Another "iPad-Killer" to add to the trash-heap

[KeriJane]

Got any facts to back that up?

(to back up my assertion that HP is selling SLATE tablets at a huge loss)

Certainly.

It's called MATH.

Let's see.

HP is going to build 9,000 of these Turkeys.

HP apparently is going to charge about $800 each, minus discounts for angry customers.

So, without any discounts at all, HP will take in $7,200.000.00.
IF they sell all 9,000 and none are returned.

Presumably, the Manufacturing Costs will be at least half of that.
Let's just say HP is managing to produce them for 25% of the final cost. (most unlikely)
That's $1,800,000.00. to manufacture and it's probably double that or more.

What is Microsoft's cut? They aren't supplying Win7 Tablet Edition for free, you know.
Let's say $25 per unit. That's $225,000.00.
Shipping, warehousing and logistics? You get the idea. It adds up fast.

OK, so we're at about 5 million dollars in the clear and it's really probably less than half of that. A LOT less. My guess would be 1/10th of that.

There is no way they did the R&D on that thing for 5 million.
Or for that matter, if Santa Claus and MS gave them everything for FREE, and FedEx shipped direct for free, and they got to keep the whole 7.2 million free and clear, they still lost money. A WHOLE LOT of money.

I'd bet HP's got at least 100 million into development, and that doesn't include the money they paid for Palm.

If I'm wrong by a factor of 10, they still lost!

I'm not even considering Advertising, Support, Returns, Taxes, Bribes, Discounts and Retailer expenses. My scenario is pure HP to consumer.

So, that's my reasoning.

Have Fun,
Enjoy your Slate!
Keri

 

[jav6454]

So, that's my reasoning.

Have Fun,
Enjoy your Slate!
Keri

This is called made-up math. When we mean facts to back it up, we don't mean made up or out of the arse numbers, we mean cold hard numbers with a reputable source behind them, as in an HP balance sheet.

If you don't have that... well, your whole "math" means nothing but contribute to le árt du trölling or fanboy arguments. Either one, you choose.

 

[KeriJane]

This is called made-up math. When we mean facts to back it up, we don't mean made up or out of the arse numbers, we mean cold hard numbers with a reputable source behind them, as in an HP balance sheet.

If you don't have that... well, your whole "math" means nothing but contribute to le árt du trölling or fanboy arguments. Either one, you choose.

So you are asserting that HP can make more than 7.2 million dollars by selling 9,000 things for $800 each?

Or are you trying to assert that creating a whole new tablet computer from scratch can be done for less than 7.2 million, minus expenses?

Last time I checked, HP makes pretty decent Hardware. Making something completely new costs a whole lot of money.

A figure of 100 million sounds fair, considering HP put considerable time and talent into this endeavor. Off by x10 and it's still 10 million.

An advertising campaign alone can get into tens of millions.

Confused,
Keri

 

[jav6454]

So you are asserting that HP can make more than 7.2 million dollars by selling 9,000 things for $800 each?

Or are you trying to assert that creating a whole new tablet computer from scratch can be done for less than 7.2 million, minus expenses?

Last time I checked, HP makes pretty decent Hardware. Making something completely new costs a whole lot of money.

A figure of 100 million sounds fair, considering HP put considerable time and talent into this endeavor. Off by x10 and it's still 10 million.

An advertising campaign alone can get into tens of millions.

Confused,
Keri

The only few facts are the ones we know. However, you do not know how much HP is spending on each one of these, you also don't know how much advertising is worth to them. You can't assume all that! Doing so is nothing that grasping straws and blatant fanboism to compare the iPad to it when it is not an iPad competitor nor is it marketed as such.

Seriously, stop it, it's sad.

 

[*LTD*]

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It's a failure anyway. Dicsussing numbers and other details is by now useless. There's a reason HP will reset the whole project to WebOS. It's a dud in its current form, and HP is well aware of this. Not sure about MS, though. They tend to be real slow on the uptake.

 

[andiwm2003]

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It's a failure anyway. Dicsussing numbers and other details is by now useless. There's a reason HP will reset the whole project to WebOS. It's a dud in its current form, and HP is well aware of this. Not sure about MS, though. They tend to be real slow on the uptake.

it's a failure when compared to the iPad. It's not a failure when HP learns from it and develops a great WebOS tablet. The future will tell.

However I'm surprised at the total numbers being so low. I would expect that if the device would be $800 a lot more people would want one just to try it out and to have it around the house/office. This tells me NOT that the device is crap but that HP never really marketed it. Even if it was crap with some marketing they certainly could have pushed 50 000 to 100 000 into the market.

I really believe HP recognizes the tablet market as important and just wanted a device out to learn. In parallel they bought Palm/WebOS and will bring a good device soon. This tablet market is all about time. The faster the better. A few million $$$ don't matter.

 

[Bernard SG]

HP is making this Windows tablet half-heartedly and only because Microsoft is pressuring them hard to do so. It's no surprise that the project is failing.
There is no doubt in my mind that Microsoft is trying to push the Windows/HP slate as THE iPad competitor. Obviously they don't say "iPad-killer", but that's pretty much the spirit.
Anyhow it's a very dumb project. Microsoft has real potential to grab a decent share of the tablet-PC pie in the future with something based on Windows Phone 7; but trying to put Windows Desktop on a tablet and calling it a product is absolutely boneheaded. They need to be patient and not just react thoughtlessly to everything Apple does.

 

[FX120]

I am personally interested in picking up a HP slate.

I have several programs that would be nice to be able to run on a thin, light weight tablet that cannot be replicated in the ipad enrivoment such as SMAART.

 

[Mr_Brightside_@]

I haven't even seen one outside of a store yet, nor do I know anyone who's bought one.

I know many people who have considered buying them, but none who have actually gone through with it. This is really making me wonder- who is buying all the iPads?

 

[Bernard SG]

^According to the sales figures, there should be 1% people who own an iPad in the USA. While impressive, this figure means chances are slim to see them in the wild. Moreover, apparently there's a lot of iPad owners that don't use it as a "on-the-go" device but mainly use it in the living room or something like that.
Places where you are most likely to see iPad would be airports and Starbucks.

 

[samcraig]

LTD - I have questions.

Why do you care so much? Why this constant need on this forum to slam products that aren't even in competition with your beloved Apple products? Why such ardent and perpetual glee over products that get reviews that don't measure up and such damnation of any negative comment about Apple.

I think it's because you are either very very young, or one of the most insecure Apple users on these forums. If you were secure - you wouldn't care so much about anything other than just enjoying your iPhone, iPad or whatever Apple stuff you own.

As I've said before. Relax. You don't have to worry. No one is going to sneak into your house and take all your Apple stuff away and FORCE you to use other technologies.

 

[garybUK]

RIM Playbook looking to shape up pretty good even better 'web experience' than the iPad..... should we chuck the iPad on that 'trash' heap of yours?

http://www.engadget.com/2010/11/16/blackberry-playbook-and-ipad-go-head-to-head-in-a-browsing-showd/

Of course i'm aware the video is made by RIM and we've not seen any proper comparisons yet, but it's food for thought.

 

[roadbloc]

(to back up my assertion that HP is selling SLATE tablets at a huge loss)i

Are you seriously saying that HP purposely made a loss?
These posts just get more and more far-fetched. Give me a break.

 

[Hawkeye411]

LTD - I have questions.

Why do you care so much? Why this constant need on this forum to slam products that aren't even in competition with your beloved Apple products? Why such ardent and perpetual glee over products that get reviews that don't measure up and such damnation of any negative comment about Apple.

I think it's because you are either very very young, or one of the most insecure Apple users on these forums. If you were secure - you wouldn't care so much about anything other than just enjoying your iPhone, iPad or whatever Apple stuff you own.

As I've said before. Relax. You don't have to worry. No one is going to sneak into your house and take all your Apple stuff away and FORCE you to use other technologies.

How exactly are comments like this related to the OP's thread? Why are you so negative? Why do you care to know why he cares so much?? Who cares how old he is ... He is making a comment about some news he read .... How could this possibly be related to his personality or his feelings of insecurity? Why do you care if he prefers Apple products over other products? His original post was providing information and his own preference. Do you REALLY think that he is afraid this someone is going to "force" him to switch technologies???

It's posts like yours that are making MacRumors less enjoyable. Stop being so negative and let the dude provide some news and his thoughts about the news. If you want .... make some comments with your opinions about the news or the product .... stop making comments about your beliefs of the OP's motives or his personality .. Let's discuss the technology and stop providing commentary about your opinions of the OP's personality!!!

GEESH!!!!

 

[KeriJane]

Are you seriously saying that HP purposely made a loss?
These posts just get more and more far-fetched. Give me a break.

HP certainly didn't intend to lose money on their Slate when they started on it.

I'm sure HP fully intended to sell millions of the things at a reasonable profit. It's called "Economies of Scale".
if you make just one, it costs tens of millions or more. But if you make oh, say, 10 million of them, the development cost gets spread out and you can lower prices to near the cost of material, labor and incidental costs.

But sometime after the very expensive development process begun, something changed. HP certainly did not have a production goal of less than a million units.

Maybe they got a look at the iPad and said "Uh-Oh".
Maybe they got a look at how Win7 Tablet Edition actually performed on it and said "Uh-Oh".
Maybe both, maybe something else. I don't know.
They apparently decided to cut their losses and abort the Slate.
Then they decided to make a small batch, probably under pressure from Microsoft.

They would have to have built some first to find out. Prototypes of a thing like the Slate don't come cheap. You just can't throw some off-the-shelf parts together and try it out.

That initial batch of 9,000 are basically Prototypes and have cost HP a fortune.
MS may have subsidized part or all of the loss, but it's still a loss. A big one.

HP isn't in business to make losses. But they do make mistakes like anyone else.
It took guts to abort the Slate and cut losses. Why? Because selling a million TURKEYS that get returned and ruin their reputation is even more expensive than writing off the development costs before it gets into production.

Have Fun,
Enjoying my iPad immensely,
Keri

PS. Oprah likes the iPad too!

 

[*LTD*]

HP certainly didn't intend to lose money on their Slate when they started on it.

I'm sure HP fully intended to sell millions of the things at a reasonable profit. It's called "Economies of Scale".
if you make just one, it costs tens of millions or more. But if you make oh, say, 10 million of them, the development cost gets spread out and you can lower prices to near the cost of material, labor and incidental costs.

But sometime after the very expensive development process begun, something changed. HP certainly did not have a production goal of less than a million units.

Maybe they got a look at the iPad and said "Uh-Oh".
Maybe they got a look at how Win7 Tablet Edition actually performed on it and said "Uh-Oh".
Maybe both, maybe something else. I don't know.
They apparently decided to cut their losses and abort the Slate.
Then they decided to make a small batch, probably under pressure from Microsoft.

They would have to have built some first to find out. Prototypes of a thing like the Slate don't come cheap. You just can't throw some off-the-shelf parts together and try it out.

That initial batch of 9,000 are basically Prototypes and have cost HP a fortune.
MS may have subsidized part or all of the loss, but it's still a loss. A big one.

HP isn't in business to make losses. But they do make mistakes like anyone else.
It took guts to abort the Slate and cut losses. Why? Because selling a million TURKEYS that get returned and ruin their reputation is even more expensive than writing off the development costs before it gets into production.

Have Fun,
Enjoying my iPad immensely,
Keri

PS. Oprah likes the iPad too!

This is as good an answer as any.

It's simple.

HP would rather take an early loss and abort a potentially serious embarrassment when the iPad comparisons start rolling in in earnest. Selling what few they have will recoup some of the costs, and tacking on a little "we meant to do that!" disclaimer will at least fool half the people half the time.

But whatever. It no longer matters. HP is currently no better a force in the tablet/slate market than the other also-rans. Given their history of creating products to compete in Apple-led/Apple-dominated markets that give the distinct impression that they don't really give a damn about the user or their image, they'll probably half-ass WebOS too. HP is too deep in the licensing game to really care about shaking up markets with something new or revolutionary. Their business model all but forbids it. They're one of the most uninteresting and uninspiring companies in tech - at least in the consumer sector. Boring as hell. Maybe if they started making a custom OS tied to tightly controlled and well-designed hardware they'd be worth considering. Of course, this takes serious balls. Years and years of pushing low-cost commodity junkware loaded with whatever versions of a ********* OS, however, has shrunk them.

 

[jav6454]

HP certainly didn't intend to lose money on their Slate when they started on it.

I'm sure HP fully intended to sell millions of the things at a reasonable profit. It's called "Economies of Scale".

It's called "I made up a bunch of numbers and BS". Come on, say it. I understand.

Also, that Oprah likes it is like saying Justin Timberlake likes it. Maybe someone out there cares, but I don't and nor do the other non-fanboy people. Seriously.

Stop comparing everything others make to Apple. I won't even bother with *LTD*'s post because it's well, pointless to argue with such blinded fanboy.

 

[Rodimus Prime]

HP certainly didn't intend to lose money on their Slate when they started on it...stuff

Jav hit it on the head on part of it.
I would suggest you look up how R&D is done at large companies and see that often they make short run products at a loss as part of the R&D. As I said before the slate to me looks like a step in the R&D of that design to them. They did a small run to get an idea of the true cost of making something like that in terms of power. THere are a lot of things you can not flush out until you do small runs.

They flush out some more bugs and prepare for the next thing. It is safe to say that buying Palm is easily on that list of next things and they will take WebOS for the tablet.

It's called "I made up a bunch of numbers and BS". Come on, say it. I understand.

Also, that Oprah likes it is like saying Justin Timberlake likes it. Maybe someone out there cares, but I don't and nor do the other non-fanboy people. Seriously.

Stop comparing everything others make to Apple. I won't even bother with *LTD*'s post because it's well, pointless to argue with such blinded fanboy.

There is a reason LTD is on my Ignore list. His post being gone cause no lose to en and really prevents me from adding to the off top pointless off topic debts.