Anybody not carry the actual credit cards since using Apple Pay?

[ecschwarz]

Actually, it could cost merchants more but not because of Apple Pay per se. It's more due to routing debit cards over Visa/MC, since that tends to be more expensive in general. While some stores do try to run debit over networks other than Visa or MC when you use NFC (such as Safeway), it tends to produce PIN prompts and other UX issues for those using their phones to pay. Plus, it might cause more credit card use, which also costs them more (whereas their customer base might be more likely to use debit cards now).

The debit-as-a-side-effect component is one that I hadn't thought of, so thanks for adding that. The last time I used PIN-based debit was back when Aldi was that or cash-only, so it slipped my mind. Still, it seems the notion that "Apple is getting money directly from ___" idea keeps popping up on various forums and in person, almost cyclically.

I'm waiting to see the "we don't take Apple Card" instances that will inevitably pop up if someone breaks out the physical card.

 

[maniacmedia]

To this point, I rarely use Apple Pay. Though I do think about it as an afterthought. With every merchant seemingly using a different capture system, I can't imagine that I wouldn't have at least one card on me.

 

[tmiw]

To this point, I rarely use Apple Pay. Though I do think about it as an afterthought. With every merchant seemingly using a different capture system, I can't imagine that I wouldn't have at least one card on me.

This is where forcing merchants to use similar terminals and not allowing them to use anything other than the software that comes on them would have helped. At least most major retailers seem to use the same Verifone MX900 series terminals, so there's that.

 

[lartola]

Oooo, I figured that Apple Pay was rock solid and the only thing to worry about was whether they took it. Some stores have the equipment but was told by store employees they decided not to turn it on as Apple Pay charges them more than dipping a credit card into the payment machine.

That's a blatant lie they told you. Merchants don't have to pay anything extra to accept Apple Pay vs dipping a regular card, hence why Apple Pay can be used anywhere contactless payment is accepted including locations in countries where Apple Pay is otherwise unsupported such as Mexico, South Korea or India. Banks do have to pay a fee per transaction to Apple to allow their customers to use Apple Pay, which is why in some countries they have been reluctant to jump onboard, but they rarely if at all pass that fee on to their customers or the merchants.
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I'm thinking since I use Apple Pay of not carrying most of the actual credit cards on Apple Pay. How often do you run into situations in which you wish you had the actual plastic/metal credit card?

I usually carry an ATM debit card, my IDs and the same credit card I have set as default on Apple Pay. Only occasionally, when I know I will be heading only to one or more places where I used Apple Pay successfully before, I do take the credit card out of my wallet and leave it behind. And even then, I have run into the situation of Apple Pay failing to work (with the issue usually being on the merchant's terminal).

 

[tmiw]

The debit-as-a-side-effect component is one that I hadn't thought of, so thanks for adding that. The last time I used PIN-based debit was back when Aldi was that or cash-only, so it slipped my mind. Still, it seems the notion that "Apple is getting money directly from ___" idea keeps popping up on various forums and in person, almost cyclically.

I'm waiting to see the "we don't take Apple Card" instances that will inevitably pop up if someone breaks out the physical card.

That likely keeps popping up due to being a vastly oversimplified (but easy) answer. I wonder how many of the holdouts would have accepted contactless had there been one consistent debit network that at least permits smaller transactions without authentication (much like Interac and Canada).

 

[Dingster101]

I still have to carry a debit card here in rural Va. Food Lion, Circle K are the only 2 places that I can use it. McD’s also but I rarely go there.

 

[dannyyankou]

I usually carry the physical credit card, but there are huge advantages to digital cards. Today, my Netflix account was compromised and I had to replace my Chase Freedom card. So here I am thinking I have to wait for my new card to come in the mail and enter in the details in the wallet app all over again. But I opened the wallet app, and my card was already updated with the new card number over the air. Like magic.

 

[lartola]

I usually carry the physical credit card, but there are huge advantages to digital cards. Today, my Netflix account was compromised and I had to replace my Chase Freedom card. So here I am thinking I have to wait for my new card to come in the mail and enter in the details in the wallet app all over again. But I opened the wallet app, and my card was already updated with the new card number over the air. Like magic.

yeah Chase updates cards on apple pay automatically. Last year my Chase card was compromised and had to be replaced. Since the account is shared, it was one of my relatives who detected a fraudulent charge and reported it. Chase assigns the same number to all cards in a shared account, so all our cards were disabled for security. Without even knowing, I actually used the new card over apple pay before my relative called to inform me about the cards being cancelled and replaced for security. It’s just amazing.

 

[MisterSavage]

I usually carry the physical credit card, but there are huge advantages to digital cards. Today, my Netflix account was compromised and I had to replace my Chase Freedom card. So here I am thinking I have to wait for my new card to come in the mail and enter in the details in the wallet app all over again. But I opened the wallet app, and my card was already updated with the new card number over the air. Like magic.

Isn't that incredible? I was floored when I realized I was able to still use my card with Apple Pay while I was waiting for my physical replacement when my card got shut down for a fraudulent charge. I never would have expected that.

 

[Erehy Dobon]

.

 

[AZhappyjack]

There are some major chains that don't accept Apple Pay. While I don't shop there, one of them is Target I believe. (I don't shop there often.) I know there are more.

Only recently did the Safeway grocery store chain start accepting Apple Pay.

And there's always the chance that Apple Pay doesn't work at any given moment. It happens about every other week for me at a particular retailer.

There are quite a few mom-and-pop businesses that haven't yet installed NFC contactless payment terminals. The two dry cleaners I use are good examples.

Also, quite a few gas stations still use magnetic swipe POS terminals installed in the pump. I suppose I could go inside and do Apple Pay (if they have it), but there's always a chance they don't.

Even amongst the merchants at the farmers market who do accept credit cards, quite a few are still using EMV/swipe credit card readers.

And probably the most important, there are a lot of restaurants in the USA that do not have handheld NFC contactless payment terminals that are more prevalent in Europe. Unless you only dine at fast food restaurants or major chains, you are probably going to quickly run into a restaurant that doesn't accept Apple Pay.

Target does Pay now... but, yes, there are many... and I try to avoid them when I can. I could not tell you the last time I was in a Target store - years.

https://corporate.target.com/article/2019/01/store-payment-options

 

[MisterSavage]

Only recently did the Safeway grocery store chain start accepting Apple Pay. Of the two major drugstore chains in my area (CVS and Walgreens), CVS was a longtime Apple Pay holdout, maybe still is.

CVS finally caved and officially supports it now.

 

[ecschwarz]

There are some major chains that don't accept Apple Pay. While I don't shop there, one of them is Target I believe. (I don't shop there often.) I know there are more.

As others have said, Target and CVS have added support - the big holdouts seem to be Walmart/Sam's Club, Kroger (and all of its subsidiaries), Home Depot, Lowes, and Wendy's for what I can think of off of the top of my head.

 

[CTHarrryH]

I was visiting Alaska earlier this year and it seemed as if every store accepted Apple Pay. I think they all used the same terminal type and probably have one vendor that does the card processing - it was nice being able to consistently use the card.
I find the hardest thing when I'm using a ApplePay terminal is finding where to place the phone near so it registers with the register - would be nice if some terminals had a note - place phone near here

 

[kamikazeeMC]

Had to switch my bank to one that supported Apple Pay, since then I stopped carrying my wallet and leave my licence in the car.

 

[lartola]

There are some major chains that don't accept Apple Pay. While I don't shop there, one of them is Target I believe. (I don't shop there often.) I know there are more.

Only recently did the Safeway grocery store chain start accepting Apple Pay. Of the two major drugstore chains in my area (CVS and Walgreens), CVS was a longtime Apple Pay holdout, maybe still is.

And there's always the chance that Apple Pay doesn't work at any given moment. It happens about every other week for me at a particular retailer.

There are quite a few mom-and-pop businesses that haven't yet installed NFC contactless payment terminals. The two dry cleaners I use are good examples. My dentist also doesn't accept Apple Pay although she takes all major credit cards.

Also, quite a few gas stations still use magnetic swipe POS terminals installed in the pump. I suppose I could go inside and do Apple Pay (if they have it), but there's always a chance they don't.

Even amongst the merchants at the farmers market who do accept credit cards, quite a few are still using EMV/swipe credit card readers.

And probably the most important, there are a lot of restaurants in the USA that do not have handheld NFC contactless payment terminals that are more prevalent in Europe. Unless you only dine at fast food restaurants or major chains, you are probably going to quickly run into a restaurant that doesn't accept Apple Pay.

While I have an NFC contactless transit card for the local transit agencies, many occasional riders still purchase individual tickets from the ticket vending machine which only accepts cash and credit cards (no debit cards, no NFC contactless payments). Occasionally I see a rider who doesn't have any cash and only has a debit card; they either have to rely on a friend to buy the ticket or they have to hike to an ATM to withdraw cash (thus missing the next train).

So yeah, there are situations in my life where having a credit card with a magnetic stripe is still practical.

Just FYI, CVS and Target are no longer holding out of Apple Pay. They both relented, along with others such as 7-eleven, and started taking Apple Pay again last year. They now accept it at all their stores, so that's more places where you can use Apple Pay in your area.

 

[RootBeerMan]

Still carry my cards, since not everybody is on the bandwagon.

 

[someone28624]

I don't carry my Apple Card with me, since I would never use it some place without apple pay and only get 1% cash back. It's still in the box it came in. I do carry other cards with me.

 

[mlody]

I was visiting Alaska earlier this year and it seemed as if every store accepted Apple Pay. I think they all used the same terminal type and probably have one vendor that does the card processing - it was nice being able to consistently use the card.
I find the hardest thing when I'm using a ApplePay terminal is finding where to place the phone near so it registers with the register - would be nice if some terminals had a note - place phone near here

I agree about the note. Some terminals are huge and it feels like playing minesweeper trying to locate the stupid nfc radio. This gets even worse when using Apple Watch.

 

[BlankStar]

Apple Pay is a blessing in Belgium. The only place you can't use Apple Pay is where they don't accept any kind of card and it's cash only, so no added value in taking your physical cards with you.

 

[lartola]

Apple Pay is a blessing in Belgium. The only place you can't use Apple Pay is where they don't accept any kind of card and it's cash only, so no added value in taking your physical cards with you.

It makes you wonder why it took Apple nearly five years to launch Apple Pay there. And why Apple Pay debuted in the US with only 3% of the merchants being able to accept it there at the time of the debut, in 2014, when in Belgium and many other European countries contactless was already ubiquitous at the same time.

 

[tmiw]

It makes you wonder why it took Apple nearly five years to launch Apple Pay there. And why Apple Pay debuted in the US with only 3% of the merchants being able to accept it there at the time of the debut, in 2014, when in Belgium and many other European countries contactless was already ubiquitous at the same time.

As mentioned before, 2014 happened to be right when American businesses started working on chip acceptance. Without any form of contactless payment being available to customers, they would simply not have bothered with new terminals capable of supporting it. That would have made it far more difficult (if not impossible) for Apple Pay or really any form of contactless* to get any sort of foothold**. Hell, there's already some of that happening despite Apple Pay (for example, Clover and Toast POS systems with chip slots built into their displays, though to the former's credit there's at least add-on hardware that supports Apple Pay).

That all said, would it have been a good idea for Apple to release AP in more places sooner? Sure, but there were likely a bunch of reasons why it didn't work out that way.

* Samsung Pay probably would have been able to take better advantage had this happened thanks to its MST support. That'd require much better marketing, though, and I'm not sure it would have made enough of a dent to force Apple e.g. into supporting MST.

** In fact, I suspect banks and merchants were perfectly okay with never bothering with contactless until Apple Pay became a thing. Now? Some of the former are trying contactless cards again (something that was deemed a market failure before), in no small part due to there being enough terminal penetration now to make another attempt worthwhile.

 

[lartola]

As mentioned before, 2014 happened to be right when American businesses started working on chip acceptance. Without any form of contactless payment being available to customers, they would simply not have bothered with new terminals capable of supporting it. That would have made it far more difficult (if not impossible) for Apple Pay or really any form of contactless* to get any sort of foothold**. Hell, there's already some of that happening despite Apple Pay (for example, Clover and Toast POS systems with chip slots built into their displays, though to the former's credit there's at least add-on hardware that supports Apple Pay).

That all said, would it have been a good idea for Apple to release AP in more places sooner? Sure, but there were likely a bunch of reasons why it didn't work out that way.

* Samsung Pay probably would have been able to take better advantage had this happened thanks to its MST support. That'd require much better marketing, though, and I'm not sure it would have made enough of a dent to force Apple e.g. into supporting MST.

** In fact, I suspect banks and merchants were perfectly okay with never bothering with contactless until Apple Pay became a thing. Now? Some of the former are trying contactless cards again (something that was deemed a market failure before), in no small part due to there being enough terminal penetration now to make another attempt worthwhile.

I’m not sure you got my point. I understand it’s easier to roll out in one country first and then expand the service to others. My point is that Apple messed up big time in choosing the US to be that one country. Why did Apple choose as the first country to launch Apple Pay a country where merchants weren’t even bothering with contactless? there were several countries in 2014 where contactless was already ubiquitous, as opposed to the US where its availability was extremely limited, and any one of them was a better prospect to be the first country to launch apple pay than the US. Why not launch Apple Pay in one of those countries on October 20th 2014? It sure sounds like Apple didn’t bother to study other markets and just went ahead and launched Apple Pay in the US first because that’s where they live without any further thought. And now adoption of the service in the US is the lowest in the world because people got too used to not being able to pay with apple pay most of the time.

And don’t say it was impossible to do otherwise, I’ve heard that argument enough times and it’s just not true. Apple has already premiered at least one feature (iTunes/Appstore carrier billing) somewhere outside the US because the US wasn’t ready for it for whatever reasons, so it’s possible, it’s feasible, and it won’t be the end of the world for Apple to start rolling out one or more new features outside the US and leave the rollout of those features in the US for a later time when the US is ready for them.

 

[Luba]

I’m not sure you got my point. I understand it’s easier to roll out in one country first and then expand the service to others. My point is that Apple messed up big time in choosing the US to be that one country. Why did Apple choose as the first country to launch Apple Pay a country where merchants weren’t even bothering with contactless? there were several countries in 2014 where contactless was already ubiquitous, as opposed to the US where its availability was extremely limited, and any one of them was a better prospect to be the first country to launch apple pay than the US. Why not launch Apple Pay in one of those countries on October 20th 2014? It sure sounds like Apple didn’t bother to study other markets and just went ahead and launched Apple Pay in the US first because that’s where they live without any further thought. And now adoption of the service in the US is the lowest in the world because people got too used to not being able to pay with apple pay most of the time.

And don’t say it was impossible to do otherwise, I’ve heard that argument enough times and it’s just not true. Apple has already premiered at least one feature (iTunes/Appstore carrier billing) somewhere outside the US because the US wasn’t ready for it for whatever reasons, so it’s possible, it’s feasible, and it won’t be the end of the world for Apple to start rolling out one or more new features outside the US and leave the rollout of those features in the US for a later time when the US is ready for them.

I think Apple likes to release features in the US first as they're an American company. But in an ironic way, launching AP in Europe and/or Asian first might have made AP more accepted here (like you wrote above) and thus better.

 

[tmiw]

I’m not sure you got my point. I understand it’s easier to roll out in one country first and then expand the service to others. My point is that Apple messed up big time in choosing the US to be that one country. Why did Apple choose as the first country to launch Apple Pay a country where merchants weren’t even bothering with contactless? there were several countries in 2014 where contactless was already ubiquitous, as opposed to the US where its availability was extremely limited, and any one of them was a better prospect to be the first country to launch apple pay than the US. Why not launch Apple Pay in one of those countries on October 20th 2014? It sure sounds like Apple didn’t bother to study other markets and just went ahead and launched Apple Pay in the US first because that’s where they live without any further thought. And now adoption of the service in the US is the lowest in the world because people got too used to not being able to pay with apple pay most of the time.

And don’t say it was impossible to do otherwise, I’ve heard that argument enough times and it’s just not true. Apple has already premiered at least one feature (iTunes/Appstore carrier billing) somewhere outside the US because the US wasn’t ready for it for whatever reasons, so it’s possible, it’s feasible, and it won’t be the end of the world for Apple to start rolling out one or more new features outside the US and leave the rollout of those features in the US for a later time when the US is ready for them.

My point is more that contactless very likely would never have been a thing had Apple not released when it did. Or at the very least, not without, say, paying merchants to replace their hardware so soon after already doing so for chip (or even agreeing to give their 0.15% fee to them)--neither option of which is ideal. After all, Verifone is based in the US and given the size of the market, they'd totally be willing to build US only devices without NFC support if it'd get them marketshare.

As for carrier billing, I'm not even sure US carriers provide it as an option. And even if they did there's no guarantee that it'd be used much; after all, many of the countries listed as supporting it tend to use cash in general more often.