Any compelling reason to change to Ventura on 2017 iMac?

[SalisburySam]

My 2017 iMac came with Mojave. I changed to Monterey when some software, especially TurboTax, would no longer run on Mojave. I’ve gotten used to the differences such as the change from iTunes to Monterey equivalents but my iMac does seem a bit slower under Monterey sadly.

Now I’m getting update suggestions to go to Ventura. I’m asking folks here what I might expect to see that’s better than Monterey, and what might be worse on my iMac. I don’t envision changing out the iMac anytime soon…I really, really like the 27” all-in-one physical format. Just to set the environment, my iMac has 16GB RAM, 512GB SSD, Intel 4.2GHz i7 “Kaby Lake” processor, AMD Radeon Pro 580 with 8GB VRAM, and is Ethernet connected to my home’s 300mbps synchronous Internet service. I have three external hard drives for file storage and TimeMachine backups, one is 4TB and two others are 8TB each.

So for my hunk of hardware, what would Ventura add and what might I regret?

Thanks for any input.

 

[Fishrrman]

I don't see any compelling reason to upgrade, unless there's something that requires it.

Ventura changes the System Preferences all around (renamed to "settings").
I don't really care for how it looks, but that might just be me.

One other thing.
Do you realize you can STILL RUN iTunes with Monterey?
You need the free "Retroactive" utility.
It will install a modified copy of iTunes that will work just fine.
Works on Ventura, as well.

 

[Rich B22]

My 2017 iMac came with Mojave. I changed to Monterey when some software, especially TurboTax, would no longer run on Mojave. I’ve gotten used to the differences such as the change from iTunes to Monterey equivalents but my iMac does seem a bit slower under Monterey sadly.

Now I’m getting update suggestions to go to Ventura. I’m asking folks here what I might expect to see that’s better than Monterey, and what might be worse on my iMac. I don’t envision changing out the iMac anytime soon…I really, really like the 27” all-in-one physical format. Just to set the environment, my iMac has 16GB RAM, 512GB SSD, Intel 4.2GHz i7 “Kaby Lake” processor, AMD Radeon Pro 580 with 8GB VRAM, and is Ethernet connected to my home’s 300mbps synchronous Internet service. I have three external hard drives for file storage and TimeMachine backups, one is 4TB and two others are 8TB each.

So for my hunk of hardware, what would Ventura add and what might I regret?

Thanks for any input.

I also have a 2017 27" iMac and have upgraded to Ventura. I don't really notice a slowdown with it, so possibly you may want to do a reinstall of macOS, or even a clean install to get rid of whatever is causing it.
As Fishrrman said, some of the changes such as the way Settings (formerly System Preferences) is laid out are annoying, and IMO the OS doesn't offer any great improvements, in at least what I care to use, other than perhaps scheduled e-mail and unsend e-mail. The one compelling reason to me to upgrade is for security. While Monterey still gets updates, there will come the time that you would be at least one year ahead if you have Ventura or whatever comes after it that will run on our now older machines.

 

[posguy99]

So for my hunk of hardware, what would Ventura add and what might I regret?

Look at Ventura's feature list, decide if there's anything there you care about.

Monterey is a currently supported OS, through 4Q2024 (given Apple's usual support milestones). There's no reason to install Ventura unless there is some need.

 

[pshufd]

The 4 reasons why I like Ventura over Monterey: the weather app, the clock app, hypervisor support (only a factor on Apple Silicon), and the high-quality text-to-speech voices that were added fairly recently.

I'd say that the new Settings are a downgrade. They seem to break a few things on the maintenance releases which can be a bit of a headache. If you are happy with Monterey, I'd stay on it. I am running Monterey on my 2015 MacBook Pro (last version supported) and it's running fine. Monterey is going to be more stable as they're not addition features to it and breaking things.

 

[Bazza1]

Bare in mind that there are features that your 2017 won't get, even if it can run Ventura. Just as was probably the case for you with Monterey. But maybe more so with Ventura as they gear the OS towards M1, M2 and above.

If you get what you need out of Monterey (albeit with the speed issue, as you note) and you've kept it up to date, why chance an upgrade that may offer more speed impacts and not necessarily any feature improvements?

 

[posguy99]

The 4 reasons why I like Ventura over Monterey: the weather app, the clock app, hypervisor support (only a factor on Apple Silicon), and the high-quality text-to-speech voices that were added fairly recently.

Not sure what you're referring to about "hypervisor support". The big players (VMWare, Parallels, VirtualBox) have been using the Apple frameworks since Big Sur.

 

[pshufd]

Not sure what you're referring to about "hypervisor support". The big players (VMWare, Parallels, VirtualBox) have been using the Apple frameworks since Big Sur.

A description of the additional capabilities can be found here:

Apple Extends macOS Virtualization Capabilities and Introduces Rosetta for Linux Binaries

At WWDC 2022, Apple showcased its latest advancement in virtualization support on macOS. Apple Virtualization Framework enables configuring and creating virtual machines on Apple Silicon to run macOS or Linux. New in the upcoming macOS Ventura, Linux VMs can leverage the GPU and use Rosetta to...

www.infoq.com

 

[TriciaMacMillan]

Ventura has several bug fixes that didn’t make it to Monterey, and that I cared about: it fixes several memory leaks in Finder and Spotlight, and it fixes a problem in Spotlight search for Mail that caused failure to find any matches until corespotlightd was forced to restart.

 

[posguy99]

A description of the additional capabilities can be found here:

Thank you for the link!

 

[HDFan]

I find the new system preferences to be an improvement once you find and use the "View" menu.

I am experiencing major file system slow downs (spinning beach ball), particularly with large folders (1000s of files) on external disks. Sometimes takes minutes to display the file names. Apple support sent the issue to development. Evidently they are aware of the problem.

 

[WilliApple]

- Continuity Camera, Weather app, and the Clock app are very important apps on the Mac for me.
- I often unsend/edit messages on my Mac more than my phone as well.
- Stage Manager is surprisingly underrated on the Mac, which all Macs that run Ventura will work with Stage Manager, but this isn't a huge game changer, but I can see it being more worth it on an iMac display.
- Live Text Screenshots is a huge QOL feature in Ventura that I use a lot, and appreciate its there. Before, I would just open all the screenshots in Preview, then copy the text there, but the Intel Macs don't have Live Text.

I had to revert back to a Monterey Partition because of wifi issues in a beta version of Ventura. Some stuff on Monterey weren't there, and I wanted Ventura back.

 

[Viking1983]

I upgraded to Ventura on my 2017 iMac, and at first I was very sorry I did. I experienced the same as described above "file system slow downs (spinning beach ball), particularly with large folders."

I did some poking around and realized my drive read/write speeds were abysmal. After running first aid in disk utility multiple times from recovery mode it all cleared up and my machine is buzzing again.

Overall it's OK. I don't care for the system preferences, but it's not a show stopper.

 

[DoghouseMike]

Totally anecdotal, but Ventura *feels* snappier than Monterey did on my macs (both older than yours OP).
Settings is a bit of a mess, but not as bad as the reports during the beta cycle had me thinking, and there’s always the search bar if something is tricky to find.
Then there’s the reassurance/anxiety that you’re on the “latest and greatest”.

I’d be tempted to recommend upgrading before something you rely on forces you to and you end up resenting it? Seems like you got some spare storage space available, how about doing a fresh install on an external drive and taking it for a spin?

 

[Feek]

I have the same 2017 27" iMac and I've left it on Monterey because I have no real reason to update.

 

[SalisburySam]

I don't see any compelling reason to upgrade, unless there's something that requires it.

Ventura changes the System Preferences all around (renamed to "settings").
I don't really care for how it looks, but that might just be me.

One other thing.
Do you realize you can STILL RUN iTunes with Monterey?
You need the free "Retroactive" utility.
It will install a modified copy of iTunes that will work just fine.
Works on Ventura, as well.

Thanks for your thoughts here. Yes, I had heard about iTunes under Monterey but I thought iTunes just tried to do too much. I actually like the implementation in Monterey separating music, TV, and especially iPhone/iPad backup routines to the much simpler Finder interface. For me, I thought that was a step forward, one that I had no issue adapting to.

 

[pshufd]

Thanks for your thoughts here. Yes, I had heard about iTunes under Monterey but I thought iTunes just tried to do too much. I actually like the implementation in Monterey separating music, TV, and especially iPhone/iPad backup routines to the much simpler Finder interface. For me, I thought that was a step forward, one that I had no issue adapting to.

I like the pieces but I find that Finder is overloaded these days. I think that they should have a separate program like iOSSync.

 

[SalisburySam]

Bare in mind that there are features that your 2017 won't get, even if it can run Ventura. Just as was probably the case for you with Monterey. But maybe more so with Ventura as they gear the OS towards M1, M2 and above.

If you get what you need out of Monterey (albeit with the speed issue, as you note) and you've kept it up to date, why chance an upgrade that may offer more speed impacts and not necessarily any feature improvements?

That’s how my thinking went, and the impetuous for creating this thread. Always helpful to get other‘s experiences that go well beyond the marketing hype.

 

[SalisburySam]

I also have a 2017 27" iMac and have upgraded to Ventura. I don't really notice a slowdown with it, so possibly you may want to do a reinstall of macOS, or even a clean install to get rid of whatever is causing it.
As Fishrrman said, some of the changes such as the way Settings (formerly System Preferences) is laid out are annoying, and IMO the OS doesn't offer any great improvements, in at least what I care to use, other than perhaps scheduled e-mail and unsend e-mail. The one compelling reason to me to upgrade is for security. While Monterey still gets updates, there will come the time that you would be at least one year ahead if you have Ventura or whatever comes after it that will run on our now older machines.

Agree with your point about security, but as you mention, any real negative impact is over a year away and by that time I may get over my avoidance of the smaller 24” iMacs and finally replace my then-seven-year-old box.

 

[SalisburySam]

Look at Ventura's feature list, decide if there's anything there you care about.

Monterey is a currently supported OS, through 4Q2024 (given Apple's usual support milestones). There's no reason to install Ventura unless there is some need.

Good point, and I did that. At first scan, I did not see anything critical or even of interest delivered in the marketing hype about Ventura’s abilities. This is why I created this thread to learn what others have from actual use.

 

[SalisburySam]

Ventura has several bug fixes that didn’t make it to Monterey, and that I cared about: it fixes several memory leaks in Finder and Spotlight, and it fixes a problem in Spotlight search for Mail that caused failure to find any matches until corespotlightd was forced to restart.

Interesting indeed, and thanks. I’ve had issues with Spotlight despite ensuring all relevant settings were correct. Hadn’t thought that might be a macOS issue. And Finder is pretty slow opening folders with more than a few dozen entries. Getting these back to the state I enjoyed in Mojave would be a serious push for upgrading to Ventura for me.

 

[SalisburySam]

I find the new system preferences to be an improvement once you find and use the "View" menu.

I am experiencing major file system slow downs (spinning beach ball), particularly with large folders (1000s of files) on external disks. Sometimes takes minutes to display the file names. Apple support sent the issue to development. Evidently they are aware of the problem.

Uh oh. Based on the post above by @TriciaMacMillan I thought that exact problem was overcome in Ventura. Now I’m pulling back from upgrading.

 

[SalisburySam]

- Continuity Camera, Weather app, and the Clock app are very important apps on the Mac for me.
- I often unsend/edit messages on my Mac more than my phone as well.
- Stage Manager is surprisingly underrated on the Mac, which all Macs that run Ventura will work with Stage Manager, but this isn't a huge game changer, but I can see it being more worth it on an iMac display.
- Live Text Screenshots is a huge QOL feature in Ventura that I use a lot, and appreciate its there. Before, I would just open all the screenshots in Preview, then copy the text there, but the Intel Macs don't have Live Text.

I had to revert back to a Monterey Partition because of wifi issues in a beta version of Ventura. Some stuff on Monterey weren't there, and I wanted Ventura back.

Thanks for the detail…most helpful. I don’t use Continuity, and the other apps you cite are convenient and infrequently used as they are so not a big motivator for me. Never tried Stage Manager but will to see what the discussion is all about. And as you mention Live Text is immaterial in my case.

 

[SalisburySam]

I upgraded to Ventura on my 2017 iMac, and at first I was very sorry I did. I experienced the same as described above "file system slow downs (spinning beach ball), particularly with large folders."

I did some poking around and realized my drive read/write speeds were abysmal. After running first aid in disk utility multiple times from recovery mode it all cleared up and my machine is buzzing again.

Overall it's OK. I don't care for the system preferences, but it's not a show stopper.

Helpful to me, thanks. Hadn’t thought to run First Aid on external disks but will try that. So in your case, the move to Ventura added an undesired change to System Preferences but all else is decent if I’m catching your drift.

 

[SalisburySam]

Totally anecdotal, but Ventura *feels* snappier than Monterey did on my macs (both older than yours OP).
Settings is a bit of a mess, but not as bad as the reports during the beta cycle had me thinking, and there’s always the search bar if something is tricky to find.
Then there’s the reassurance/anxiety that you’re on the “latest and greatest”.

I’d be tempted to recommend upgrading before something you rely on forces you to and you end up resenting it? Seems like you got some spare storage space available, how about doing a fresh install on an external drive and taking it for a spin?

“Snappier” would be good indeed. “Latest and greatest” has not been a desired of mine; I’m more of an “it just works” kind of guy and will take performance over newness every day. I like the suggestion of setting up an external boot drive to do a test drive…hadn’t thought of that.