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Any pricing guesses for the 12 core, 256gb, 32GB, D700? $6000?
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Anyone care to take a guess how much the 32GB, 12 core, D700 Mac Pro will cost with 256gb of pcie storage?
I'll start with $6000.
A whole lot more than $6K. Try doubling it for starters.
If they don't price it at at LEAST $7,000 then they will be overrun with Windows folks buying 2 FirePros and getting the rest of machine as a Freebie.
In fact, seems like it has to be $9K for base and D700s, without any other trimmings.
In short, I imagine AMD has given them a minimum for the D700s, otherwise they poach sales of those $3,500 beauties.
In fact, seems like it has to be $9K for base and D700s, without any other trimmings.
In short, I imagine AMD has given them a minimum for the D700s, otherwise they poach sales of those $3,500 beauties.
Here's my guess/assumptions…
Base computer = $2000
32GB RAM = $800
12-Core Processor = $3000
Dual D700 GPUS = $???
So before the GPUs we're at about $6000.
Based on the published prices for the quad with D300s and the hex with D500s it seems that Apple is charging around half retail value for the GPUs… $350 or so for each of the D300s and $700 or so for the D500s, implying the D700s could be around $1500 each (or $3K for two).
That would put the total at $9K.
EDIT: I put some more thought (math) into this to refine my pricing estimates...
We know the Quad Config is $3K.
We know the Hex Config is $4K.
I'm going to assume the cost difference in RAM between the 12GB and 16GB is not that significant (part of the fixed cost).
So if we subtract the main variable, the CPUs which we know to be $300 and $600 and account for about a 33% margin (thus subtracting $400 and $800 respectively), that leaves us with $2600 and $3200 for both systems sans CPU with the only real variable component left being the GPUs.
Thus we know that 2xD300s+FC=$2600 and 2xD500s+FC=$3200 where FC = Fixed Cost (of case, RAM, SSD, etc).
We also know based on AMD pricing that D300 = 1/2(D500).
So we have D500+FC=$2600 and 2xD500+FC=$3200
That works out nicely to a Fixed Cost component of $2000 and a variable component of $600 and $1200 for the GPUs for the two system… or $300 each for the D300 and $600 each for the D500.
If the pattern continues for the D700, it would be $1200 each although I would feel safer betting on a value between $1200 and $1500 each for the D700.
So again, my estimate is $9K for the top config. If I'm correct, it would also mean that adding the D700s to the entry-level Quad config would end up at around $5400 (Base+$2400) which may be a bit low based on what MacVidCards is saying about AMD wanting to avoid radical cannibalization.
Base computer = $2000
32GB RAM = $800
12-Core Processor = $3000
Dual D700 GPUS = $???
So before the GPUs we're at about $6000.
Based on the published prices for the quad with D300s and the hex with D500s it seems that Apple is charging around half retail value for the GPUs… $350 or so for each of the D300s and $700 or so for the D500s, implying the D700s could be around $1500 each (or $3K for two).
That would put the total at $9K.
EDIT: I put some more thought (math) into this to refine my pricing estimates...
We know the Quad Config is $3K.
We know the Hex Config is $4K.
I'm going to assume the cost difference in RAM between the 12GB and 16GB is not that significant (part of the fixed cost).
So if we subtract the main variable, the CPUs which we know to be $300 and $600 and account for about a 33% margin (thus subtracting $400 and $800 respectively), that leaves us with $2600 and $3200 for both systems sans CPU with the only real variable component left being the GPUs.
Thus we know that 2xD300s+FC=$2600 and 2xD500s+FC=$3200 where FC = Fixed Cost (of case, RAM, SSD, etc).
We also know based on AMD pricing that D300 = 1/2(D500).
So we have D500+FC=$2600 and 2xD500+FC=$3200
That works out nicely to a Fixed Cost component of $2000 and a variable component of $600 and $1200 for the GPUs for the two system… or $300 each for the D300 and $600 each for the D500.
If the pattern continues for the D700, it would be $1200 each although I would feel safer betting on a value between $1200 and $1500 each for the D700.
So again, my estimate is $9K for the top config. If I'm correct, it would also mean that adding the D700s to the entry-level Quad config would end up at around $5400 (Base+$2400) which may be a bit low based on what MacVidCards is saying about AMD wanting to avoid radical cannibalization.
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If that's the case the D700's would need to be a $4000 bto, (2x2000) to get the quad core up to $7k.
Seriously think of what will happen if people being forced (by Windows software) to purchase W9000/D700 cards see a chance to buy 2 of them for LESS than retail AND IT COMES WITH A FREE MINI WORKSTATION...wouldn't you buy them up fast and leave the AMD folks selling their candy elsewhere?
Perhaps Apple is really going after Dell in the Mid Power workstation market? That would be the way to do it.
I don't think this is seriously what they are up to. But if the package with Dual D700s is seriously THOUSANDS less than just buying the same cards alone, will create a weird demand vacumn.
Imagine if Dell offered a 1/2 price Asus 4K with purchase? Heck, two of them.
If it turns out that the cards have been handicapped in some way, like the D300/500 are, then maybe not so weird.
Perhaps Apple is really going after Dell in the Mid Power workstation market? That would be the way to do it.
I don't think this is seriously what they are up to. But if the package with Dual D700s is seriously THOUSANDS less than just buying the same cards alone, will create a weird demand vacumn.
Imagine if Dell offered a 1/2 price Asus 4K with purchase? Heck, two of them.
If it turns out that the cards have been handicapped in some way, like the D300/500 are, then maybe not so weird.
I do wonder if the cards are either handicapped, aka lower clocks, and less memory to compensate for their heat and power usage ( FirePros are rather power hungry), or if they're Die refreshes on a smaller process( although much less likely given TSMC isn't ready for smaller processes on mass production yet.
Otherwise AMD's new R series would be based on it.
Although, there is the chance Apple, and AMD are getting limited early process work done.
The rest of your point is spot on, if these cards aren't much slower than their desktop counter parts, and they're selling two for a reasonable price many windows user could end up buying them.
It would be a win win situation for Apple, and Pro users. Selling more units, they'll claim it's there fastest and best selling Pro desktop ever. While Windows users are getting two extremely good workstation cards for possibly half price, in a small package.
In regards to Apple going after mid workstation market, at the moment the new MP is certainly competitively priced against Dell and BOXX in that regard.
What remains to be seen is the raw performance numbers of these D series workstation cards.
The more I think of this, the more I think that these were re-named for a purpose.
Note that I started a thread months ago about 7970 being FirePro 9000 but the pix I posted say "D700"
So name has been in works for months.
The 300 & 500 are clearly detuned Pitcairn XT and Tahiti LE.
BTW, I'm pretty sure the D500 specs contain a typo. 1526 is likely really 1536.
They probably had the proofreaders busy with those eloquent posters, tech specs on a back burner.
But if D700 only has to be special in OSX, they don't have to give away the whole 9000 farm in Windows. Can be a subset of driver enhancements. Still a FirePro, just not a full 9000.
Note that I started a thread months ago about 7970 being FirePro 9000 but the pix I posted say "D700"
So name has been in works for months.
The 300 & 500 are clearly detuned Pitcairn XT and Tahiti LE.
BTW, I'm pretty sure the D500 specs contain a typo. 1526 is likely really 1536.
They probably had the proofreaders busy with those eloquent posters, tech specs on a back burner.
But if D700 only has to be special in OSX, they don't have to give away the whole 9000 farm in Windows. Can be a subset of driver enhancements. Still a FirePro, just not a full 9000.
3000$ on top for 12 core?
How much was the old updgrade price for most expensive CPU option?
I would be interested in the base model with 512GB Storage, D300, 12GB and 12 Core. RAM Upgrade with OWC...
I expected the upgrade price for 12 core to be around 2k max !
How much was the old updgrade price for most expensive CPU option?
I would be interested in the base model with 512GB Storage, D300, 12GB and 12 Core. RAM Upgrade with OWC...
I expected the upgrade price for 12 core to be around 2k max !
Innocent question, but is the only thing preventing people from putting whatever GPU card they want in the nMP the fact that the case is 9.9 inches tall.. and not 12? (titan is 10.5 by itself).
And could you rip the d700 out and stick it in any computer with a PCIe slot? Obviously the WIN people have just as few TB compatible peripherals as we do so that is a slight deterrent. Though they probably have more USB 3 stuff.
And could you rip the d700 out and stick it in any computer with a PCIe slot? Obviously the WIN people have just as few TB compatible peripherals as we do
so that is a slight deterrent. Though they probably have more USB 3 stuff.Innocent question, but is the only thing preventing people from putting whatever GPU card they want in the nMP the fact that the case is 9.9 inches tall.. and not 12? (titan is 10.5 by itself).
And could you rip the d700 out and stick it in any computer with a PCIe slot? Obviously the WIN people have just as few TB compatible peripherals as we do
No, they are custom cards that will only fit in the new Mac Pro enclosure.
The high priced single processor computer
Here's a video supporting why a fully load nMP will be priced above $12k.
http://www.complex.com/tech/2013/10/expensive-mac-pro-fully-loaded
Here's a video supporting why a fully load nMP will be priced above $12k.
http://www.complex.com/tech/2013/10/expensive-mac-pro-fully-loaded
OK, so you think the D-series cards cannot plug into the PCIe slots of a workstation 8x the size?.
Lets say I want to run my nMP with the case (enclosure) off. Whats preventing me from plugging in a 780, 7950 etc? is the interface difference, will it not accommodate a double-wide card?
Disregarding Apple's profit margins, the 12 core processsor costs 2800$, D700 might cost 3500$ each, so GPU+CPU already cost 10K. Add on top of that memory and the rest, you will get to 12K.
But, I don't think D700 will cost 3500$. I think Apple will get a much better deal out of those GPU's and we'll be surprised.
But, I don't think D700 will cost 3500$. I think Apple will get a much better deal out of those GPU's and we'll be surprised.
What in the world are you talking about??? Have you seen the thing? They're tiny square cards plugged into a larger base that plugs into the bottom of the cylindrical system. Of course you can't plug in a normal card let alone a double wide. Nothing about it is designed for the typical linear card slot system. Sounds to me like you want an old Mac Pro or a custom PC...
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Well here are the CPU prices:
4-core 3.7GHz Xeon E5-1620 v2: $294
6-core 3.5GHz Xeon E5-1650 v2: $583
8-core 3.0GHz Xeon E5-1680 v2: $1723
12-core 2.7GHz Xeon E5-2697 v2: $2614
The 12-core would be roughly $2000 more than the 6 core. So around $6000 for a 12-core with D500s 256GB HD and 12GB of RAM. We can assume that the D500s are worth $600 given that the CPU price difference between the 4 and 6-core is about $300 and there is that extra 4GB of ram.
So however much more the two D900s are than $600, plus the $6000 for a stripped down 12-core will be your total.
4-core 3.7GHz Xeon E5-1620 v2: $294
6-core 3.5GHz Xeon E5-1650 v2: $583
8-core 3.0GHz Xeon E5-1680 v2: $1723
12-core 2.7GHz Xeon E5-2697 v2: $2614
The 12-core would be roughly $2000 more than the 6 core. So around $6000 for a 12-core with D500s 256GB HD and 12GB of RAM. We can assume that the D500s are worth $600 given that the CPU price difference between the 4 and 6-core is about $300 and there is that extra 4GB of ram.
So however much more the two D900s are than $600, plus the $6000 for a stripped down 12-core will be your total.
How about attaching two 220-240W cards to a 450W power supply? Oh and shaving about 100W off that power supply for the CPU+other internals; so pragmatically two 240W cards ( 480W) attached to a 350W power supply.
On real world code that can leverage both GPUs, no one is even going to get close to the "7 TFLOPs" the hyperbole marketing pages chest beat about. The problem they have is that users can't really use both cards at full blast at the same time. Individual D700 may/may not match up to the value proposition of individual more mainstream W9000. However, as a pair they can't hit the same performance envelope. So Apple is going to be extremely hard pressed to charge the same prices for the pair. They can, but they actually have the reverse of the "problem" you are pointing out when they are much cheaper for the same performance.
What in the world are you talking about??? Have you seen the thing? They're tiny square cards plugged into a larger base that plugs into the bottom of the cylindrical system. Of course you can't plug in a normal card let alone a double wide. Nothing about it is designed for the typical linear card slot system. Sounds to me like you want an old Mac Pro or a custom PC...
If you looked up a few posts, there was a theory that the D700 cards needed to be a multi-thousand dollar upgrade otherwise PC users would no longer buy the W9000 cards from AMD and would just cannibalize a nMP. So I was just asking about the feasibility of that. It seems then that the D-series are completely custom then. They will only connect in a nMP. So you can't ripe them out and use them elsewhere. You would be stuck running windows or maybe linux on the nMP, with potentially questionable driver support. And having to buy lots of TB conversion cables. This doesn't seem a very likely scenario for a windows user with a workstation - far less options and sacrifice for a cheaper, but likely down geared W9000.
So here's hoping the they got an amazing deal on the D700 and it is less than $1500 BTO.
Couldn't AMD/Apple do something as simple as a resistor or firmware bit that prevent the Catalyst Pro drivers from recognizing the card in Windows? That would solve all the potential problems... They could offer Apple great pricing and expand market share without cannibalizing Windows workstation card sales at all.
That would render Bootcamp worthless though, and many Professionals use more than just OS X.
There's also the chance that in order to get the W9000's in such a small form factor( power, and heat output ) that they've either been gimped for clock speed, memory speed, or both.
There's also the possibility that these are refreshes, using a smaller manufacturing process ( although unless they have exclusive first come slots with TSMC for their new process ) it's rather unlikely. Given that their newly released R9 290X is still using the same two old process as current W9000's and 7 series cards.
Either way, if the cards match or get close to the full desktop FirePro line, and they're slightly cheaper they could end up bringing in many Windows users who want the system.
It's a Win for Apple, and they'll claim the nMP is the best, and fastest selling MP they've ever made.
It's also highly likely that the D700's will be somewhat cheaper than W9000's, simply because Apple are not normal consumers, and can get it all for much cheaper. Whether they'll pass on any savings remains to be seen.
Has to be at least $7,995. Maybe $10 in a garage sale in 2045 AD if you want to wait and lucky enough to find one in that time.