Anybody migrating to PC whilst waiting for new hardware?

[Dr. Stealth]

I jumped ship about 2 months ago, after 40 years with apple. And yes, I'm a little PO'd they made me do that. I waited too long and should have done it much sooner.

For my workflow, Apple has nothing left to offer me, and life must go on.

I do Nvidia CUDA rendering and this put Apple way out in left field...

I now put the ball squarely in Apple's court. If they ever want to win me back they will have to do something absolutely Amazing with the mMP. But I have serious doubts. If they don't no problem, I already have my new workstation.

• Case - Cooler Master COSMOS II 25th Anniversary Edition
• PSU - EVGA SuperNOVA 1600W T2 80+ Titanium
• Motherboard - ASUS Z10PE-D8 WS
• Processors - (2 Air-Cooled) Intel® Xeon® E5-2680 v3 (24 cores - 48 threads)
• GPUs - (4 Water-Cooled) EVGA GeForce GTX 1080 Ti FTW3
• RAM - Samsung 128GB (16GBx8) DDR4 2133 ECC (PC4-17000)
• SSD (Boot Drive) - Samsung 970 EVO 2TB (MZ-V7E2T0BW) – NVMe M.2
• SSD (Data Drive) - Samsung 860 EVO 4TB (MZ-76E4T0B/AM) – SATA III
• Fans - Noctua everywhere

My mid-2010 5,1 cMP will be on eBay very soon. And I may even shed a small tear...

We had a very good 8 year run together.

Apple has been killing off professional apps like Aperture and giving us new Emojis in macOS from iOS as a big bonus.

Cost was around $10k. But it will last me many years as every component is easily up-gradable....

 

[Ph.D.]

I retired my old 3,1 in favor of a linux box as my main number cruncher a few years ago. Currently, it's a 6700k with a GTX-1070 on a tired Apple display, but I'm thinking of upgrading to a 9900k, a 2080ti and a nice 4k monitor, partly just for fun.

It triple boots into two different versions of linux plus Windows, though I feel dirty every time I boot into the latter. Do yourself a favor and consider linux over Windows. There are many flavors to choose from.

I also have an iMac for day to day stuff. Mac OS is definitely a little better sorted-out than linux, but with less freedom and control, and with some doubts about its long term existence.

I'm still interested in what Apple has in store for the Mac Pro, but like so many of us here I waited long enough, and am glad I didn't wait even longer.

 

[Flint Ironstag]

Timely thread. Dr. Stealth, nice rig. I've gone from MP 1,1 to 3,1 to a couple of 6,1s. Now I'm going to Hack this Z820. I've got a steadily growing collection of them at work, and they are really impressive machines.

In the evenings and weekends for surfing the web or an occasional Blizzard game, nMP is perfect: stable, small, silent, beautiful, and responsive. Makes a damn good Plex server as well for all those reasons. But the GPUs are weak, and I'm not giving Apple any money for a half-baked, unsupported, underperforming, and expensive eGPU solution. Had eGPU been officially supported with the caveat that TB2 may not provide sufficient bandwidth for all use cases, I probably would have overspent just to remain in the Apple ecosystem. But hey, this HP's got PCIe expansion galore, and TB2.

So I find myself with a growing collection of HP Z820s at the office. I am extremely impressed with them.

I just picked up another Z820 for myself, mainly for tinkering and cracking low hanging fruit before passing heavier jobs on.

I do not like Windows, but I like this hardware and I bet it makes a mean Hackintosh:

- dual 8 core Xeon @ 3.1GHz (liquid cooled) E5-2687W for you model # people
- 32GB RAM
- (2) 15k spinners
- (2) 240GB SSD
- old Quadro 5000

I already had a GTX 970, some more RAM, and new storage to throw in there. $800 on eBay. It's definitely good enough to play WoW, Heroes of the Storm, and all the VR titles I'm currently interested in. I'm going to try this Hackintosh method - maybe next week. I'll do a post in the Alternative Lifestyles forum.

 

[Morriss]

I had a 3,1 Mac Pro, but could wait no longer to upgrade and decided to build my own PC. This was about a year ago, so I went with a Ryzen 1700X (overclocked to 3.8GHz), ASRock Taichi MB, 500GB Samsung 960 EVO boot drive, Scythe Mugen cooler with Noctua fans in a huge Phanteks case. I've filled it with 1-4 TB spinning drives and a DVD drive as well. I'm able to upgrade to the 2700X or the new Zen chips in 2019. Total cost was under $1,700.00.

My Cinebench score went from 600 (Mac Pro) to 1650 (PC). I mainly do 2D/3D work in Photoshop and Cinema 4D, so I barely notice that I'm using a Windows OS. I remapped my keyboard as a Mac layout and I use both PC and Mac side by side.

I still would a prefer a desktop Mac with an i7/i9 chip inside, but I'm really glad I made the switch. For me, the benefits of owning a more powerful, upgradable, cheaper machine outweighs the benefits of a better OS. But, I respect those who think otherwise.

 

[orph]

most people i know not doing big work just use an apple laptop, for light/most video work it's all you need.
id assume anyone doing more complex (high end compute needs etc) work has long left apple for back in 2013. (but still uses a apple laptop id gess, every one i see locally in media work uses an apple laptop 13" or air as a carry around )

edit amazing setup @Dr. Stealth what apps do you use that can actually use all that power?
is it 3D renders?

 

[Horselover Fat]

I'll stay with my 4,1->5,1 for as long as possible. At least until it's been here for 10 years which will be next May. Then it's either the new MP, a hackintosh or Windows. I'd like to go the first route but I am not optimistic that Apple will give us what we want. The other two options don't seem worthwhile either.
[doublepost=1539754291][/doublepost]

This solution seems very good to me. After the initial setup, the maintenance is pretty much the same as the cMP, able to upgrade, fast and quiet, stay with MacOS, and even better, always have boot screen.

So that when my 5,1 die, I can switch to it straight away (if the 7,1 is not what I want, or even still not available yet).

How much of a pain are OS updates? Are these still as risky as in the past? How do you view the T2's growing significance?

 

[h9826790]

I'll stay with my 4,1->5,1 for as long as possible. At least until it's been here for 10 years which will be next May. Then it's either the new MP, a hackintosh or Windows. I'd like to go the first route but I am not optimistic that Apple will give us what we want. The other two options don't seem worthwhile either.
[doublepost=1539754291][/doublepost]How much of a pain are OS updates? Are these still as risky as in the past? How do you view the T2's growing significance?

Easier than update OS with Maxwell / Pascal card's on cMP.

For small OS update, it's possible that only install the update in Appstore is good enough, like a real Mac.

For large OS upgrade, may need to update Clover or some efi files, then just follow the exact procedures on tonymac is the way to go (usually only few steps).

Since the Hackintosh always has boot screen, and we can manage the EFI folder in Windows (if something goes wrong). The maintenance is fairly straight even if we accidentally "destroy" the macOS setup.

Anyway, the whole idea is simple. Keep the Clover / EFI safe. As long as Clover is working, the Hackintosh is pretty much like a cMP that aways has boot screen.

 

[zen]

I migrated, and it is glorious. I built a custom PC workstation that fulfilled every specification I wanted, all inside a beautiful case that allows full and easy internal access (admittedly, the aesthetic appeal is not necessary for function, but it just shows that Apple are not the only ones who can do industrial design well), for less than half the price of a comparable Mac. Not only that, every single component is user-upgradable.

Windows 10 isn't as good as macOS, but the other benefits of building a PC far outweight any concerns I had there.

Apple has abandoned the pro market. Even if they announced the amazing magical modular Mac Pro tomorrow, there is no gaurantee they will continue to update and support it - indeed, they now have an established track record of ignoring pro users, and I'm not really sure if they can ever get that pro user confidence back.

 

[h9826790]

May be...... may be Apple will mention the 7,1 this time.

 

[Average Pro]

Nope

 

[Manzanito]

May be...... may be Apple will mention the 7,1 this time.
View attachment 796399
View attachment 796403

Too soon. We are five months away from their annual “We’re working hard on a new mac pro so great that you won’t believe it when you see it” meeting with Gruber and Panzarino.

Excuse the rant, but I really think we’ll get no mention of the 7,1, and the reason is they have put a lot of effort to make the 5,1 compatible with mojave. That makes me think we won’t hear anything about the 7,1 until wwdc 2019 at the earliest.

I would LOVE to be wrong, though.

 

[Dr. Stealth]

amazing setup @Dr. Stealth what apps do you use that can actually use all that power?
is it 3D renders?

CADD Design, 3D Modeling & Rendering. Using Solidworks, Solidworks Visualize & Cinema 4D lately...

Some renderers use CPU's some use GPU's. Solidworks Visualize is a Hybrid renderer. It will use all CPU's and all GPU's simultaneously when rendering. So when I start a render both CPU's and all 4 GPU's get pegged at 98-100% utilization and stay there for hours, sometimes days.

To me (a retired aerospace engineer) it's a beautiful thing to see a powerful machine running at 100%. Xeon CPU's with 24 cores 48 threads and GPU's with 14,336 CUDA cores all running at 98-100%. It's actually amazing to see....

When most people see this set-up with a little LED action going on and the water cooling they assume it's a gaming/overclocking machine. It is not. It is a Workstation. The water cooling was actually necessary. When stacking 4 double slot GPU's on top of each other with the air-coolers the backplates of the upper GPU totally cuts off the airflow to the GPU below it. Then the cards over-heat, and at 84c the GPU's will automatically throttle down and decrease in performance to keep the temps below 84c. Now, with water on the cards the most I see when hammering the cards is 60c.

The Xeons do just fine on air so I left them out of the water-loop so as not to increase the temp of the loop.

 

[orph]

@Dr. Stealth your reply made me smile
so nice to see some one who knows how to use a computer and how to make a computer for what they do.

it relay is the most important thing for doing things on computer's is to understand what you want and what will do it best without messing around

and CAD is fun

 

[ssgbryan]

I have to disagree, sorry. I use Windows a lot and it is just fine. The two operating systems are more alike than different which is why I am puzzled when people say they'd rather do a career change than use Windows.

They are too emotionally invested to consider leaving, regardless of the cost.
[doublepost=1540753099][/doublepost]I picked up an HP Z210 ($40). It will be my casual gaming boxen once I finish beefing it up (So far - GT1030, 16Gb Ram, 2TB HDD (data); still need to add an SSD (boot) and upgrade the CPU (E3-1270)

If Apple screws up the 7,1, my next workstation will be an AMD Threadripper with as many WX5100s as I can stuff in it.

Now that I think about it - A Mac Pro built around a Threadripper 2990WX with slots for stuffing WX8200 gpu cards would be awesome. (I only REALLY need 1 kidney )

 

[OneyedK]

If Apple screws up the 7,1, my next workstation will be an AMD Threadripper with as many WX5100s as I can stuff in it.

Now that I think about it - A Mac Pro built around a Threadripper 2990WX with slots for stuffing WX8200 gpu cards would be awesome. (I only REALLY need 1 kidney )

Give an AMD a spin with Windows or MacOS before you donate that kidney. All I can say is, it's far from a smooth experience. If you have your heart set on AMD, find a Linux distro to your liking, much better.
(based on my own experience with the 2700X)

 

[zen]

They are too emotionally invested to consider leaving, regardless of the cost.

The Cult of Apple is powerful.

Now that I think about it - A Mac Pro built around a Threadripper 2990WX with slots for stuffing WX8200 gpu cards would be awesome. (I only REALLY need 1 kidney )

Well, this goes back to something I said earlier - imagine if Apple licensed macOS again, and you could build whatever system you wanted. In a perfect world, that would be the ideal solution.

 

[strukt]

Yes, several years ago when I realized that Apple is only about design and not performance.

I still use iPhone and my MacBook Pro tho, but if my employer didn't pay for it I wouldn't. Even tho I like the iOS / macOS ecosystem.

 

[-hh]

An interesting & timely thread...

Thus said, my "old reliable" Canon PIXMA inkjet clogged up & I wasted too much time trying to clean the printhead this weekend, which got me to searching NewEgg Sunday night looking at potential alternatives ...

... at which point I noticed that there was a fire sale on some refurb SFF Lenovo's ... not great specs, but only ~$200ish and including a Win10 license. Wasted some more time.

What I'm thinking is to just order a cheap PC to test-out my revised workflows to determine what all is needed to retire the cMP's. Once the workflows are solid, then I'll drop $5K that would have been for a 7,1 into a Win10 workhorse tower, repurpose this little i5 cheapo testbed PC into a network server, and take the cost savings to splurge on a weekend fling someplace ... maybe finally buy Broadway tickets to Hamilton.

 

[mschmalenbach]

I don't think Apple cares too much about a certain group of pro users - ever since they changed direction in this area, their cash pile & stock price have climbed like a homesick angel.

I run Win 7 on Parallels on my very top end MacBook Pro late 2017, and Win 10 on a i7 quadcore HP fully tricked out laptop. I do video work - nothing too complex.

Windows has come a long way. But not far enough for me.

Apple has gotten pretty poor relative to history, with software quality & releases. On more than 1 occassion I did a full macOS update in the departure lounge at Heathrow whilst transiting from US to places further east - it was that reliable & painless. No more.

Let's see what tomorrow brings but I use Windows only where & when I have to, which now is only for 1 app, and even that is likely to no longer be an issue next year...

Apple & macOS have issues, and there are things I cringe at, but MS has a long way to go before I'd switch back.

 

[ssgbryan]

Give an AMD a spin with Windows or MacOS before you donate that kidney. All I can say is, it's far from a smooth experience. If you have your heart set on AMD, find a Linux distro to your liking, much better.
(based on my own experience with the 2700X)

The strengths of Threadripper match my workflow (3D rendering). My primary software (Blender, Poser, Vue, ZBrush) will use every core I can throw at it. Add in the AMD ProRender Engine and I am in computing Nirvana.

I started dealing with Linux before the 1.0 kernel - it isn't anymore ready for prime-time now than it was back in the early 90's - None of my software runs on it.
[doublepost=1540827044][/doublepost]

An interesting & timely thread...

What I'm thinking is to just order a cheap PC to test-out my revised workflows to determine what all is needed to retire the cMP's. Once the workflows are solid, then I'll drop $5K that would have been for a 7,1 into a Win10 workhorse tower, repurpose this little i5 cheapo testbed PC into a network server, and take the cost savings to splurge on a weekend fling someplace ... maybe finally buy Broadway tickets to Hamilton.

That is what I am doing with my $40 HP Z210.

 

[orph]

i am looking hard at making a hack, for me an ideal setup is a small apple laptop for general use then a tower for video editing, photo editing and website production. (and relay video is the only thing ill want more speed for, still photo editing is as fast as i need it at the mo)

when the time comes if possible ill go AMD (next gen not this gen) simply there cheaper/better value for what i want & the next gen 2700 equivalent is what i will have my eye on. (or 2700 on fire sale )

UK pricing is lame
8700 £360-380
8700k £380-400
9600K £300 (only 6c but so close to an 8700K in price just sad)
9700K £500
9800K £600
cooler will add a bit £20-60?

amd
2700 £260
2700x £290

so if AMD keep's up the low cost and the hackingtosh people get it working well it will be super tempting or if intel slashes the pricing in the UK at least on the 8700 or 9700K (or equivalent next gen) ill look that way, also wont be till intls next gen that specter and meltdown will be hardware fixed so in some ways this gen may be worth skipping from intel to

 

[zen]

i am looking hard at making a hack, for me an ideal setup is a small apple laptop for general use then a tower for video editing, photo editing and website production. (and relay video is the only thing ill want more speed for, still photo editing is as fast as i need it at the mo)

when the time comes if possible ill go AMD (next gen not this gen) simply there cheaper/better value for what i want & the next gen 2700 equivalent is what i will have my eye on. (or 2700 on fire sale )

UK pricing is lame
8700 £360-380
8700k £380-400
9600K £300 (only 6c but so close to an 8700K in price just sad)
9700K £500
9800K £600
cooler will add a bit £20-60?

amd
2700 £260
2700x £290

so if AMD keep's up the low cost and the hackingtosh people get it working well it will be super tempting or if intel slashes the pricing in the UK at least on the 8700 or 9700K (or equivalent next gen) ill look that way, also wont be till intls next gen that specter and meltdown will be hardware fixed so in some ways this gen may be worth skipping from intel to

Depending how Brexit goes, prices on those components may be slapped with gigantic tarifs, so it might be worth planning on building your new machine before March 2019. I'm doing the same with my laptop purchase - I want an X1C, and again the price of that might double if the UK crashes out, so I'm trying to budget for it before then.

 

[orph]

o god dont remind me
right now i dont need more computer than i have so it's not on the cards, so what we get next year is in the winds.
well it will be a crash crash back in to the EU crash out or crash sideways who knows? it's a mess at the mo

but i will take a close look at the Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera 4K, not looked in to it yet but looks like it may be a real beast of a camera for the price, hope to god it's not still got the 20 min battery life

plan B is coasting as long as i can on my 5.1 then picking up some used PC box

edit at the mo i dont need more computer, just it's on my mind that the time will come soonish