Anyone buying a Surface here?

[12dylan34]

I considered it, but looked at how thick and clunky the Windows 8 Pro version hardware looked and decided I won't fork over money for something that looks like that. It's definitely more capable than the iPad, but I won't have it.

 

[spinedoc77]

I disagree - the idea of creating apps that are both touchscreen and traditional keyboard and mouse is not something that makes any sense. You type on a flat horizontal plane and it is not natural or even physically easy to shift from typing to screen touches.

You can argue otherwise, but until you can show me how your fingers are able to grow and shrink as they move from horizontal to vertical touch, I won't believe it.

And as far as iOS and your former iPad choking on websites and not running flash, those are not incidents related to problems with iOS or the iPad. They're crappy coding by lazy developers and designers.

The idea that the iPad is a dumb tablet, is your opinion based upon what? That you couldn't run what apps or programs? Please be specific? If you mean it can't run full windows programs, you're again missing the point of what the iPad was designed to do. It's not, nor does it need to be, a full on keyboard driven computer. Apps are supposed to be created to fully use the touch interface and MS is simply trying to buy time with their two OS surface, for developers to re-write MS apps to be touch driven.

Microsoft office works wonderfully as a hybrid using both touch and keyboard/mouse. I'd have my tablet set up like a laptop about a foot away, with my keyboard and mouse connected. I'd use a combination of swipes, zooming in/out, selecting stuff, etc with touch, and be able to type and do fine manipulation with the mouse. I understand you don't want to budge from your work paradigm, but I found it an awesome pleasure to work on reports and a project involving lots of image manipulation and text input using this paradigm. I used both powerpoint and Word this way and it was certainly an enlightening experience, I can't imagine how great this would be on a larger display like some of the all in one Windows 8 desktops with touch screens which are being released.

As far as iOS choking, that was the fault of iOS and the ipads hardware. This is the same old argument, chop off your nose to spite your face. The internet sucks at times, flash slows stuff down sometimes, web developers suck at times and make very inefficient web pages. The answer isn't to block your customers from viewing those websites. All those same sites that choked my ipad ran smooth as butter on my Win tablet, telling me that at least MS understands that you have to work with what you have instead of blocking the inefficient elements out there.

Yes the ipad is a dumb tablet, and I say that fondly. It cannot run any full OS program, and part of that is the inefficiency of having only touch, which reinforces the argument for a hybrid model in which touch is only part of the equation. Once again though I don't understand what you are arguing, you can buy ALL of the features of the ipad on a windows 8 tablet for the same price, form factor and battery life and completely ignore docking/laptop mode, or the windows desktop. You can basically have an ipad if that's what you want. No one said the ipad needed to be a full on keyboard driven device, but there sure as heck are a lot of people who try to use it that way. Once again we come back to choice, options, being able to choose how you want to be productive. If all else is equal then I'll take the hardware and software which will give me that choice.

Your argument might have legs if Windows Pro hardware wasn't the same price, form factor and battery life as the ipad, but it is. There are definitely functions which consumers will want a touch only interface, there are definitely functions where consumers will want a stylus driven interface. There are definitely functions where consumers will want a keyboard/mouse interface. There are definitely functions where consumers will want a hybrid touch/keyboard/mouse interface. How many of those functions does the ipad give you the choice of?

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I considered it, but looked at how thick and clunky the Windows 8 Pro version hardware looked and decided I won't fork over money for something that looks like that. It's definitely more capable than the iPad, but I won't have it.

The windows Pro hardware with the Atom processor is the same thickness, form factor, and at least same battery life if not better than the ipad. The ivy bridge units are slightly thicker, but IMO that's a different crowd than the person who would be buying an ipad.

 

[Marco123]

I sold my ipad 3 last week so that I could purchase a surface.
I am really looking forward to buying one. The metro interface, touchpad and micro USB sealed the deal for me.
I am sick and tired of apples walled garden approach to things, I guess I've grown sick of ios.
I changed my iphone5 to a galaxyS3 this week and am really appreciating the change from apple and the way they do things.

 

[Joesmith13245]

Going to wait for the Surface Pro to come out. Will be able to kill two birds with one stone by using Surface Pro as a fully functional laptop and tablet.

 

[jmgregory1]

Microsoft office works wonderfully as a hybrid using both touch and keyboard/mouse. I'd have my tablet set up like a laptop about a foot away, with my keyboard and mouse connected. I'd use a combination of swipes, zooming in/out, selecting stuff, etc with touch, and be able to type and do fine manipulation with the mouse. I understand you don't want to budge from your work paradigm, but I found it an awesome pleasure to work on reports and a project involving lots of image manipulation and text input using this paradigm. I used both powerpoint and Word this way and it was certainly an enlightening experience, I can't imagine how great this would be on a larger display like some of the all in one Windows 8 desktops with touch screens which are being released.

As far as iOS choking, that was the fault of iOS and the ipads hardware. This is the same old argument, chop off your nose to spite your face. The internet sucks at times, flash slows stuff down sometimes, web developers suck at times and make very inefficient web pages. The answer isn't to block your customers from viewing those websites. All those same sites that choked my ipad ran smooth as butter on my Win tablet, telling me that at least MS understands that you have to work with what you have instead of blocking the inefficient elements out there.

Yes the ipad is a dumb tablet, and I say that fondly. It cannot run any full OS program, and part of that is the inefficiency of having only touch, which reinforces the argument for a hybrid model in which touch is only part of the equation. Once again though I don't understand what you are arguing, you can buy ALL of the features of the ipad on a windows 8 tablet for the same price, form factor and battery life and completely ignore docking/laptop mode, or the windows desktop. You can basically have an ipad if that's what you want. No one said the ipad needed to be a full on keyboard driven device, but there sure as heck are a lot of people who try to use it that way. Once again we come back to choice, options, being able to choose how you want to be productive. If all else is equal then I'll take the hardware and software which will give me that choice.

Your argument might have legs if Windows Pro hardware wasn't the same price, form factor and battery life as the ipad, but it is. There are definitely functions which consumers will want a touch only interface, there are definitely functions where consumers will want a stylus driven interface. There are definitely functions where consumers will want a keyboard/mouse interface. There are definitely functions where consumers will want a hybrid touch/keyboard/mouse interface. How many of those functions does the ipad give you the choice of?

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The windows Pro hardware with the Atom processor is the same thickness, form factor, and at least same battery life if not better than the ipad. The ivy bridge units are slightly thicker, but IMO that's a different crowd than the person who would be buying an ipad.

I am all about doing things differently, unlike you who wants to keep doing things the way you're used to (or so you've said). I don't believe that moving between keyboard and on-screen finger motions is normal or intuitive. There is a reason those AIO touchscreen desktops are not selling well - because it's a crap user interface. It might be different if the screen were at the same plane as your hands, maybe slightly angled up at the back and you manipulated and type directly on the screen, but that's not how it's set up and no one is suggesting such a system.

You say manipulating images in word is easier using your fingers on-screen - did you not do this on your (or your wife's) MacBook Air using the trackpad? I know Windows has significant issues with trackpad operation and that most windows users have issues moving over to Mac OS, in part because they can't get used to using their fingers to do the work of the mouse (even my wife, a Mac user at work still hasn't figured out finger gestures).

So I'll say this yet again, your usage patterns are saying you use the Windows tablet as a laptop.

My blaming poor code writing and the use of flash isn't a cop-out. It's true. I've disabled flash on my laptop because it sucks resources and kills battery life. I'm not one to accept aiming to satisfy the lowest common denominator, which is certainly the trap that MS has operated in and is now stuck in. Calling iOS or even Android or any mobile operating system anything less than a full computer operating system is foolish - at best. It's not what you know, not what you're comfortable with and certainly there are lots of companies who have not ported their desktop applications to mobile OS, but that doesn't mean you have to accept doing things the old way as the only way (you might accept that but others don't and haven't).

I'm not going to support the iPad other than to say all of the things you noted, keyboard, mouse, touchpad, stylus all can and do work with the iPad. These things are, in part, driven by the apps and app developers based upon providing exactly what they want the user to be able to do.

You note that you didn't like not having Office on the iPad, but you could have, if you so chose, to create Word, Excel and Powerpoint documents using Apple's own iWork apps or any of the other apps that allow cross platform document creation.

 

[Liquorpuki]

Planning to buy a 128GB Pro with a Type Cover. Went to a MS store in Glendale yesterday and played around with the RT and the different covers. It's a well-designed tablet. Even my "I'm never going back to Windows" girlfriend was impressed. The type cover is great

I already know what I'd use it for - MS Office, Matlab, third party vendor software for work, Studio One, and Guild Wars 2. Movies and Photos will go on the MicroSD.

Only things I'm worried about is the battery life and how hot it might get with that i5 chip. The ASUS Transformer Book runs an i7 and gets about 5 hours and runs really hot to the touch. We'll see how good MS's engineering is

 

[spinedoc77]

I am all about doing things differently, unlike you who wants to keep doing things the way you're used to (or so you've said). I don't believe that moving between keyboard and on-screen finger motions is normal or intuitive. There is a reason those AIO touchscreen desktops are not selling well - because it's a crap user interface. It might be different if the screen were at the same plane as your hands, maybe slightly angled up at the back and you manipulated and type directly on the screen, but that's not how it's set up and no one is suggesting such a system.

You say manipulating images in word is easier using your fingers on-screen - did you not do this on your (or your wife's) MacBook Air using the trackpad? I know Windows has significant issues with trackpad operation and that most windows users have issues moving over to Mac OS, in part because they can't get used to using their fingers to do the work of the mouse (even my wife, a Mac user at work still hasn't figured out finger gestures).

So I'll say this yet again, your usage patterns are saying you use the Windows tablet as a laptop.

My blaming poor code writing and the use of flash isn't a cop-out. It's true. I've disabled flash on my laptop because it sucks resources and kills battery life. I'm not one to accept aiming to satisfy the lowest common denominator, which is certainly the trap that MS has operated in and is now stuck in. Calling iOS or even Android or any mobile operating system anything less than a full computer operating system is foolish - at best. It's not what you know, not what you're comfortable with and certainly there are lots of companies who have not ported their desktop applications to mobile OS, but that doesn't mean you have to accept doing things the old way as the only way (you might accept that but others don't and haven't).

I'm not going to support the iPad other than to say all of the things you noted, keyboard, mouse, touchpad, stylus all can and do work with the iPad. These things are, in part, driven by the apps and app developers based upon providing exactly what they want the user to be able to do.

You note that you didn't like not having Office on the iPad, but you could have, if you so chose, to create Word, Excel and Powerpoint documents using Apple's own iWork apps or any of the other apps that allow cross platform document creation.

At the end of the day our experiences differ. I don't use my tablet as a laptop in bed, or on the subway, etc, but I do use it as a laptop when, well when I need it as a laptop, I'm not sure what your point is on that. As for using touch and type, that's how I like to work, it increases my workflow and productivity and seems very natural to work this way. I believe we BOTH don't want to veer from our established usage patterns, and that's ok but we are just going to continue to disagree forever. My initial point was that there are consumers who will utilize this format, not you, but these consumers do exist, in what quantity I suppose we will find out going forward.

Manipulating stuff using the trackpad is unintuitive to me, there is a degree of separation between my fingers on the trackpad and just touching the screen. I'm not a big trackpad user anyway, much preferring a mouse, or more recently a touchscreen. I don't doubt you have a valid point, I'm 20+ years using a mouse and could not switch over to a trackpad, but then again I switched from a mouse to a touchscreen almost instantly. When you say my usage patterns say I use my tablet as a laptop, I don't understand the significance of that? It's a tablet when I need it to be a tablet, as I stated before it's nice to have that OPTION, that choice to pop it off and travel with it, use it on the subway, in bed, hanging upside down from the Eiffel tower, or however I want to use it.

As for Flash, that's an old argument I could care less about debating. You have Apples approach which is to just shut out any Flash usage a consumer may have, cutting off its own nose to spite its face. Sure I get the white knight altruistic (yeah right) pinings of Apple to rid the world of the evil Flash, but if it is going to take years to do I'd rather not be forced into that world by having a neutered device. Once again it's choice, a Flash on/off switch, etc. It's a cop out, give me the internet the way it is today, or don't give it to me at all. Once again let me relate to you that on my Windows tablet I have NO issues viewing Flash whatsoever, video, websites, etc, there is some cpu overhead, but it doesn't slow down my web experience. What slowed down my web experience on my ipad 3 was the crappy cpu/gpu they put in there which choked on graphic intensive webpages MUCH more than any Flash site I have ever visited.

iOS for me is not a full OS, it's watered down, you have to compromise a LOT by having only a touch interface and the programs show this compromise, of course that is my use, I need more than a media consumption device. Certainly I can ask the same question of you, why haven't you purchased an ipad? Why haven't you replaced your laptop or desktop with an ipad? Guess what, I have replaced my desktop and my laptop with a windows tablet, there is the difference, it's really quite simple.

I didn't know mouse, stylus or touchpad worked with the ipad. Mouse support you can hack in with a jailbreak, but that's not a valid solution for the average consumer. Stylus support is a complete and utter joke, basically you have a rubber finger shaped as a pen, no digitizer, no pressure sensitivity, no support for handwriting recognition, etc etc. Touchpad I have no idea, but I'm not sure why anyone would use a touchpad with a touchscreen. iWork stinks, but that is my personal opinion and I won't say it's not, but for me it's not very productive to use. The vast majority of programs on the ipad are simply compromises to their desktop versions, you can shoehorn functionality out of them, but it's still just shoehorning at the end of the day.

It looks like a lot of this, as I stated before, is just differences in our usage patterns, although as I stated before I have not seen that you have actually used the ipad to replace anything in your life, am I correct? Additionally the argument continues to crumble apart when windows tablets are the same form factor, price and battery life of the ipads. Would we be having this same argument if Apple released an OSx tablet? Would you be comparing the ipad to OSx and saying how much better the ipad was? Maybe you would, I don't know.

Interesting stuff for sure anyhow, thanks for the continued civil and good discussion.

 

[*Batman*]

I've heard the Surface is touch and go with flash as well. It's not fully compatible and websites have to be on Microsoft's approved list or something like that.

In this case, Ford Motor Co. apparently is still running Windows 98 for there service departments . At least that's what I heard from my non-computer tech Ford service technician.

 

[iHailCarlo]

Hell no! It's a ripoff, will probably either get a newer iPad or a MacBook Air.