any rumors of an improved Mini?

[AlexisV]

Compared to the iMac it's terrible value, and in the Windows PC world you can buy computers with 19" monitors, keyboard/mouse and DVD burners for the same price or less than the Mini.

Apple's an independent company and needs higher profit margins on every product to survive. PC manufacturers buy off the shelf and put them in the same basic boxes. Macs are custom, bespoke, and also need extra profit margins to cover their R&D. Dell let Intel and Microsoft do their R&D - Apple has to produce custom hardware as well as operating systems.

The style factor Apple has is justification for higher markups. Look at how they were struggling before the 98 iMac came along.

 

[NewbieNerd]

Well, people don't want Minis--at least not the way they are now.

Sorry, but I would venture to disagree with you. The non-prosumer is certainly the target for the Minis, people who have no idea, let alone concern, that Core Duo is different than Core 2 Duo, or at least that this processor difference exists between Minis and iMacs. Nor does the target audience care about playing games or having a 30" monitor. I think there are plenty of people who fit into this category, people who just want to surf the web and use iPhoto and iTunes on a cute little Mac Mini which is stylish and not so expensive (at least in the target audience's eyes).

 

[mrgreen4242]

The mini COULD be a terrific system... it's just not at the moment. Apple must know this. I don't think they'll drop it, unless they launch a new mini-esque product. I don't think that's likely, tho.

I don't know why people are concerned that the mini would be the "showcase" for the SR platform. I mean, there's nothing exceptionally groundbreaking about it; it's purely the next step of Intel's system design. I contend that it makes the MOST sense to debut it in a revamped mini.

Get the latest system in a cute little box for $600/800, only from Apple. They'd fly off the shelves, if Intel/Apple do a good/great job writing drivers for the x3000. A system that is fast enough (CPU wise) for anything a normal user would throw at it, and most things a high end user would. Fast enough for casual and low end gaming (the x3000 looks like it will handle 3D gamin pretty OK - at least lots of games will work and be playable). It can take an adequate amount of RAM (I'm assuming that SR w/ be able to utilize at least 4gb of RAM, and that 2gb SODIMMs will drop in price over the next year). 2.5" HDDs, while the suck, are catching up. The 5400rpm SATA units are pretty decent for most needs, and I figure Apple will offer a 120 or 160gb 7200rpm drive as an option with the next mini.

Seems like a wonderful use of new tech, and a great way to highlight it and a product that has a ton of potential (the mini, that is).

 

[NewbieNerd]

Yeah I definitely think the Minis are great but am personally hoping for some beef in them. I'm thinking of getting my first mini for home. What I love about them is that, after it's served it's purpose, it won't be hard to convince the wife that I need to keep the thing for some kinda server or Xgrided assistant or something because it is so small and cute. A nerdy developer's gotta be able to keep some hardware around to play with, right?

 

[QCassidy352]

I think the theory goes something like this:

The mini is awfully long in the tooth--I think it's clearly the worst value in the Apple line right now--and needs an update to once again be price-competitive. Also, most don't think Apple wants to have the mini as its showcase piece for Santa Rosa. Thirdly, the mini is the only line left operating completely on Core Duo CPUs. Thus, a near-term update to C2Ds, .11n, an option of 1GB stock RAM in the higher model, a price adjustment or some combination thereof would serve as a nice little appetizer while SR gets its time in the sun with higher-end products.

This all made PERFECT sense a month ago, and I think it's still fairly likely, but it becomes less and less of a sure thing as time passes. Nothing says they can't update to C2Ds after the SR release, but it seems a bit odd...I still get excited every Tuesday, but if we get deep into April with last September's minis still for sale I'm going to start rethinking the situation.

I hope you're wrong. If apple just puts a c2d in the current mini, I won't be buying a mini for a long time, if ever. I've been clinging to the hope that the reason for this delay is that they're going straight to Santa Rosa. If the mini is going to need another 2 upgrades to get there, then forget it.

The mini COULD be a terrific system... it's just not at the moment. Apple must know this. I don't think they'll drop it, unless they launch a new mini-esque product. I don't think that's likely, tho.

I don't know why people are concerned that the mini would be the "showcase" for the SR platform. I mean, there's nothing exceptionally groundbreaking about it; it's purely the next step of Intel's system design. I contend that it makes the MOST sense to debut it in a revamped mini.

...
Seems like a wonderful use of new tech, and a great way to highlight it and a product that has a ton of potential (the mini, that is).

I totally agree. Why does the mini have to be the red-headed stepchild of apple's lineup? It may be the cheapest, but that doesn't mean it has to suck, does it? Giving it Santa Rosa wouldn't stop people from buying other models. Maybe it would take away a few imac sales, but even there, imac buyers generally want the all-in-one. It certainly wouldn't meaningfully impact mac pro or laptop sales.

If the mini were dirt cheap, I could see sticking it with old tech while everything else moved on. But the truth is, it's not that cheap. Buy a mouse, keyboard, and monitor, and you're at or above the price of the low-end imac. I wish apple would either price the mini like the crap PCs it shares tech with, or even better, spec it to be a reasonable option compared to an imac.

 

[PNW]

Sorry, but I would venture to disagree with you. The non-prosumer is certainly the target for the Minis, people who have no idea, let alone concern, that Core Duo is different than Core 2 Duo, or at least that this processor difference exists between Minis and iMacs. Nor does the target audience care about playing games or having a 30" monitor. I think there are plenty of people who fit into this category, people who just want to surf the web and use iPhoto and iTunes on a cute little Mac Mini which is stylish and not so expensive (at least in the target audience's eyes).

All the more reason to make the unit a little bigger and move to desktop parts, which provide more bang for less buck and afford more flexibility. Apple could then offer the mini (or some new name) as a low to mid range desktop priced from $500 -$1500 depending on config, make everyone happy, and grab even more market share.

On a side note I doubt we’ll see any new hardware announcements until Leopard gets released (or a release date is announced). After all the kind of folks who’ll look around and wait for a hardware upgrade aren’t going to rush out to the store for a new box when an OS upgrade is rumored to be a month away.

 

[shikimo]

The mini COULD be a terrific system... it's just not at the moment. Apple must know this. I don't think they'll drop it, unless they launch a new mini-esque product. I don't think that's likely, tho.

I don't know why people are concerned that the mini would be the "showcase" for the SR platform. I mean, there's nothing exceptionally groundbreaking about it; it's purely the next step of Intel's system design. I contend that it makes the MOST sense to debut it in a revamped mini.

Get the latest system in a cute little box for $600/800, only from Apple. They'd fly off the shelves, if Intel/Apple do a good/great job writing drivers for the x3000. A system that is fast enough (CPU wise) for anything a normal user would throw at it, and most things a high end user would. Fast enough for casual and low end gaming (the x3000 looks like it will handle 3D gamin pretty OK - at least lots of games will work and be playable). It can take an adequate amount of RAM (I'm assuming that SR w/ be able to utilize at least 4gb of RAM, and that 2gb SODIMMs will drop in price over the next year). 2.5" HDDs, while the suck, are catching up. The 5400rpm SATA units are pretty decent for most needs, and I figure Apple will offer a 120 or 160gb 7200rpm drive as an option with the next mini.

Seems like a wonderful use of new tech, and a great way to highlight it and a product that has a ton of potential (the mini, that is).

I basically agree with you, at least from a common-sense, product/productivity standpoint. However, from the marketing angle I still think we're more likely to see the first SR chips either in the flagship iMac or the laptop line. The mini is the dirty forgotten uncle cuz it's the cheapest, and thus not Apple's biggest priority.

In any case I do hope you are right and I am wrong; I would gladly wait two more months for a nice shiny little SR mini with some beefed-up specs for about the same price. They could sell out their current stock to folks who don't know or care about SR/C2D/stock RAM issues and then blow us away with all kinds of new hardware after a Leopard announcement in May, to be delivered on or around WWDC...with all new hardware shipping with 10.4.9 and coming with a little voucher for the Leopard/iLife '07 upgrade.

Now that would be worth waiting for .

 

[dale.albiston]

actually looking at a mac mini to complement my macbook pro, and allow me to use at least one of them .

i'd love to see duel link dvi, or even better hdmi for the simple reason that this little bugger is ideal as a home media machine, who needs a monitor, lob it at a hd lcd screen... the 23" acd is silly money for this, plus its not a telly.

yes i can get a telly with dvi/vga inputs but a decent sized telly that can do 1080p would make a passable monitor to me (given it will be used for limited things via a bt keyboard/mouse combo from the sofa).

this will work at present, but at lower resolutions than such screen can handle. its not too important but the ability to play hd content from the mini to the screen would be a killer for me (it would be hooked to a networked storage device for the content).

with a nice surround system for audio its a nice media center, that can also surf the net and, well basically do anything a mac mini can do. for the cash (400ukp) it doesn't *need* anything else other than the duel link/hdmi option really. as a primary machine for a power user its not up to the job, but such a user will want way more anyway.

c2d yeah it would be nice. more than 512meg ram... ditto but i'm looking at rigging this up in a few months, if there is a new machine i'm over the moon, otherwise *shrug* it will do.

though if i can get proper HD res out of the box (1080p) to a screen the sky+ box that will end up under it will be a skyhd box instead. can't do both the cost of the screen isn't worth it.

btw.. i'd *love* a change in case design, make a mac mini int he sort of format that dvd players are normally in (think 1U case without the rack mounts) i.e. wide and flat, would stack well with other such cases. just the IR sensor, power button and a glowing logo on the front. not fussed over the colour really but silver would look better than white. or possibly a wall mount capable unit (same box, mounted under it, the rear designed to shroud the connectors so from above (i.e. in front on a wall) you can't see them, just the wires.

not gunna happen but would look kinda good, having a computer in the lounge that basically was invisible among all the other similar boxes

 

[bigandy]

btw.. i'd *love* a change in case design, make a mac mini int he sort of format that dvd players are normally in (think 1U case without the rack mounts) i.e. wide and flat, would stack well with other such cases. just the IR sensor, power button and a glowing logo on the front. not fussed over the colour really but silver would look better than white. or possibly a wall mount capable unit (same box, mounted under it, the rear designed to shroud the connectors so from above (i.e. in front on a wall) you can't see them, just the wires.

not gunna happen but would look kinda good, having a computer in the lounge that basically was invisible among all the other similar boxes

never going to happen because the mini's main market is at home users/switchers as a computer, not a media box. because of the TV there's no point in creating a mini in a new enclosure, as it'd take sales away from said new product.

 

[dale.albiston]

never going to happen because the mini's main market is at home users/switchers as a computer, not a media box. because of the TV there's no point in creating a mini in a new enclosure, as it'd take sales away from said new product.

Oh i know it won't happen, at least not for a while, though i could see the ATV & Mini merging into a single product in a few years, maybe maybe not. either way the case won't change which is a pity just for getting these things to physically fit in with set top boxes for cable etc.

its like the chances of mini getting hdmi is close to zero, again a shame, while a mini so equipped may take sales from atv, the question there is what is the margin on both products? and which makes more money?

but then the atv is useless on its own, while the mini is useful.

and the chances of me getting both (they should stack ok) simple to watch stuff on a hdmi equipped flat screen is close to zero. atv is a nice idea, and *if* it can play 'video_ts' folders from a network its useful, but otherwise in the uk theres no much point, unless you like ripping dvds to quick time files (though i guess that would work, if you can be bothered).

to me atv is an ipod that needs a telly to support it, in that without a computer its useless. something the size of a mini, with that one extra capacity - to drive a real HD display would be perfect.

 

[colinmack]

Personally, I don't care whether it's an upgraded mini or some new mini-tower hybrid, if they come out with a small footprint headless Mac that supports dual monitors, I'll buy one instantly.

In fact, probably two of them.

With the onboard graphics coming with the new Santa Rosa chipset, there's no reason it couldn't at least be an optional upgrade...I think there is more demand for that kind of system/option than Apple realizes.

 

[wake6830]

...yes i can get a telly with dvi/vga inputs but a decent sized telly that can do 1080p would make a passable monitor to me (given it will be used for limited things via a bt keyboard/mouse combo from the sofa).

this will work at present, but at lower resolutions than such screen can handle. its not too important but the ability to play hd content from the mini to the screen would be a killer for me (it would be hooked to a networked storage device for the content)....

The mini can do 1080p just fine right now without any dual-link dvi or discrete video memory.

 

[BurtonCCC]

How about Apple make a taller mini that looks about the same size as a G4 Cube? If a bigger size is what it takes to get more features into it, then I vote for it to happen.

Daniel.

 

[iW00t]

I hope they don't drop the Mini, but I've been fearing this as well.

I'm guessing sales are lackluster which will have them thinking people just don't want Minis.

Well, people don't want Minis--at least not the way they are now. I think with upgrades along the lines everyone is talking about will make a huge difference.

Actually I for one hope they kill off the Mini, if it is the Mini that is stopping them from introducing our mythical single processor Mac tower for fear that it will eat into either the iMac or Mini sales... kill that line, clear that spot, just to put a new machine in for all I care.

 

[princealfie]

I thought that the Mini is perfect the way it is... geewhiz, complainers!

 

[iDave]

Actually I for one hope they kill off the Mini, if it is the Mini that is stopping them from introducing our mythical single processor Mac tower for fear that it will eat into either the iMac or Mini sales... kill that line, clear that spot, just to put a new machine in for all I care.

Since the $499 mini no longer exists and the SuperDrive mini now costs $799, it's not exactly an entry level machine anymore anyway. If Apple replaced the mini, beefed up the specs a bit and offered a real computer in various configurations for $800-1200 it would be preferable to me. I'm certainly not hooked on the mini form factor, and its mobile hard drive requirement drives me nuts.

 

[princealfie]

Since the $499 mini no longer exists and the SuperDrive mini now costs $799, it's not exactly an entry level machine anymore anyway. If Apple replaced the mini, beefed up the specs a bit and offered a real computer in various configurations for $800-1200 it would be preferable to me. I'm certainly not hooked on the mini form factor, and its mobile hard drive requirement drives me nuts.

But why not use an external HD then?

 

[iDave]

But why not use an external HD then?

I probably will. I plan to buy a mini as soon as the anticipated update occurs. Since its hard drive (or any mobile drive) will be far from large enough for my needs, I'll use an external drive. This is not the ideal solution but it'll do I suppose.

 

[bpjauburn]

I probably will. I plan to buy a mini as soon as the anticipated update occurs. Since its hard drive (or any mobile drive) will be far from large enough for my needs, I'll use an external drive. This is not the ideal solution but it'll do I suppose.

That's my plan as well. I have over 300 GB's of music/photo's video that I need to move over. External on the Mini is the only option with it currently topping out at a 160 GB HD.

I am/will be a "switcher" and the current Mini specs are not enough to justify the switch. Even if they "only" update to C2D it might not be enough. They could have done that months ago so I'm betting they are going to do something "bigger".

For me, there is much room between the Mini and the other "destop" option the Mac Pro. I have my own monitor (24" Dell) so the iMac is a non-starter with the built in monitor. I, for one, would like to see something in the middle that didn't require a screen. A headless iMac would be perfect.

 

[shikimo]

I probably will. I plan to buy a mini as soon as the anticipated update occurs. Since its hard drive (or any mobile drive) will be far from large enough for my needs, I'll use an external drive. This is not the ideal solution but it'll do I suppose.

Yeah, having to use a big external drive right off the bat kind of ruins the design element...although I like the drives that are built to occupy the same footprint as the mini. Perhaps not big enough for hard core users, but that's not the mini target audience. Of course, that just brings us back to the question of the midrange headless mac, for which the audience is currently without an Apple...

 

[mrgreen4242]

I probably will. I plan to buy a mini as soon as the anticipated update occurs. Since its hard drive (or any mobile drive) will be far from large enough for my needs, I'll use an external drive. This is not the ideal solution but it'll do I suppose.

I'm in the same boat. I'm waiting for a mini with x3000 which should be the next system or the one after that (unless the next machine has something other than an x3000 that isn't a GMA950, but I digress). I already have a 120gb FW drive, but I am hoping against hope that Apple adds an eSATA port to the new mini. Seems pretty reasonable, imo.

If they don't, I am SERIOUSLY considering making my own eSATA port, like has been seen online. I'm already giving my wife my G4 mini, and she'll want the extra drive anyway, so I could snag a 4000gb SATA drive (can't believe these are down to <$100 already) and another mini-stackable drive case and do it. That system would be pretty close to perfect, for me. C2D, x3000 (which is looking more and more like it might actually live up to the hype surrounding it) GPU, 2gb RAM, 400gb external SATA with no drive in the mini which would create some extra airflow room and reduce heat inside the machine, ensuring that the already nearly silent operation stays that way...

Actually, I just came across this page, http://www.amug.org/amug-web/html/amug/reviews/articles/mini/dock/, which is brilliant. If it weren't for the GPU in the current mini I'd likely grab a refurb or used low end of the current model (1.66ghz CD/60gb/CD $519 from Apple) part out the drives and RAM, get a snazzy case, put a 400-500gb SATA drive and a 8x+ DVD-RW, and 2gbs of RAM in it. Probably end up running me, what, $519 for the mini, minus $90-100 for the removed parts, and add another $275 for new drives/RAM... plus whatever I feel spending on a case (lots of cool older PowerMac cases out there - like the mirror door G4's, which are hot imo... the cube would be fantastic if it weren't for the fact it uses a slot loading drive) and I've STILL spent less than the current high end mini.

Hell, now that I am looking at it, I might do that even WITH the crappy GPU.

 

[dale.albiston]

The mini can do 1080p just fine right now without any dual-link dvi or discrete video memory.

hmmm... i using 1080p as a monitor is doable, may have to look into this. i know people have a downer on the mini, but it has one massive advantage, my better half thinks its 'cute'. hence more chance of getting one as a media center than of running a mac pro behind the telly.

hooked to a network hard drive this has 'potential' even if my home wifi is only 56 'G', if thats not enough to stream video_ts folders over i can always copy em local (or just sit a drive under the mini, if it comes to it).

given a ps2 sits around for playing games as long as the minis graphics system *works* i'm not too fussed if its amazing at 3d etc

 

[MacSA]

This update is taking forever to arrive... I wonder if they are redesigning the Mini - there are rumours of a new iMac design too.

 

[NewbieNerd]

This update is taking forever to arrive... I wonder if they are redesigning the Mini - there are rumours of a new iMac design too.

Nah, I can't imagine they're significantly redesigning the mini. I haven't heard any complaints whatsoever with how it looks, only the opposite, while lots of people say they don't like the current iMac design, as least in comparison with the G4 design.

They just need to focus on giving the mini some up-to-date internals and/or offering that middle-of-the-road headless mac. Being in the market for either one of these things myself, I wouldn't be too happy that they took their sweet time releasing a decent machine just to change the appearance of something that is already adorable.

 

[synth3tik]

iMac = prosumer