computer.

I agree with most of what you said......BUT the difference is if you buy the phone outright for say $600....then the carrier will unlock the phone and it is your do with what you like....you have admin access....the device is yours. But if you buy a phone for say $199 on a 2 year contract....the carrier most likely not unlock your phone or give you the unlock codes until the contract is satisfied....

 

[viskon]

I agree with most of what you said......BUT the difference is if you buy the phone outright for say $600....then the carrier will unlock the phone and it is your do with what you like....you have admin access....the device is yours. But if you buy a phone for say $199 on a 2 year contract....the carrier most likely not unlock your phone or give you the unlock codes until the contract is satisfied....

A carrier unlock - I may be wrong - just allows you to change your service provider. That is, with carrier unlock, I can move my off contact phone from Tmobile to ATT.

But if the phone has no root exploit, you still are stuck with the features the phone manufacturer saddled you with. If I wanted to unlock my device by sliding my finger across the screen, I wouldn't be able to do that without having access at the kernel level.

 

[sentinelsx]

While I generally agree with people not wanting to root their phones unless there is a need that stock does not meet, I also think that buying any device that has a locked bootloader or no root exploit is like buying a PC without admin rights ; sure 90%of the time you'd be fine, but the device never really is "yours". It is more like your locked down office computer.

I don't know how to renovate my home by myself. I can't mod a car. I don't mess with my pc.

Guess I own nothing so far

 

[viskon]

I don't know how to renovate my home by myself. I can't mod a car. I don't mess with my pc.

Guess I own nothing so far

Point is that you can, if you want to.

 

[sentinelsx]

Point is that you can, if you want to.

I can also learn software engineering and unlock that bootloader

 

[jamezr]

A carrier unlock - I may be wrong - just allows you to change your service provider. That is, with carrier unlock, I can move my off contact phone from Tmobile to ATT.

But if the phone has no root exploit, you still are stuck with the features the phone manufacturer saddled you with. If I wanted to unlock my device by sliding my finger across the screen, I wouldn't be able to do that without having access at the kernel level.

it was my understanding that they will unlock your boot-loader if requested.....

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I can also learn software engineering and unlock that bootloader

Please do so....we could use your help unlocking boot loaders....

 

[daveathall]

I have a MacBook Pro and find that the instructions to root aren't not that intuitive, I am also nervous of breaking my perfectly (for me) working phone. I have been happy with my (so far) three Android phones and have found no reason to root. I didn't jailbreak any of the 4 iPhones that I owned either.

 

[viskon]

I can also learn software engineering and unlock that bootloader

Or just buy a Nexus