Any sign that the OS X team has taken it's head out of it's behind in ML?

[QuarterSwede]

So if you leave both Safari and Mail running, each with no more windows open – what happens after logging out and in again, if you enable the option to "reopen windows when logging back in"

I stand corrected. Safari weirdly opened my last session (even though I closed every tab one by one) and then closed the window. Mail stayed open even though I had closed it.

I suppose I hadn't noticed because most of my main apps run fullscreen and I want them up when I log in. Many years of OS X use have given me the habit of closing whatever I don't want running when I log back in.

 

[Sdreed91]

I have to agree with others here that have said if something is great no one runs to the forums And makes posts saying who great anything is. But there are always plenty of people who wish to vocalize their complete dislike of Apples products or future direction and then assume they are outnumbering the people who do like lion and ML.

 

[baryon]

Cool story bro. Really though, if you find that much wrong with the OS, then why use it? Even better yet, why go about trumpeting that its a horrible OS, basically because you said so. The fact is, a large portion of users, from all proficiency levels, have no issues and complaints, and certainly not as many as this. What makes your opinion any more, or even less, valid, or subjective for that matter, than theirs?

Saying that most people don't have this many issues does not invalidate someone's complaint. How would you react if you went to Apple and told them about a faulty product, and they told you that they don't care since most people don't have the issue?

A large portion of users, from all proficiency levels, have loads of issues and complaints about the new Apple OSs.

And it will not be possible to stay with Snow Leopard forever, since computers go obsolete quickly and new Macs don't support Snow Leopard. The only way one can stay with Snow Leopard is if they stay with old hardware, will won't support new software soon. Sure, we can switch to Windows, but I personally think it's still better to use Lion than Windows. The worst thing though is that we have experienced what it's like to use a good OS (Snow Leopard), and going back a step is even more annoying this way.

 

[blow45]

I have to agree with others here that have said if something is great no one runs to the forums And makes posts saying who great anything is. But there are always plenty of people who wish to vocalize their complete dislike of Apples products or future direction and then assume they are outnumbering the people who do like lion and ML.

Excuse me but this is bs. I have run to the forums and marveled with even the prospect of a retina display on the ipad, and a few years before ipads release I was checking the site every week or so for news and speculating on apple's tablet because I was very aware that it would revolutionize a lot of the ways we are doing computing, and it would be a market defining device.

To make these kinds of blanket statements to account for the mess that is lion and the poor effort in developing and refining it that the os x team has put in is ludicrous. Not all people are professional whiners. When people were complaining about untreated glass on the imacs giving reflections and headaches they had a real usability problem that apple only recently will come to address.

When people were adopting snow leopard faster than any other os x release (despite having to go to a store to buy it instead of it being one click away from the app store, despite sl not being pimped with icloud as the only way to sync in the apple ecosystem after mm got cancelled) and the tech blogs and forums were almost universally very pleased with it, it was because snow leopard was a good product, a refinement of a very good os, leopard. Sure there were things on the list that users requested and didn't appear in sl (resolution independence which didn't even happen in lion for example) and minor points of discussion about but the the overall consensus was that sl was a good dot release of os x.

So get off your high horse and realize that apple's user base didn't suddenly go ape **** about lion because they are habitual whiners, they have done so because lion was a very buggy release, a release with very few real under the hood tech advancements (mostly security ones, and welcome ones btw) but an absolute mess in terms of ui choices. The innovations of lion such as autosave, versioning, mission control, save states etc. have been very dubious at best and even people who like or desire them (and I am not talking about habitual john gruber type apple ass kissers here) will admit (if they are honest enough) that they need to be implemented better than they already are and be refined.

There are tons of issues myself and others are facing on lion and I mentioned them in the first post. A good os is not an os where preview is as buggy and unstable as it had never been (never had preview crash on me so many times in os x) where mail goes into memory leaks that make it run up to 2gb of ram (happened to me four times across macs), were safari starts reloading tabs for no reason, and where smb print share, finder search, and adding shares to finder don't work well because apple decided to stop using (they couldn't what with the new gpl license there) samba and go with their own buggy smb2 1.0 implementation. We are talking here about core os system features that don't work well anymore, let alone all the new ui strangeness and ios loans we suffer through. And don't take my word for it, go to apple support forums and see what kind of bugs have come up and how apple are as per usual stonewalling the press and users are keeping their fingers crossed that at some point they 'll fix them.

But you can ignore this thread anyway if you don't agree... Or can you?

Let's see:

Just go click close tab, then hit the red close window button, shut down your mac, and as soon as you open your mac again safari will pop back up to you, your window will re-open, and there you 'll be once more reading my "whining" about lion. See. That's how great lion works.

 

[Sdreed91]

Excuse me but this is bs. I have run to the forums and marveled with even the prospect of a retina display on the ipad, and a few years before ipads release I was checking the site every week or so for news and speculating on apple's tablet because I was very aware that it would revolutionize a lot of the ways we are doing computing, and it would be a market defining device.

To make these kinds of blanket statements to account for the mess that is lion and the poor effort in developing and refining it that the os x team has put in is ludicrous. Not all people are professional whiners. When people were complaining about untreated glass on the imacs giving reflections and headaches they had a real usability problem that apple only recently will come to address.

When people were adopting snow leopard faster than any other os x release (despite having to go to a store to buy it instead of it being one click away from the app store, despite sl not being pimped with icloud as the only way to sync in the apple ecosystem after mm got cancelled) and the tech blogs and forums were almost universally very pleased with it, it was because snow leopard was a good product, a refinement of a very good os, leopard. Sure there were things on the list that users requested and didn't appear in sl (resolution independence which didn't even happen in lion for example) and minor points of discussion about but the the overall consensus was that sl was a good dot release of os x.

So get off your high horse and realize that apple's user base didn't suddenly go ape **** about lion because they are habitual whiners, they have done so because lion was a very buggy release, a release with very few real under the hood tech advancements (mostly security ones, and welcome ones btw) but an absolute mess in terms of ui choices. The innovations of lion such as autosave, versioning, mission control, save states etc. have been very dubious at best and even people who like or desire them (and I am not talking about habitual john gruber type apple ass kissers here) will admit (if they are honest enough) that they need to be implemented better than they already are and be refined.

There are tons of issues myself and others are facing on lion and I mentioned them in the first post. A good os is not an os where preview is as buggy and unstable as it had never been (never had preview crash on me so many times in os x) where mail goes into memory leaks that make it run up to 2gb of ram (happened to me four times across macs), were safari starts reloading tabs for no reason, and where smb print share, finder search, and adding shares to finder don't work well because apple decided to stop using (they couldn't what with the new gpl license there) samba and go with their own buggy smb2 1.0 implementation. We are talking here about core os system features that don't work well anymore, let alone all the new ui strangeness and ios loans we suffer through. And don't take my word for it, go to apple support forums and see what kind of bugs have come up and how apple are as per usual stonewalling the press and users are keeping their fingers crossed that at some point they 'll fix them.

Relax. I was merely agreeing that it is far more likely that we will hear about the higher complaint rate of something than we will of its successes. Take the new iPad for instance there are tons of threads about what is wrong very few about what is great. I in no way accused you of being a professional whiner. I didn't say what you said wasn't valid. I also never said your problems weren't real. I said I like lion and ML. Relax i meant in no way to offend you. No reason to play the victim card. I am far from riding a high horse, I was adding to the threads conversation.

 

[blow45]

Relax. I was merely agreeing that it is far more likely that we will hear about the higher complaint rate of something than we will of its successes. Take the new iPad for instance there are tons of threads about what is wrong very few about what is great. I in no way accused you of being a professional whiner. I didn't say what you said wasn't valid. I also never said your problems weren't real. I said I like lion and ML. Relax i meant in no way to offend you. No reason to play the victim card. I am far from riding a high horse, I was adding to the threads conversation.

yeah well you were placating me from page one, but then you come and claim

here are always plenty of people who wish to vocalize their complete dislike of Apples products or future direction and then assume they are outnumbering the people who do like lion and ML.

and you are ascribing the issues myself and others are having to a "complete dislike" of apple products.

 

[q64ceo]

You expect a company notorious for forgetting things like "cut and pasting" files and "undo move out of dock" to actually improve something?

 

[s.horsfield]

You can move files... Sure there is no key command but the feature still exists. Secondly wouldn't dragging out of the dock do this?

 

[*LTD*]

OS X is total GUI disaster now. Packed with gimmicky features which do nothing but get in the way or confuse.

What is this based on? Reality, or your personal anecdotes?

You mean Windows 8, right? Now THAT is shaping up to be a disaster. A case can certainly be made for that. Not even close for OS X Lion (and by implication Mountain Lion.)

OS X in its current form has sold more Macs than any other OS X variant in Apple's history. And were not talking about a universally-licensed OS here that sells almost by default. This is a closed OS, as part of a highly vetted and controlled ecosystem that runs on hardware that is comparably more expensive.

Further, the consumer satisfaction ratings for Macs tell more of the story.

 

[belvdr]

What is this based on? Reality, or your personal anecdotes?

You mean Windows 8, right? Now THAT is shaping up to be a disaster. A case can certainly be made for that. Not even close for OS X Lion (and by implication Mountain Lion.)

The same question can be asked for your statement as well.

OS X in its current form has sold more Macs than any other OS X variant in Apple's history. And were not talking about a universally-licensed OS here that sells almost by default. This is a closed OS, as part of a highly vetted and controlled ecosystem that runs on hardware that is comparably more expensive.

Further, the consumer satisfaction ratings for Macs tell more of the story.

No way. I believe many people got a Mac simply for the fact they liked their iOS device. My reasoning is the uptick of Mac sales tends to correlate very nicely to iOS sales.

When folks enjoy one product from a manufacturer, they tend to go back to that manufacturer for other things too. That very thing holds true for my employer and we see it all the time.

 

[chrono1081]

Cool story bro. Really though, if you find that much wrong with the OS, then why use it? Even better yet, why go about trumpeting that its a horrible OS, basically because you said so. The fact is, a large portion of users, from all proficiency levels, have no issues and complaints, and certainly not as many as this. What makes your opinion any more, or even less, valid, or subjective for that matter, than theirs?

This.

I mostly see "I don't know how to use my computer" when I read these threads.

Mac works fine for me and I know I do more with my machine than 99.5% of the users on Macrumors.

Not to mention people never seem to use this:

http://www.apple.com/feedback

 

[Mattie Num Nums]

Mac works fine for me and I know I do more with my machine than 99.5% of the users on Macrumors.

Cool Story Bro.

The irony of your post.

 

[Charcoalwerks]

Is there any support yet for full screen apps on dual monitors with ML?

 

[azpc]

Lion has restricted Mac Sales

"OS X in its current form has sold more Macs than any other OS X variant in Apple's history. And were not talking about a universally-licensed OS here that sells almost by default."

Maybe I am unique, but I know of several hundred Macs that Apple has not sold because of issues with Lion. I can think of twenty clients who used to be Mac users that have gone back to Windows because of Lion. Now as a Mac user that pains me.

This is why I posted this email appeal to Apple here on Mac Rumors.

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1354207/

Apple is so close to having a really great OS. However, some features in Lion need implementation improvements before many users will switch from Snow Leopard or Windows 7.


Apple can resolve these issues by allowing user control over how these new features are implemented...

 

[chrono1081]

Cool Story Bro.

The irony of your post.

Thats not really irony...

With people crying because they don't know how to use Mission Control, or because they don't like the new look of the calendar, or they haven't figured out versions its clear that its not that these features are bad, its that people have a failure to adapt.

If someone can't adapt to something new on a computer thats their own failure.

 

[Mattie Num Nums]

Thats not really irony...

With people crying because they don't know how to use Mission Control, or because they don't like the new look of the calendar, or they haven't figured out versions its clear that its not that these features are bad, its that people have a failure to adapt.

If someone can't adapt to something new on a computer thats their own failure.

Well seeing how it works for you, and you know the truth behind everything...

 

[chrono1081]

Well seeing how it works for you, and you know the truth behind everything...

Um...please reread it without taking it out of context. I stuck a comma in there to help out.

"Mac works fine for me, and I know I do more with my machine than 99.5% of the users on Macrumors."

 

[Paradoxally]

Um...please reread it without taking it out of context. I stuck a comma in there to help out.

"Mac works fine for me, and I know I do more with my machine than 99.5% of the users on Macrumors."

You can't possibly affirm that. That comment displays utter ignorance.

Neither can I affirm that I know what you do with your computer, but I'm 100% sure you don't know what the whole MR userbase does with their computers, so that figure is just highly hypothetical.

 

[macbook pro i5]

Wrong on many counts. It's not because I said so, it's because a vast number of apple's user base has been saying so all over the web, if you are not smelling the coffee it doesn't mean it's not brewing. Also it's not because I said so, it's because I am making a case for it, if you don't agree with my opinion how about replying to my points with a counter opinion but with arguments? That's the whole point of the forum isn't it? Opinions and counter opinions. As far as objectivity goes, i can't see for example how poor smb compatibility introduced in lion creating problems with shared printers, finder access and search of smb networks is subjective and a matter of opinion. I can't see how memory leaks in mail and constant crashes in preview (also reported a lot elsewhere) are subjective opinions. Of course there's subjectivity in some of what I am saying but then hardly anything is objective strictly speaking.

Oh and save me the comment if the os is bad why use it. I am using it because it used to be great, it's the mess apple have made of it I don't like, not the os itself. I am also using it because apple despite having paid them a lot of money for (the crappy according to non other than SJ himself) mm decided that icloud would not be included in sl and required me to uphrade for basic device sync funtionality. OS X was the very reason I switched to mac a looooong time ago, the os x team needs to get their act together and address the problems they introduced for so many long time os x users as well as new users with lion effectively.

What "vast number of apples user base" are you talking about,it runs EVEN faster on my 2011 mac book pro.

 

[atMac]

Why do some people have a problem seeing how whats works for them is broken in another persons opinion? It's called opinion people. Not having an open mind about it is what gives Mac users their "fanboy" and "arrogant" tags when dealing with the rest of the tech community.

If Windows works great for another person then great.
If someone sees problems with the choices made in OS X then great.
If you bash a person for stating their opinion then then problem is you.

 

[jameslmoser]

Why do some people have a problem seeing how whats works for them is broken in another persons opinion? It's called opinion people. Not having an open mind about it is what gives Mac users their "fanboy" and "arrogant" tags when dealing with the rest of the tech community.

If Windows works great for another person then great.
If someone sees problems with the choices made in OS X then great.
If you bash a person for stating their opinion then then problem is you.

couldn't have said this better myself.... believe me I've tried!

----------

What "vast number of apples user base" are you talking about,it runs EVEN faster on my 2011 mac book pro.

I'm one of them. Lion performs horribly on every system I have tried it on... including machines released since Lion.

 

[wikus]

I hate Lion.

The absence of all windows Expose was the first sign and the only sign I needed to get rid of this awful OS. No option to ungroup windows when Mission Control is activated is by far Apple most ridiculous decision... yes, even more than making that four hundred dollar box of crap called the iPod Hi-Fi.

Secondly, Lion is really laggy. On a fresh install with a 2.3ghz Core i7 processor I was seeing jittery animation when selecting tabs in system preferences, window resizing was slow, etc. The whole OS feels like a Beta release. I would expect this kind of lag on an old and cheap Android phone running eclair, but NOT on a brand new laptop with a high end mobile processor.

I got rid of Lion and its recovery partition. Havent looked back (or even considered it) at Lion since switching to Snow Leopard 10.6.8; far more stable from all the horror stories I've read, its definitely faster and uses less RAM, but more importantly, it has Expose.

 

[ClassObject]

I hate windows. Windows sucks and I will use any version of mac os before winblows. I will use linux, smartos, or even a chromebook before windows. I really wish they'd fix windows.

 

[jameslmoser]

I hate windows. Windows sucks and I will use any version of mac os before winblows. I will use linux, smartos, or even a chromebook before windows. I really wish they'd fix windows.

And this is relevant to this thread (site?) how?

 

[Mac32]

FWIW, I think blow45 is right on the money. All his points are very well thought out, and personally I'm sticking with Snow Leopard which I find to be a truly great OS. Lion, not so much. It's as it has been stated already in this thread:
With Lion, Apple started to introduce gimmicky nonsense features that hinders and complicates the work flow, which is why I ditched Microsoft Windows in the first place. Resume, autosave, versions etc..etc.. It's all change for change sake, not because it is an improvement.
Sure it looks good during an Powerpoint presentation, "look we've got so and so many new features in Lion!", at the end of the day...Lion took several steps backwards IMO, not to mention that Lion is noticably more resources hungry, eats up much more ram and more battery than Snow Leopard.
Nope, I'm sticking to Snow Leopard for now. Apple better change or drastically improve most of the new Lion "features" in ML, but I'm not very optimistic about this..

Lets keep iOS away from our Macs. Quite frankly, I think the iPad is overrated anyway. It's made for consumption, not production.