Anyone at this point considering a PC Workstation?

[linuxcooldude]

I can't see myself paying the kind of money apple wants for a Mac Pro again. My 2008 machine was great value but more and more, I see it as an anomaly....A blip in apple's otherwise uniformly overpriced strategy. I can stomach the apple tax for phones, ipads, even laptops on occasion but the Mac Pro's are stupid money for not even the best performance anymore.

For desktops now, I'm a Hackintosh guy and if Apple ever sqiushes that scene, I'll just migrate to Windows for the heavy lifting. None of the appeal from 2008 is still there for a workstation.

That said, I'd love apple to surprise me but it's a while since their surprises were nice ones.

Most of Apples products are not designed for the budget crowd. They are a premium product and so are priced accordingly.

Normally you won't find great value in a Mac Pro except in getting work done.

In many cases, cost is relative when compared ( Base models, not including adding extra memory ect. ) to the cost of the software & accessories that the Mac Pro is needed to run them.

If your using a Mac Pro just for email, Youtube & social networking, then its not going to be a good value.

Using it to do your job, tight schedules, high load requirements, dependability over long periods of time, thats what the Mac Pro was designed for.

 

[SDAVE]

That email doesn't instill any faith in me at all. What CEO wouldn't claim that they have "great" stuff in the pipeline? Of course Apple never has official press releases regarding future products, but most of the time there are whispers and leaks that guide the consumer in a general direction. There's none of that with the Mac Pro, and we've already seen what the first iteration of "updates" has looked like under Cook's watch. I'm not saying that there isn't a solid update on the horizon, but the information we have is not very much to go on. And considering the direction the company has taken with its other product lines, I'm not so sure that the next version of the Mac Pro is what we've all been waiting for.

It's not about faith at all. Apple doesn't do "faith."

It's either a yes or no.

Believe me, I want a new Mac Pro line that gets constant updates like the MBP or iMac.

I think they want to stop using Xeon processors and move to single CPUs and make the footprint smaller (which in turn means less PCIe and drive slots).

Apple's cash cow is iOS devices now, but I highly doubt the company completely forgot about the Mac Pro users (sans the FCP debacle).

 

[scottsjack]

. . . but I am afraid they don't have customers like us in mind any longer.

Quote of the day. The MacRumors Mac Pro forum is filled with posts by Mac Pro owners who just want some modern conveniences like current GPUs, USB3 and yes even Thunderbolt and Blu-ray. The MacRumors Mac mini forum is currently discussing high operating temperatures and the lack of a discrete GPU.

Not that any of us know the future but I really have a strong feeling that Apple doesn't built computers for us any longer. Other than the probably soon to be extinguished non-retina MacBook Pro 15in there hasn't been a model released since the 2010 Mac Pro that fits my needs.

 

[gpzjock]

My 3,1 MP is just about maxed out this year, unless I upgrade to Mountain Moggy from Snowy so I can benefit from Nvidia Kepler cards. After that it is the long road to Team Obsolete for my faithful Apple workstation.
I have no intention to replace OS X with Windows but for just over a grand I could make a Hackintosh i7 overclocked to 4.5GHz with SSD, Raid 0 HDDs, 32GB RAM and a GTX670.
Tempting. If I do I'll post Geekbench scores.

 

[MacMilligan]

I went the Hackintosh route and do not have any complaints. Putting it into a G5 case made it look nice. I am actually surprised how well the hackintosh works. No sleep issues, absolutely no kernal panics or anything. Everything just works. Its been nice having USB 3.0. The TonymacOSX guys even have LGA2011 processors working if you can live without sleep.

I'd definitely consider buying a new Mac Pro.

 

[Gomff]

Most of Apples products are not designed for the budget crowd. They are a premium product and so are priced accordingly.

Normally you won't find great value in a Mac Pro except in getting work done.

In many cases, cost is relative when compared ( Base models, not including adding extra memory ect. ) to the cost of the software & accessories that the Mac Pro is needed to run them.

If your using a Mac Pro just for email, Youtube & social networking, then its not going to be a good value.

Using it to do your job, tight schedules, high load requirements, dependability over long periods of time, thats what the Mac Pro was designed for.

It would be madness to buy a mac pro for basic tasks. I use my machines for 3d graphics and for rendering. The thing is that a windows box which has hackintosh compatible parts is by far a more sensible, cost effective and powerful solution for me.

The only advantage my mac has over the hackintosh is quietness and knowing that I can do system updates the day they come out if I want to (which generally I don't anyway).

The worrying thing is that both Windows and Apple Eco systems are moving towards walled gardens whereby the only way to install applications is through an app store. The day that happens is the day I opt out and look at Linux.

 

[subwelt]

Sleek and easy to use are positive. What functionality, customization options and 'access to information' does Windows have that OS X lacks for professional use?

Good question that I cannot answer. My knowledge of Windows is minimal. But I was actually comparing ML vs. SL. ML hides a lot of information that the windows in SL displayed. The sidebar offers no orientation anymore and so on and so forth. Little details that add up. I work with thousands of files from different folders. I need my order and my data. ML discloses all that for the sake of a sleeker look. It is unfunctional for me.
If it works for you than lucky you but please do not try to convince me that it works for me as well. It doesn't. It offends me by stripping away important functions that SL had. And the worst thing is that in my believe things will get worse as there obviously is a trend at work. A trend that benefits 90% of the users of Apple computers but unfortunately not me.
As for Windows I still have to explore how well that works.

 

[El Awesome]

At the moment, I have a Mac Pro 2009 2.66 Quad with 16GB RAM and a GTX 570 2560MB. Selling value in Switzlerand roughly 1750$.

I really consider selling this machine and get a X79 setup with a 3930k, some 24+GB RAM, and a SLI setup. The hardware itself will be something like 1200$, then add some waterblocks, and then add another 2 screens, and the whole thing could easily hit 3k$.
And with some OCing I'll get three times the raw speed of my current MP.
And then make a hackintosh out of it.

On the other hand, it's just not a Mac Pro. I'm acutally quite happy with what I have now, it's (acutally more than) fast enough for 90% of the stuff I want to do with it, and it's still a real Mac Pro. It's not just about raw power. I'm really happy having a machine that NEVER (at least until now) crashes. An unreliable hackinotsh would be my biggest nightmare. Pretty much every hackintosh-owner says it's running good, but still.

But then again, I have the time and the money to build me a decent hack.
USB3 is nice, SATA-III is really nice, SLI with 3 screen-surround is awesome... who cares about sleep. I don't set my machines to sleep anyway.

I have had a lot of help with making a concept of my dream-machine in here as well as in Tonymacx86, but I'm still not even sure aobut the parts I'm going to use. I think about building a desk-PC similar the l3p d3sk, as I mentioned, I would have the time.

 

[linuxcooldude]

It would be madness to buy a mac pro for basic tasks. I use my machines for 3d graphics and for rendering. The thing is that a windows box which has hackintosh compatible parts is by far a more sensible, cost effective and powerful solution for me.

The only advantage my mac has over the hackintosh is quietness and knowing that I can do system updates the day they come out if I want to (which generally I don't anyway).

The worrying thing is that both Windows and Apple Eco systems are moving towards walled gardens whereby the only way to install applications is through an app store. The day that happens is the day I opt out and look at Linux.

Another important aspect you left out is support. A hackintosh you must provide all your own support If something goes wrong. One reason why a lot of pro's & businesses want accountability. They don't want to spend time troubleshooting their computer when they should be working on the next project.

Going back to the value aspect. You did not mention if you do this for a living or just for fun. For a lot of Pro's just one project would be enough money to pay for the cost of the machine. Do you make enough money off of your Mac Pro to justify the cost of using such a machine in the first place?

A good quality workstation does not come cheap on any platform

You can't do system updates on the hackentosh?

 

[zephonic]

I will jump ship when Macs no longer meet my criteria. I'm no fan of Windows, but I don't hate it and word is my software works better on it anyway.

 

[DPUser]

At the moment, I have a Mac Pro 2009 2.66 Quad with 16GB RAM and a GTX 570 2560MB. Selling value in Switzlerand roughly 1750$.

You could do the EFI/CPU update to hex 3.33... the processor is $600 in the U.S. inexpensive and simple. My 32 bit Geekbench score went from 8500 to 13800.

 

[handsome pete]

It's not about faith at all. Apple doesn't do "faith."

It's either a yes or no.

Of course. That's why I said you have faith. That has nothing to do with Apple.

You have faith that they will deliver, others don't. I suppose we'll find out sometime next year.

 

[thejadedmonkey]

I went to PC-land after FCPX came out, and I haven't really missed anything.

 

[El Awesome]

You could do the EFI/CPU update to hex 3.33... the processor is $600 in the U.S. inexpensive and simple. My 32 bit Geekbench score went from 8500 to 13800.

I know. That was initially the plan when I bought the machine.

The thing is I don't need more CPU power as much as I would prefer higher r/w speeds on my SSDs and high-end SLI.
Plus if I sell the machine, I wouldn't be able to sell it that much higher than now, mainly because I would have to switch the CPU myself, and potential Mac-buyers wouldn't like machines where the owner had his hands in.

 

[strausd]

I am thinking about building my own windows machine in the next few months when my Mac Pro is on its last leg. Mainly for better professional GPU support.

 

[FluJunkie]

To tell you the truth, apple's current approach of form over function at the expense of cooling (MBPs reaching 90ºC; "questionable" cooling on the new iMac) and the way they may end up implementing thunderbolt, which really isn't of that much use when you have pci-e slots, on that "something really great coming out in 2013", is really putting me off.

To be honest, a lot of this is my problem. 2012 has, even without the Mac Pro delay, not been kind to the notion of OS X as a serious platform. There's been a number of technologies that are either being abandoned, or moving in the wrong direction, and the fact that their redesign - if it happens - needs until 2013 is in itself a pretty bad thing.

 

[Mustard Seed]

What is your solution to the gamma issue? I use x264.

What will I miss?
- Quicktime. QT was a nightmare with the gamma and many codecs were crap, but it had some nice features and was quick to use

 

[fiatlux]

I turbocharged my Mac Pro 1,1 - 16 GB or RAM, 2 * 3.0 GHz quads, and it is still very competent, even compared to today's entry-level Mac Pros (but less so compared to high-end iMacs ).

The lack of EFI64 compatibility is a bit frustrating, even though there ways to make it load Montain Lion. Not running ML means that there fewer graphics card upgrade options as well.

Not being able to afford a new Mac Pro (and certainly not one that would give me a massive boost in perfs), I intend to keep mine as long as possible, and then probably look at a used Mac Pro 4,1/5,1.

An iMac + Thunderbolt storage could well end up being an alternative if I can convince myself in getting a non-user-maintainable machine.

 

[Macinposh]

I turbocharged my Mac Pro 1,1 - 16 GB or RAM, 2 * 3.0 GHz quads, and it is still very competent

Same here.

As a professional photographer I have been working with macs since...well...
stone ages I guess...times when Apples were Quadras and photoshop v.2...

Now 6th year working with my MP1.1 & assorted laptops.
Still rock solid, 0 problems. #knocks wood.

In the next week transformation to CS6 and hasselblad begins, will see
how the rig works after that. If things work fine and apple releases
a good update for Macpro, I have no qualms of staying in OS X.

If apple drops the ball and doesnt release a successor....well...
Then its goodbye and Ciao Windows!

What I have heard, the win 7 is solid, CS 6s license transfer with Cloud is a breeze and things work snappily there.
For me Tools are Tools, if apple dont provide them, someone else will.

Their choice.

 

[blanka]

We have to face it: mini's are (and at least will be) the new workstations. The current one is already damn fast (the 2.6 i7 quad) especially when loaded with a second SSD drive next to the basic 1Tb storage. It might not be the real deal on GPU, but if you can deal with the speed of a Geforce 8800GS/Radeon HD6630M, a card where the Ivy HD roughly compares too, then take the step. We have to move to TB/UTP storage anyway, as the 3.5 inch bay inside a mac is a dying species.
And the mini has very high resale value, so if haswell drops by, you can swap to haswell for 100-150$. That will give you the speed of a HD 5670 / GTX 260 early 2014. You are fully on pro-speed by then again, and you had 1,5 years with awesome Eyecandy from your NEC PA271W/PA301W, Eizo 275 or another fantastic screen that you could buy from the difference of the MacPro and the Mini. The Mini even is a fantastic Windows machine with 30bit colour support on the above displays (not with OSX) and since CS cloud at the moment is better priced than a new full set, you can swap between OS with Adobe anyway.

 

[Gomff]

Another important aspect you left out is support. A hackintosh you must provide all your own support If something goes wrong. One reason why a lot of pro's & businesses want accountability. They don't want to spend time troubleshooting their computer when they should be working on the next project.

Going back to the value aspect. You did not mention if you do this for a living or just for fun. For a lot of Pro's just one project would be enough money to pay for the cost of the machine. Do you make enough money off of your Mac Pro to justify the cost of using such a machine in the first place?

A good quality workstation does not come cheap on any platform

You can't do system updates on the hackentosh?

The support issue is a valid one for some users. Personally I've found Tonymacx86.com a great resource and have had lots of help from there whenever I've come up against problems. Invariably, someone else has had the same problem and fixed it.....and seems happy to help out.

With regards to your other question of whether I'm a "pro" or not, I'd say 15 years in the 3d graphics business and running my own business for ten of those should put me in that bracket. But bumper pay cheques that could buy a fully specced out mac pro (£4000 +) don't come along as often as they used to and when they do, there's usually something else more pressing.....especially given how old and expensive mac pro hardware is these days. Also, I can work in either windows or OS X for my 3d projects so a PC box offers much better value (and Open GL in windows is better as well).

The fact is that my hackintosh is the fastest mac I own at the moment and it's as stable as a real mac. It would be nice to have a shiny new mac pro under my desk but it seems that Apple don't want to give us the hardware choices we're used to having anymore. They want to sell us sealed appliances that cost a fortune to upgrade or repair. I don't mind the appliance model for consumer usage but pros need more control.

----------

If apple drops the ball and doesnt release a successor....well...
Then its goodbye and Ciao Windows!

What I have heard, the win 7 is solid, CS 6s license transfer with Cloud is a breeze and things work snappily there.
For me Tools are Tools, if apple dont provide them, someone else will.

Their choice.

IMHO this is a healthy attitude to have. Its pointless being wed to a specific Eco system, especially out of some misplaced sense of loyalty. Apple has shown no such loyalty to the top end pro users who kept them afloat once upon a time.

At the end of the day, you should use the best tools and work in the best environment for you to get your work done and to produce your best. There shouldn't be any room for sentiment.

 

[Major Reeves]

Pulled the trigger on a custom built workstation...
Still waiting for a few components but I hope to have it running at full steam by wednesday.
As for my current mac pro, it'll be sold but meanwhile it'll be replacing my two servers.

 

[handsome pete]

Pulled the trigger on a custom built workstation...
Still waiting for a few components but I hope to have it running at full steam by wednesday.
As for my current mac pro, it'll be sold but meanwhile it'll be replacing my two servers.

cool, what did you end up configuring?

 

[Lord Blackadder]

IMHO this is a healthy attitude to have. Its pointless being wed to a specific Eco system, especially out of some misplaced sense of loyalty. Apple has shown no such loyalty to the top end pro users who kept them afloat once upon a time.

At the end of the day, you should use the best tools and work in the best environment for you to get your work done and to produce your best. There shouldn't be any room for sentiment.

To put it bluntly, this is the only attitude anyone should have towards any product. The Mac Pro currently meets all my needs and then some. If it did not, I would not buy one. I imagine that all professionals who rely on their computers to make a living think exactly the same way.

Apple has no more or less loyalty towards its customers than any other computer corporation out there. Why expect them to be special in that regard?

With that being said, speculations about the death of the Apple pro community are awfully premature at this point.

 

[Gomff]

Apple has no more or less loyalty towards its customers than any other computer corporation out there. Why expect them to be special in that regard?

Apple make a huge deal about how much they care about the design and manufacturing process, in order to deliver the best experience to their customers, leading to an implicit sense of loyalty and high regard for the Apple consumer (unless you're arguing that they make products for their own satisfaction).

Whilst I personally agree that Apple doesn't really have any more loyalty to their customers than most other corporations, they're quite happy for their customers to believe otherwise.....And indeed they use this to differentiate themselves from the competition.