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Anti Virus

Asking about anti-virus on an Apple-specific Forum is like waving a red flag in front of a bull - I celebrate your chutzpah!

There will always be die-hard Macolytes who insist MacOS is impervious and doesn't need it (largely based on their experience from when the OS was a fractional piece of the marketplace), and those who may have come from Windows, and feel that any AV is just required because Stuff Happens.

MacOS's marketshare is significantly higher than it once was and has become an attractive target, especially as the internet and emails open up more opportunities to cause havoc - and especially to those who still think they're impervious. Apple has been good about applying patches (sorry...'updates') as security issues have come to the fore - but not always proactively. Plus, while some issues may not be able to affect Macs directly, there is every possibility that the Mac can be a conduit from which users can inadvertently pass on problems to others - through documents, hyperlinks, etc the user forwards from other sources.

It is for that reason - as I work with individuals and companies running on a selection of OSs / apps of various vintages, trade information back and forth, and do research online as part of my work - that I have an AV on my Mac. A bit of a 'Belt and Suspenders' move, just in case. Being a good IT citizen, as it were.

That said, there are some AV / Malware / Clean up app manufacturers out there whose products are not, ahem...all that they should be, or as well-written as they could be. I agree that badly-written AV apps can drag down performance - but that's hardly just the purview of this kind of app.
And because of that - and the red flag nature of discussing Mac AV with fellow users, I usually suggest to folks who ask me about AV on Macs to check the responses on Forums like this one, but also definitely explore two 3rd Party testing sites that aren't beholden to any manufacturer or advertiser.

These are AV Comparatives (https://www.av-comparatives.org/consumer/test-results/macos/) and AVTest (https://www.av-test.org/en/antivirus/home-macos/).

And, for what's it's worth, I'm currently using BitDefender for Mac. And the occasional use of the free version Malwarebytes.
 
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Bazza1 said:
Asking about anti-virus on an Apple-specific Forum is like waving a red flag in front of a bull - I celebrate your chutzpah!

There will always be die-hard Macolytes who insist MacOS is impervious and doesn't need it (largely based on their experience from when the OS was a fractional piece of the marketplace), and those who may have come from Windows, and feel that any AV is just required because Stuff Happens.

MacOS's marketshare is significantly higher than it once was and has become an attractive target, especially as the internet and emails open up more opportunities to cause havoc - and especially to those who still think they're impervious. Apple has been good about applying patches (sorry...'updates') as security issues have come to the fore - but not always proactively. Plus, while some issues may not be able to affect Macs directly, there is every possibility that the Mac can be a conduit from which users can inadvertently pass on problems to others - through documents, hyperlinks, etc the user forwards from other sources.

It is for that reason - as I work with individuals and companies running on a selection of OSs / apps of various vintages, trade information back and forth, and do research online as part of my work - that I have an AV on my Mac. A bit of a 'Belt and Suspenders' move, just in case. Being a good IT citizen, as it were.

That said, there are some AV / Malware / Clean up app manufacturers out there whose products are not, ahem...all that they should be, or as well-written as they could be. I agree that badly-written AV apps can drag down performance - but that's hardly just the purview of this kind of app.
And because of that - and the red flag nature of discussing Mac AV with fellow users, I usually suggest to folks who ask me about AV on Macs to check the responses on Forums like this one, but also definitely explore two 3rd Party testing sites that aren't beholden to any manufacturer or advertiser.

These are AV Comparatives (https://www.av-comparatives.org/consumer/test-results/macos/) and AVTest (https://www.av-test.org/en/antivirus/home-macos/).

And, for what's it's worth, I'm currently using BitDefender for Mac. And the occasional use of the free version Malwarebytes.
Click to expand...
Thank you for your comprehensive post, Bazza1

Maybe you'd like to post your views for my friend, who has raised a question here - at the heart of the Apple community?

Anti-virus anti-malware protection for IP… - Apple Community

discussions.apple.com discussions.apple.com

I considered cutting and pasting myself, but then considered that I'd probably be breaking someone's terms of business or some such!

At least Bitdefender is in my Apple App Store! 😅

Thanks for posting.
 
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Brawdy14 said:
Thank you for your comprehensive post, Bazza1

Maybe you'd like to post your views for my friend, who has raised a question here - at the heart of the Apple community?

Anti-virus anti-malware protection for IP… - Apple Community

discussions.apple.com discussions.apple.com

I considered cutting and pasting myself, but then considered that I'd probably be breaking someone's terms of business or some such!

At least Bitdefender is in my Apple App Store! 😅

Thanks for posting.
Click to expand...
Feel free to cut and paste to your heart's content. 👍🏻
 
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Bazza1 said:
Asking about anti-virus on an Apple-specific Forum is like waving a red flag in front of a bull - I celebrate your chutzpah!

There will always be die-hard Macolytes who insist MacOS is impervious and doesn't need it (largely based on their experience from when the OS was a fractional piece of the marketplace), and those who may have come from Windows, and feel that any AV is just required because Stuff Happens.

MacOS's marketshare is significantly higher than it once was and has become an attractive target, especially as the internet and emails open up more opportunities to cause havoc - and especially to those who still think they're impervious. Apple has been good about applying patches (sorry...'updates') as security issues have come to the fore - but not always proactively. Plus, while some issues may not be able to affect Macs directly, there is every possibility that the Mac can be a conduit from which users can inadvertently pass on problems to others - through documents, hyperlinks, etc the user forwards from other sources.

It is for that reason - as I work with individuals and companies running on a selection of OSs / apps of various vintages, trade information back and forth, and do research online as part of my work - that I have an AV on my Mac. A bit of a 'Belt and Suspenders' move, just in case. Being a good IT citizen, as it were.

That said, there are some AV / Malware / Clean up app manufacturers out there whose products are not, ahem...all that they should be, or as well-written as they could be. I agree that badly-written AV apps can drag down performance - but that's hardly just the purview of this kind of app.
And because of that - and the red flag nature of discussing Mac AV with fellow users, I usually suggest to folks who ask me about AV on Macs to check the responses on Forums like this one, but also definitely explore two 3rd Party testing sites that aren't beholden to any manufacturer or advertiser.

These are AV Comparatives (https://www.av-comparatives.org/consumer/test-results/macos/) and AVTest (https://www.av-test.org/en/antivirus/home-macos/).

And, for what's it's worth, I'm currently using BitDefender for Mac. And the occasional use of the free version Malwarebytes.
Click to expand...

And all: It's not that macs are immune to viruses, or the idea that there has never been a virus written to attack the mac. All that is BS. But then you look at the penetration of viruses, and the damage they do, the Windows world sure wins all the awards.

I had a mac with a virus. It was back in the IIcx time of my life. I was the librarian for the local mac club, and got potentially the very first mac virus.

They called it 'Scores'.

It was a nuisance more than anything. I remember the day I found I had the tell tale file that signified you had the infection. The hair in my neck stood up, and I had a cold chill. I WAS A VICTIM.

But, so far, I've had some malware type attempts, but no 'virus' per say. And that's after using a MBP to support multiple Windows clients for multiple years. I had used that MBP to offload files from known infected hard drives of unlucky clients. I didn't fear infection, and never had one. Obviously that will change as people get more creative in writing malicious software.

So, *my* experience was that antivirus was a resource hog, and really, in the end, not worth it. I ALWAYS ran full protection on all of my Windows systems, because, let's be honest, they were a steak in the middle of a cage of lions. Not running any kind of protection on a Windows machine is just, well, insane.

Running AV on a mac?

Let's play 'What If'...

Someone releases a nasty virus for macOS. It's doozy... It writes over your drive, and sends copies of itself to everyone in your contacts, and calls your mother ugly.

How long will it take an antivirus company to update their system to detect and eradicate it? A week? Two weeks? Yeah, but your system is a smoking crater, and you are getting furious phone calls from nearly everyone in your contact list. Would you feel better if your system ran like it was 5 years old constantly because you didn't want to catch a virus, and it was still infected anyway?

Living 'on the edge', and hoping that scenario doesn't happen is better for most than waiting for their antivirus to do its thing. Calling them 'Macolytes' is rather offensive. It's being a realist. My experience with Norton was abysmal, and largely just a paranoid waste of time. Call me what you want, but protecting myself against something that is so unlikely to happen is saving me money, sanity, and time.

I heard someone was selling insurance to 'protect' people from space junk. There are groups traveling the country selling 'whole body MRI scans'. On and on... My 'exposure' to a nasty virus is really low. If I lost a machine because it's wiped, or needs to be wiped, then so be it... Running around with tin foil hats (hard hats?) and aluminum underwear is just silly...

If people really wannt to be worked up over something, ask your bank if they have adequate protection. Your store, gym, workplace, cable company, city/town, state, and when was the last time you changed your wifi password? There are real things to be worked up about... *sigh*
 
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PinkyMacGodess said:
And all: It's not that macs are immune to viruses, or the idea that there has never been a virus written to attack the mac. All that is BS. But then you look at the penetration of viruses, and the damage they do, the Windows world sure wins all the awards.

I had a mac with a virus. It was back in the IIcx time of my life. I was the librarian for the local mac club, and got potentially the very first mac virus.

They called it 'Scores'.

It was a nuisance more than anything. I remember the day I found I had the tell tale file that signified you had the infection. The hair in my neck stood up, and I had a cold chill. I WAS A VICTIM.

But, so far, I've had some malware type attempts, but no 'virus' per say. And that's after using a MBP to support multiple Windows clients for multiple years. I had used that MBP to offload files from known infected hard drives of unlucky clients. I didn't fear infection, and never had one. Obviously that will change as people get more creative in writing malicious software.

So, *my* experience was that antivirus was a resource hog, and really, in the end, not worth it. I ALWAYS ran full protection on all of my Windows systems, because, let's be honest, they were a steak in the middle of a cage of lions. Not running any kind of protection on a Windows machine is just, well, insane.

Running AV on a mac?

Let's play 'What If'...

Someone releases a nasty virus for macOS. It's doozy... It writes over your drive, and sends copies of itself to everyone in your contacts, and calls your mother ugly.

How long will it take an antivirus company to update their system to detect and eradicate it? A week? Two weeks? Yeah, but your system is a smoking crater, and you are getting furious phone calls from nearly everyone in your contact list. Would you feel better if your system ran like it was 5 years old constantly because you didn't want to catch a virus, and it was still infected anyway?

Living 'on the edge', and hoping that scenario doesn't happen is better for most than waiting for their antivirus to do its thing. Calling them 'Macolytes' is rather offensive. It's being a realist. My experience with Norton was abysmal, and largely just a paranoid waste of time. Call me what you want, but protecting myself against something that is so unlikely to happen is saving me money, sanity, and time.

I heard someone was selling insurance to 'protect' people from space junk. There are groups traveling the country selling 'whole body MRI scans'. On and on... My 'exposure' to a nasty virus is really low. If I lost a machine because it's wiped, or needs to be wiped, then so be it... Running around with tin foil hats (hard hats?) and aluminum underwear is just silly...

If people really wannt to be worked up over something, ask your bank if they have adequate protection. Your store, gym, workplace, cable company, city/town, state, and when was the last time you changed your wifi password? There are real things to be worked up about... *sigh*
Click to expand...
Experience may vary, sure.

But my AV updates probably daily. I know its not all going to be crucial, but its there - just in case. And this is all these companies are responsible for - ensuring their app works. And some do it better than others. Feel free to do your research - as one should do with any product. But they aren't also busy defending themselves from anti-trust allegations, or worried about the PR mayhem of where their devices are being built, or slapping some paint on a product for a 'Squirrel!' moment.
Yes, Apple updates itself against security threats as well - and usually after the issue has been reported in the Media. And usually that's reporting on a find from a 3rd Party - not Apple.

Meanwhile, I'm guessing you don't insure yourself, your car or home either? Because, y'know, that's just a waste of time and money and nothing will ever happen. Chances are always low - but its the time lost that matters. Or when your choice to be marginally inconvenienced may adversely affect others.

I'm glad too that you can afford to lose a '...machine because it's wiped, or needs to be wiped...' Not all of us have luxury.... *sigh*.
 
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Bazza1 said:
Experience may vary, sure.

But my AV updates probably daily. I know its not all going to be crucial, but its there - just in case. And this is all these companies are responsible for - ensuring their app works. And some do it better than others. Feel free to do your research - as one should do with any product. But they aren't also busy defending themselves from anti-trust allegations, or worried about the PR mayhem of where their devices are being built, or slapping some paint on a product for a 'Squirrel!' moment.
Yes, Apple updates itself against security threats as well - and usually after the issue has been reported in the Media. And usually that's reporting on a find from a 3rd Party - not Apple.

Meanwhile, I'm guessing you don't insure yourself, your car or home either? Because, y'know, that's just a waste of time and money and nothing will ever happen. Chances are always low - but its the time its not that matters. Or when your choice to be marginally inconvenienced may adversely affect others.

I'm glad too that you can afford to lose a '...machine because it's wiped, or needs to be wiped...' Not all of us have luxury.... *sigh*.
Click to expand...

So, do you pay by the fish, or by the ounce for those red herring? You are entitled to your own opinion. In a world awash with panic and lies, and more than enough excuses to stay in bed everyday, scaring people about computer viruses is just abusive.

Sure, use antivirus if you want. They do make the software, so *someone* has to be buying it.


So Norton. Updated daily. Wanted to SCAN daily too. Each scan took an untold number of hours, watching their cute graphic crawl through the filesystem. Then there were the full scans. Oh, and the falses that happened. Then the lockups. Oh, and the notifications that I needed to send them more money. And the whole dance to get the update for the new 'pay period', and often it was the same version I already had, but I had to download the 'latest/greatest'. Then the time I got an odd error, and had to uninstall the software, and reinstall. And the reinstall failed. And more drama. And it would refuse to scan certain files. And on and on... I mean, I hope it's gotten better, because really, the 'Norton Dance' got to be almost all I was doing. 'Unobtrusive'. What a concept... It's too bad it didn't run like it did on Windows. Norton on Windows seemed to be so much less drama filled, less 'In My Face'. Maybe it's the 'mac Filesystem', like they kept bleating whenever people complained about the many problems. Maybe it wasn't. *shrug*

You do you...

Drop the herring.
 
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chabig said:
That's not close to the same thing. Using AV software on a Mac is like buying hurricane insurance in Nebraska.
Click to expand...
Toto, we're not in Nebraska anymore.

Its no longer 1999, and we're not one of the very few using a fruit-colored toilet seat iBook G3 running OS 8.6 accessing a very static internet - no longer a 'waste of time' target for hackers.

Technology, those seeking to use it for less-benign reasons and the abilities of the internet have grown, as has the popularity of MacOS. The old-school Macolytes' traditional aversion to AV is dated. A good AV product that, well-built, that just runs quietly in the background and normally without user intervention, should be a matter of course and not have some clutching their Steve Jobs photos, chanting 'You're holding it wrong. You're holding it wrong'.
 
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PinkyMacGodess said:
So, do you pay by the fish, or by the ounce for those red herring? You are entitled to your own opinion. In a world awash with panic and lies, and more than enough excuses to stay in bed everyday, scaring people about computer viruses is just abusive.

Sure, use antivirus if you want. They do make the software, so *someone* has to be buying it.


So Norton. Updated daily. Wanted to SCAN daily too. Each scan took an untold number of hours, watching their cute graphic crawl through the filesystem. Then there were the full scans. Oh, and the falses that happened. Then the lockups. Oh, and the notifications that I needed to send them more money. And the whole dance to get the update for the new 'pay period', and often it was the same version I already had, but I had to download the 'latest/greatest'. Then the time I got an odd error, and had to uninstall the software, and reinstall. And the reinstall failed. And more drama. And it would refuse to scan certain files. And on and on... I mean, I hope it's gotten better, because really, the 'Norton Dance' got to be almost all I was doing. 'Unobtrusive'. What a concept... It's too bad it didn't run like it did on Windows. Norton on Windows seemed to be so much less drama filled, less 'In My Face'. Maybe it's the 'mac Filesystem', like they kept bleating whenever people complained about the many problems. Maybe it wasn't. *shrug*

You do you...

Drop the herring.
Click to expand...
And likewise your opinion.

Like I said, '...And some do it better than others. Feel free to do your research - as one should do with any product.'

Frankly, I wouldn't touch Norton (Mac or Windows) with a barge pole. Its been an 'issue' AV since the late 90s. Research might have saved you the angst. And one bad app doesn't make them all bad. Heck, if that was the case, there's a whack of Apple apps I'd be looking at uninstalling. But can't.

The old-school basement hobbyist computer nerd mentality does no favours to Apple, or its current users.

A herring will feed you, a head suck in the sand will only cause suffocation.

I'll do me and you do you.
 
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i dont understand the point of antiviruses these days. Most OS have their own protections. the mac system volume is completely sealed

And people who make malware will likely test it against these popular AVs to make sure it gets through so what's even the point besides slowing down computers and scaring people with big red boxes just because there are TRACKING COOKIES OMGG halpp!.
 
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Apple makes a very valid point that they vet all the apps in the their Stores, to ensure they do no harm to their devices and to protect the customers.

I'll just wait here to hear back on the response when folks write Tim and remind him to remove all the AV and Malware apps from the Stores. Because, y'know, Apple products don't need them.
 
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Brawdy14 said:
Do you have reservations with regard to posting on the ASC forums yourself?
Click to expand...
I tend to stay away, myself. It's not a great set of people who show up there, in my experience. Every little part of it seems to have some resident "expert" gatekeeper. And then just a huge layer of very low-information users posting "me too" comments. I've had a problem or two solved through ASC forums over the years, but I just tend to come here instead.
 
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ignatius345 said:
I tend to stay away, myself. It's not a great set of people who show up there, in my experience. Every little part of it seems to have some resident "expert" gatekeeper. And then just a huge layer of very low-information users posting "me too" comments. I've had a problem or two solved through ASC forums over the years, but I just tend to come here instead.
Click to expand...
Thanks! 🙂
 
I've had ClamXav installed on a series of Macs over many years. I have not ever had any problems or concerns with it (keep in mind that I don't have the automatic scanning turned on, I use it for on-demand scans).

The software was acquired by a commercial developer a few years ago; perhaps the switch from donationware to subscriptions angered some users. In any case, ClamXav is essentially a GUI for functions that can be accessed through Terminal. So anybody who doesn't want to pay might find it worthwhile to spend some time using their preferred search engine...
 
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I use Norton, because I got a free subscription for a year on three devices.
I've been using my MacBook for like 2 months now and it has never found a single virus.
 
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I've been using ClamX AV since it was free/donation requested. I donated and since it went commercial I have received a full legit license, gratis. Nice! I use it mostly for 'on demand' scans and Sentry just ticks along in the background. For me its best feature is that I pretty much forget I'm even using an AV. Unfortunately for me I've been asked to advise a family member on getting a more 'featured' AV with anti-phishing etc, and so far I'm not seeing any real winners. User reviews for the major players are just a wasteland of dissatisfaction and woe. Maybe I'll just talk up XProtect and MRT..
 
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GloatGoat said:
I've been using ClamX AV since it was free/donation requested. I donated and since it went commercial I have received a full legit license, gratis. Nice! I use it mostly for 'on demand' scans and Sentry just ticks along in the background. For me its best feature is that I pretty much forget I'm even using an AV. Unfortunately for me I've been asked to advise a family member on getting a more 'featured' AV with anti-phishing etc, and so far I'm not seeing any real winners. User reviews for the major players are just a wasteland of dissatisfaction and woe. Maybe I'll just talk up XProtect and MRT..
Click to expand...
May I ask what version of ClamXAV you are using? Are you able to review comments here?
Not many people have 'liked' the product. That alone makes me suspicious.

Have you considered asking for advice on the Apple Support Communities (ASC) Forums?

Official Apple Support Community

Find answers with millions of other Apple users in our vibrant community. Search discussions or ask a question about your product.
discussions.apple.com discussions.apple.com

Worth a try! 👍
 
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Brawdy14 said:
May I ask what version of ClamXAV you are using? Are you able to review comments here?
Not many people have 'liked' the product. That alone makes me suspicious.

Have you considered asking for advice on the Apple Support Communities (ASC) Forums?

Official Apple Support Community

Find answers with millions of other Apple users in our vibrant community. Search discussions or ask a question about your product.
discussions.apple.com discussions.apple.com

Worth a try! 👍
Click to expand...
I'm using 3.2 and like I said, I'm pretty happy with the admittedly limited features, it does what I require.
I don't do Facebook though I will have a look at ASC, cheers!
 
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GloatGoat said:
I'm using 3.2 and like I said, I'm pretty happy with the admittedly limited features, it does what I require.
I don't do Facebook though I will have a look at ASC, cheers!
Click to expand...
Thank you, GG 🙂

I found this item for you, from a year or two ago https://osxdaily.com/2018/07/27/top-mac-malware-threats-presentation-video/

Good luck!

If you do post on the ASC, please return and post a link for us to follow - so we can gain an up-to-date insight into the current thinking from the ASC gurus! 😎
 
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