Anyone else getting a new Surface Pro (2017)?

[SDColorado]

Well you have a lot going on there. My experience is quite different so not sure if you have a defective product, just not giving yourself time to train to it, or I don't know what the other choice is.

LTE version you should have known wasn't included... that model is coming a few months out. If you really want that, there are other OEM Surface Pro alternatives that have it.

You can run any Windows app, so the App Store is not your only option. If you are looking for an iOS / Android app world to live in, then you won't be happy today with the Surface line. I am not looking for that, but do want to have full function apps.

I have not experienced any of the keyboard issues you are talking about and never had to detach / reattach it. I find it works just as well as my Apple stuff for my use. And when I'm at my desk, I have it dedicated as a note taking tablet and don't use the type cover anyways.

Yes, as I mentioned I knew of the LTE limitation going into it. I didn’t go into that blindly, just missed it more than I thought I would. Obviously I can pick up a mobile hotspot and may, if I stick with it.

Another poster mentioned above the same issue with the keyboard, followed by the same solution of disconnecting and re-attaching it, so I know I am not alone in that. The freezes and random shutdown may warrant an exchange though. Same with the caps lock issue. That was really annoying. I was trying to type a password and the keyboard kept typing caps regardless of whether or not caps lock was on. Same with the numeric. I was trying to type a 1 and it kept typing !.

So perhaps I would be happier with an exchange, because periodically having to re-attach the keyboard isn’t nearly as big a deal as the rest.

Face recognition seemed cool and indoors it is, outside it’s a fail. Is that another issue that should work and isn’t?

I do like some of the Apps on iPad for things like Facebook, Messenger, Spotify, Tapatalk, etc. I also don’t find LastPass works as well on the Tablet. These are minor complaints I suppose, but they do go toward the overall experience.

My battery life is dismal. The supposed 13 they told me in the store, seems to be about half that with the slider positioned about 1/3 from “Best Battery Life.” I am hoping that is at least in past due to Windows 10 doing its version of “indexing” and learning.

I was a bit disappointed with the low battery life and lack of ports in tablet mode with the surface book, but maybe if I do opt to exchange the Surface Pro, I should take one of those home for a test drive first? Maybe.

Oh and Edge drives me bonkers. Even trying to look up something on Surface Book, when clicking on Surface Book the sub-categories don’t stay persistent.

But I did pay for the package with the training, so I can take advantage of that should I choose to stick with it.

But, maybe I should exchange it to at least clear some of the nagging issues and that may lead to a better overall impression.

 

[SDColorado]

It mirrors mine on Android.. Not sure on iOS as I've never tried it on an iPhone.. It should mirror them just fine unless that's an iOS limitation.. Maybe double check all the iOS app and Win 10 program settings?

Sorry I can't be of more help but I've never tried Pushbullet on iOS..

Thanks for the assistance. I need a broader test I think. Mostly it’s been my buddy texting me from his BlackBerry, which only seems to reach my phone and watch (since it mirrors the phone) but never my iPad and MBP like texts from everyone else I know do hahaha.

I will get some other folks to text me that don’t use BlackBerry.

Do I need to add all their contact info under “people?”

 

[raqball]

Yes, as I mentioned I knew of the LTE limitation going into it. I didn’t go into that blindly, just missed it more than I thought I would. Obviously I can pick up a mobile hotspot and may, if I stick with it.

Another poster mentioned above the same issue with the keyboard, followed by the same solution of disconnecting and re-attaching it, so I know I am not alone in that. The freezes and random shutdown may warrant an exchange though. Same with the caps lock issue. That was really annoying. I was trying to type a password and the keyboard kept typing caps regardless of whether or not caps lock was on. Same with the numeric. I was trying to type a 1 and it kept typing !.

So perhaps I would be happier with an exchange, because periodically having to re-attach the keyboard isn’t nearly as big a deal as the rest.

Face recognition seemed cool and indoors it is, outside it’s a fail. Is that another issue that should work and isn’t?

I do like some of the Apps on iPad for things like Facebook, Messenger, Spotify, Tapatalk, etc. I also don’t find LastPass works as well on the Tablet. These are minor complaints I suppose, but they do go toward the overall experience.

My battery life is dismal. The supposed 13 they told me in the store, seems to be about half that with the slider positioned about 1/3 from “Best Battery Life.” I am hoping that is at least in past due to Windows 10 doing its version of “indexing” and learning.

I was a bit disappointed with the low battery life and lack of ports in tablet mode with the surface book, but maybe if I do opt to exchange the Surface Pro, I should take one of those home for a test drive first? Maybe.

Oh and Edge drives me bonkers. Even trying to look up something on Surface Book, when clicking on Surface Book the sub-categories don’t stay persistent.

But I did pay for the package with the training, so I can take advantage of that should I choose to stick with it.

But, maybe I should exchange it to at least clear some of the nagging issues and that may lead to a better overall impression.

My SP4 KB would misbehave every so often but it was not a constant type thing. I am wondering if you have other issues going on that might be hardware or software related...

If I were in your shoes, I do a factory reinstall of Windows... Yes that sucks but it will rule out the software glitch possibility.... If the issues you are seeing persist after that then I'd guess you have a hardware problem as I don't think you should be having the problems that you are...
[doublepost=1498164462][/doublepost]

Thanks for the assistance. I need a broader test I think. Mostly it’s been my buddy texting me from his BlackBerry, which only seems to reach my phone and watch (since it mirrors the phone) but never my iPad and MBP like texts from everyone else I know do hahaha.

I will get some other folks to text me that don’t use BlackBerry.

Do I need to add all their contact info under “people?”

I didn't have to but that might be some type of iOS related issue.. It should just work.. I've used Pushbullet for a few years now (off and on) and have never really had any issues with it...

 

[SDColorado]

My SP4 KB would misbehave every so often but it was not a constant type thing. I am wondering if you have other issues going on that might be hardware or software related...

If I were in your shoes, I do a factory reinstall on Windows... Yes that sucks but it will rule out the software glitch possibility.... If you issues you are seeing persist after that then I'd guess you have a hardware problem as I don't think you should be having the problems that you are...

You know I have been second guessing wether or not I should have gotten the I7 anyway. The guy at the store actually talked me out of it, but I find it a little laggy at times. So I may do an exchange for that.

But that also may just be part of the glitches I am having.

So to ask a noob question from someone who hasn’t used Windows since XP, how would I go about doing a factory reinstall?

It shouldn’t be too painful, I have only had it about 16 hours now and haven’t installed Office yet

 

[SDColorado]

Come to think of it, one of the first issues I had was in set up where neither the physical or keypad would work to go to the NEXT screen after the account setup and I had to shut it down and power it up and restart setup. So something may have gone wrong from that moment on

 

[raqball]

So to ask a noob question from someone who hasn’t used Windows since XP, how would I go about doing a factory reinstall?

It shouldn’t be too painful, I have only had it about 16 hours now and haven’t installed Office yet

You have a few options

One: Settings -- Update and security -- Recovery -- Reset this PC
Two: Download Windows ISO (https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows10) -- burn the ISO to a USB stick -- install Win 10 from that stick

 

[iMi]

There were three things I didn't love - battery life, sharp edges, and pen performance.

Funny. Those three things are exactly what the new Surface addresses. Battery life is vastly improved, edges have been rounded and the new pen delivers a much better performance.

 

[SDColorado]

You have a few options

One: Settings -- Update and security -- Recovery -- Reset this PC
Two: Download Windows ISO (https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows10) -- burn the ISO to a USB stick -- install Win 10 from that stick

About halfway through with the reset. Hopefully a happier Surface and user after hahaha

 

[SteveJUAE]

I purchased a new Surface Pro last night. I really liked the idea of a hybrid laptop/tablet replacement and I thought that I would give it a shot vs one of the new iPads. I have to say I am fairly disappointed with it though and thinking of returning it. First up is no cellular, which I knew going in, but it’s more inconvenient than I thought it would be. I know there are work around solutions, but it’s not ideal. The Microsoft App Store is is a bit sparse and most of the Apps not polished. The keyboard is okay at best, often unresponsive to clicks or typing. Sometimes I have to separate and re-attach it to get it to work right. Even the tablet keyboard acts goofy at times, typing caps despite caps not being on. It shows small case letters, still types caps. Touch screen presses often don’t register or seem off target. Can’t find any way to calibrate. Battery life isn’t even remotely close to claimed. Various freezes, lock ups and at least one random shut down. SMS text is not possible? Split screen is often annoying and uncooperative. Trackpad on the keyboard sucks (I know I can use a mouse, but why?).

I have 30 days so plan to stick with it awhile, but the initial enthusiasm is waning fast. Initial thoughts are that it is a better laptop replacement than the iPad (but it’s not a great laptop) and an inferior tablet device. Jack of all trades, master of none. Will keep plugging away with it and see if my opinion changes with familiarity after more time with it.

Edit: I guess the key to me decided to keep or return my Surface Pro is whether or not I determine that it’s hybrid utility over comes its short comings and issues.

I'm sorry to hear your having some glitches with your new SP but putting that aside I cannot help but think you have bought the wrong device or looking at it from the wrong perspective

The SP is at best only a 30% replacement for an IP simply as something like the SP which is far more capable than most of the Mac laptop range will struggle to give the same simplistic yet fluid user experience of a mobile OS Phone/IP/IPP/Tablet

It's value (if applicable to your workflow) lies in being a very capable laptop in it's own right yet being able to give a far more capable tablet mode or art tool for many.

Of course there are some compromises (some format related to clamshells) but generally the KP and trackpad are not and are best in class that rivals many other laptops although the TP is a little on the small side and not as good as Apple or the SB but subjectively the travel is good and I find it preferable over my rMB

Yes most would agree the MS Store offerings are a bit hit and miss but this is largely irrelevant given you have native access to the largest collection of full OS software

You have to consider the full capability of the SP format over all IP/IPP and many laptops. Sure at the highest end it's not quad core or TB3 or can run 4 monitors but users in this area are small minority of pros and at the lowest end you can’t load loads of trivial apps and flick around for amusement, but most have a smart phone for this.

It masters between the extreams well, where in other systems and clamshells you would need 2 or 3 devices to compete with even more compromises especially in portability let alone price

Depending on your usage the SP may have extra value but as a replacement for just an IPad it's complete over kill your really need to consider as a laptop replacement first and occasional (10/15%) tablet use second IMO

 

[SDColorado]

Depending on your usage the SP may have extra value but as a replacement for just an IPad it's complete over kill your really need to consider as a laptop replacement first and occasional (10/15%) tablet use second IMO

Really the reason I purchased it wasn’t as a 100% iPad replacement, but because I needed something that was more of an honest laptop replacement than the iPad Pro. So I don’t think my thinking was skewed in being interested in trying it. Otherwise, If I find this doesn’t work out, I am looking at an iPad Pro and MB Air or 13” MBP combo.

I was plagued with a lot of issues with the first experience, right from setup. That of course dampened the enthusiasm a fair bit. But people in this thread have been most helpful and I have been taking their advice and trying to make it work, because I still believe that it can.

It isn’t a fantastic laptop, but I do believe it can be an adequate one if the keyboard doesn’t keep acting up and being non-responsive. I also don’t think it is as good a tablet as the iPad Pro, but it does have the benefit of combing the two.

Currently my usage is probably about 60% laptop and 40% tablet, but that may be reversing soon.

I did start to do the reset as I told another user above, but at the end of that I decided to simply try an exchange and swapped both the unit and the keyboard.

I just finished setup and that went without a hitch. Hopefully the other glitches won’t present themselves.

I don’t think I am on the wrong track to try it out. It would solve the two separate device problem more or less, though I will still need to pick up a mobile hotspot.

Will see how this second try goes as I set up the new device

 

[SteveJUAE]

Really the reason I purchased it wasn’t as a 100% iPad replacement, but because I needed something that was more of an honest laptop replacement than the iPad Pro. So I don’t think my thinking was skewed in being interested in trying it. Otherwise, If I find this doesn’t work out, I am looking at an iPad Pro and MB Air or 13” MBP combo.

I was plagued with a lot of issues with the first experience, right from setup. That of course dampened the enthusiasm a fair bit. But people in this thread have been most helpful and I have been taking their advice and trying to make it work, because I still believe that it can.

It isn’t a fantastic laptop, but I do believe it can be an adequate one if the keyboard doesn’t keep acting up and being non-responsive. I also don’t think it is as good a tablet as the iPad Pro, but it does have the benefit of combing the two.

Currently my usage is probably about 60% laptop and 40% tablet, but that may be reversing soon.

I did start to do the reset as I told another user above, but at the end of that I decided to simply try an exchange and swapped both the unit and the keyboard.

I just finished setup and that went without a hitch. Hopefully the other glitches won’t present themselves.

I don’t think I am on the wrong track to try it out. It would solve the two separate device problem more or less, though I will still need to pick up a mobile hotspot.

Will see how this second try goes as I set up the new device

My apologies if I miss understood your original posting, perhaps it contained understandably some frustration due to the issues you were having

Glad you got it exchanged and hopefully all goes well

I would not underestimate the SP just as a laptop, had it just been a clamshell it still is a very respectable spec for a non dGPU plus all the other potential just adds value as it adapts with you

I was a very early adopter of the SP4 and have had no problems other than the infamous sleep issue, now resolved for most.

Like you I initially bought a 2 in 1's to assess if there was any issues with the format and if Win10 was more complimentary to touch screens than Win8

Having bought and owned many Ipad/tablets for my family it was quite clear these were just fads. They mainly ended up as coffee table coasters although at times it's simply nice to have the instantaneous usage offered.

Given most of the Tablet functionality is covered by smartphones other than the IPP that has a very capable pen for drawing but lacks any full OS software support. I concluded that any real and useful aspects of tablets was easily covered by a 2 in 1 and any good smartphone with all the pro's of having a full OS capable laptop.

Although there were critics of the SP4 KB given the more recent trends to equally shallow travel keys, MS got it right IMO and only the TP remains on the smallish side but is otherwise fine. Comments on lappabilty are equally subjective as KB's and often over exaggerated against conventional clamshell that can't even compete against tent or tablet mode

What is notable with 2 in 1's like the SP4, is options. It's surprising overtime how you adapt and automatically pick and choose when to type, touch with pen or finger and now use the dial which I think is a much preferable option over the touchbar. You only notice this when you revert to a normal clamshell non touch and find your stabbing at the screen with no result.

As most of us are not artists the pen may have limited appeal but it still remains a far better tool for editing and touching up photos than any trackpad. Those that do a lot of annotation on documents will also see the pro's to pen, else for occasional use and selecting on screen where it can be fiddle by finger this resolves many issues, once the familiarity is there.

The new SP addresses the original Achilles heel on battery endurance. The new pen is vastly improved plus a 10-15% performance boost along with a more refined case is more than just a spec bump. For critics of the new KB covering you can always use the previous SP4 one.

I hope you end up keeping your SP but at least you are giving it a good try

 

[convergent]

Yes, as I mentioned I knew of the LTE limitation going into it. I didn’t go into that blindly, just missed it more than I thought I would. Obviously I can pick up a mobile hotspot and may, if I stick with it.

Another poster mentioned above the same issue with the keyboard, followed by the same solution of disconnecting and re-attaching it, so I know I am not alone in that. The freezes and random shutdown may warrant an exchange though. Same with the caps lock issue. That was really annoying. I was trying to type a password and the keyboard kept typing caps regardless of whether or not caps lock was on. Same with the numeric. I was trying to type a 1 and it kept typing !.

So perhaps I would be happier with an exchange, because periodically having to re-attach the keyboard isn’t nearly as big a deal as the rest.

Face recognition seemed cool and indoors it is, outside it’s a fail. Is that another issue that should work and isn’t?

I do like some of the Apps on iPad for things like Facebook, Messenger, Spotify, Tapatalk, etc. I also don’t find LastPass works as well on the Tablet. These are minor complaints I suppose, but they do go toward the overall experience.

My battery life is dismal. The supposed 13 they told me in the store, seems to be about half that with the slider positioned about 1/3 from “Best Battery Life.” I am hoping that is at least in past due to Windows 10 doing its version of “indexing” and learning.

I was a bit disappointed with the low battery life and lack of ports in tablet mode with the surface book, but maybe if I do opt to exchange the Surface Pro, I should take one of those home for a test drive first? Maybe.

Oh and Edge drives me bonkers. Even trying to look up something on Surface Book, when clicking on Surface Book the sub-categories don’t stay persistent.

But I did pay for the package with the training, so I can take advantage of that should I choose to stick with it.

But, maybe I should exchange it to at least clear some of the nagging issues and that may lead to a better overall impression.

I think you have a defective SP or keyboard, or both. I've had no freezes or random shutdowns at all, and none of the keyboard issues. I did have a little difficulty with the trackpad the first day, but I think it was just muscle memory training... been fine since.

Regarding battery life, you probably had unrealistic expectations. The quoted battery life is for a specific case, which not average use. I have not really tested it, but I think realistic expectations for the new SP is going to be around 8 hours with average use. You mentioned the 1/3 off from best battery... I have found that I'm good working at the best battery setting... the display is so good that it looks fine at that setting.

Finally, the facial recognition (Windows Hello) I believe is broken completely on the nSP. I can not get it to work more than a couple times after training, and then never again. That is not the experience I had on the SP4, so I believe its broken; and I've heard others report the same thing. Hopefully a software update will fix it.

Funny. Those three things are exactly what the new Surface addresses. Battery life is vastly improved, edges have been rounded and the new pen delivers a much better performance.

Right, that is why I mentioned them... they are the things I disliked on the SP4, and I find all much better on nSP.

 

[iMi]

I think you have a defective SP or keyboard, or both. I've had no freezes or random shutdowns at all, and none of the keyboard issues. I did have a little difficulty with the trackpad the first day, but I think it was just muscle memory training... been fine since.

Regarding battery life, you probably had unrealistic expectations. The quoted battery life is for a specific case, which not average use. I have not really tested it, but I think realistic expectations for the new SP is going to be around 8 hours with average use. You mentioned the 1/3 off from best battery... I have found that I'm good working at the best battery setting... the display is so good that it looks fine at that setting.

Finally, the facial recognition (Windows Hello) I believe is broken completely on the nSP. I can not get it to work more than a couple times after training, and then never again. That is not the experience I had on the SP4, so I believe its broken; and I've heard others report the same thing. Hopefully a software update will fix it.



Right, that is why I mentioned them... they are the things I disliked on the SP4, and I find all much better on nSP.

Yeah, it's refreshing to see a tech company actually address what the customer complained about. Unlike certain other company who responded to complaints about the USB-C port being the only option by addition three more USB-C ports.

Just saying...

 

[SDColorado]

That is a fair assessment. Input began being unresponsive about midway through setup and after having to restart setup, it just went downhill from there. Unresponsive inputs from the tablet keys, having to find different ways and areas to click. It seemed to me that there was maybe a calibration issue? The caps lock issue was really weird and necessitated a reboot. Apps kept having to be shut down, because they became unresponsive ...

But that all appears to be behind me. I did have one random reboot, but it hasn't happened since and I cannot recall what I was doing at the time, using the Facebook Beta App maybe? That would stand to reason. I haven't attached the keyboard yet, because I wanted to make sure the SP was working properly, beforehand.

I am definitely liking it much better now that it is working correctly, though there are still a few things I need to figure out, like why I can't maximize the start tiles, where the dock that was on the left side of the old unit went and why isn't it there on this one, and why does the predictive type not always choose the word I press. I will figure that out and take advantage of the training sessions as I compile more questions.

I understand what you are saying about the iPad. I love the iPad for certain things, mostly media consumption. It makes for a good travel partner with its long battery life. I often pack it on my motorcycle for long weekend trips, because it will last for what I need it for. But I have had to pack my laptop when going on longer trips where I needed a laptop replacement with me and the iPad just wasn't up to the task.

I have tried to use the iPad for business. The lack of lack of touchpad is maddening at times. I do wish the one on the SP was a bit larger, but its there. There is the option to use an external device if I can't live with it.

I also wish there was more than a single USB port and/or that it was USB-c. Yes, I realize that is more ports than the iPad has, but a little limiting for a laptop. I don't think it will be a major roadblock though for the mobile use I intend it for. I guess I will find out more in the next 30 days. It isn't as though it is my only device either. I still have the iMac and MBP.

Primarily I am looking at it to replace the iPad and to eliminate the need to pack the laptop on trips, and I think it is going to work for that. I plan to give it the full 30 days to find out.

Thanks all for being patient with me and sorry about the early frustration. its good to know that the flaky behavior is just not the way they are.

I haven't used Windows since the XP days, but I am willing to give it a go

My apologies if I miss understood your original posting, perhaps it contained understandably some frustration due to the issues you were having

Glad you got it exchanged and hopefully all goes well

I would not underestimate the SP just as a laptop, had it just been a clamshell it still is a very respectable spec for a non dGPU plus all the other potential just adds value as it adapts with you

I was a very early adopter of the SP4 and have had no problems other than the infamous sleep issue, now resolved for most.

Like you I initially bought a 2 in 1's to assess if there was any issues with the format and if Win10 was more complimentary to touch screens than Win8

Having bought and owned many Ipad/tablets for my family it was quite clear these were just fads. They mainly ended up as coffee table coasters although at times it's simply nice to have the instantaneous usage offered.

Given most of the Tablet functionality is covered by smartphones other than the IPP that has a very capable pen for drawing but lacks any full OS software support. I concluded that any real and useful aspects of tablets was easily covered by a 2 in 1 and any good smartphone with all the pro's of having a full OS capable laptop.

Although there were critics of the SP4 KB given the more recent trends to equally shallow travel keys, MS got it right IMO and only the TP remains on the smallish side but is otherwise fine. Comments on lappabilty are equally subjective as KB's and often over exaggerated against conventional clamshell that can't even compete against tent or tablet mode

What is notable with 2 in 1's like the SP4, is options. It's surprising overtime how you adapt and automatically pick and choose when to type, touch with pen or finger and now use the dial which I think is a much preferable option over the touchbar. You only notice this when you revert to a normal clamshell non touch and find your stabbing at the screen with no result.

As most of us are not artists the pen may have limited appeal but it still remains a far better tool for editing and touching up photos than any trackpad. Those that do a lot of annotation on documents will also see the pro's to pen, else for occasional use and selecting on screen where it can be fiddle by finger this resolves many issues, once the familiarity is there.

The new SP addresses the original Achilles heel on battery endurance. The new pen is vastly improved plus a 10-15% performance boost along with a more refined case is more than just a spec bump. For critics of the new KB covering you can always use the previous SP4 one.

I hope you end up keeping your SP but at least you are giving it a good try

 

[raqball]

there are still a few things I need to figure out, like why I can't maximize the start tiles, where the dock that was on the left side of the old unit went and why isn't it there on this one, and why does the predictive type not always choose the word I press. I will figure that out and take advantage of the training sessions as I compile more questions.

Glad to hear the new machine is working better for you..!

What do you mean by the above bolded comments?

 

[SDColorado]

Agreed. I discussed it with them when I went in and while they felt the issues where all likely a result of the unit I was returning, they also felt exchanging the keyboard made sense, rather than risk a return trip.

My expectation for battery life were based largely on the sales associate, who has one for school and claims he "easily gets 12-13 hours a day from his. I am guessing he isn't really using it all that much in the 12-13 hour stretch. I would hate to think how short battery life is for the Surface Book though, if the associate was claiming 4?

Windows Hello seems to be working much better on the new unit as well, resulting in maybe once or twice I have had to use the PIN, but its cloudy and rainy outside today, so I cannot test it in sunlight.

I think you have a defective SP or keyboard, or both. I've had no freezes or random shutdowns at all, and none of the keyboard issues. I did have a little difficulty with the trackpad the first day, but I think it was just muscle memory training... been fine since.

Regarding battery life, you probably had unrealistic expectations. The quoted battery life is for a specific case, which not average use. I have not really tested it, but I think realistic expectations for the new SP is going to be around 8 hours with average use. You mentioned the 1/3 off from best battery... I have found that I'm good working at the best battery setting... the display is so good that it looks fine at that setting.

Finally, the facial recognition (Windows Hello) I believe is broken completely on the nSP. I can not get it to work more than a couple times after training, and then never again. That is not the experience I had on the SP4, so I believe its broken; and I've heard others report the same thing. Hopefully a software update will fix it.

 

[convergent]

Agreed. I discussed it with them when I went in and while they felt the issues where all likely a result of the unit I was returning, they also felt exchanging the keyboard made sense, rather than risk a return trip.

My expectation for battery life were based largely on the sales associate, who has one for school and claims he "easily gets 12-13 hours a day from his. I am guessing he isn't really using it all that much in the 12-13 hour stretch. I would hate to think how short battery life is for the Surface Book though, if the associate was claiming 4?

Windows Hello seems to be working much better on the new unit as well, resulting in maybe once or twice I have had to use the PIN, but its cloudy and rainy outside today, so I cannot test it in sunlight.

I would not put too much faith in what the associate (Microsoft Genius) says. If you look at just the Surface Pro, the SP4 was rated at I think 9 hours and people got 5-6. So it stands to reason that if they say 14, then you'll get about 8. Just saying. One of the reviewers said they were able to get about 12 doing what Microsoft said they did to do their test, but then said the didn't have it on the Best Battery setting.

Regarding the Surface Book, the 4 hour claim (which is probably on the high side) is for just the tablet alone. There is a small battery in the tablet and a much larger battery in the keyboard. This is why at 13.5" its no heavier than the Surface Pro.

 

[SDColorado]

I would not put too much faith in what the associate (Microsoft Genius) says. If you look at just the Surface Pro, the SP4 was rated at I think 9 hours and people got 5-6. So it stands to reason that if they say 14, then you'll get about 8. Just saying. One of the reviewers said they were able to get about 12 doing what Microsoft said they did to do their test, but then said the didn't have it on the Best Battery setting.

Regarding the Surface Book, the 4 hour claim (which is probably on the high side) is for just the tablet alone. There is a small battery in the tablet and a much larger battery in the keyboard. This is why at 13.5" its no heavier than the Surface Pro.

I hear you. I was being optimistic I guess, based on alleged "real world" experience of the associate. But considering the specs of the machine, that kind of battery life would be a feat in all but a "best case" test scenario. Still, the old unit wasn't getting 8 either. I did notice on this second go around, that it updates a ton of apps in the background on initial setup. I didn't find that area on the first go around. Very likely it contributed to the rapid battery drain. I expect it will improve now that its no longer trying to update a dozen or so apps at once. I can live with 9 hours.

I was aware that the battery for the tablet of the Surface Book was separate. I just didn't do a good job of relaying it

Because I primarily want to use tablet mode, need a port to use with my projector and need 8+ hours of battery life, the Surface Pro made more sense for me than the Surface Book, I felt.

So far, other than the one random shut down, the new unit is behaving very well, though I still have not used the keyboard cover. its been a much more enjoyable experience than the first one.

I am going to go ahead and say this though, "I wish the danged thing had a home button"

That and I wish the power button wasn't so easy to accidentally find. Maybe require it to be held down a couple seconds to power on or off? its right where I tend to hold the tablet when I cradle it. A minor annoyance that will just require a little muscle memory to adapt to

 

[convergent]

Glad this one is going better. Hopefully the keyboard will too. I haven't had any real keyboard problems to speak of other than just getting my fingers used to it.

It is running Windows, so there will be a little be some "stuff" that happens from time to time; but I'm happy to deal with that when I get a full laptop replacement in a tablet sized device.

I'm trying now to learn the best setup and orientation for OneNote note taking. Once in a while I'm doing something wrong and causing my wrist to upset things but I think I've got it figured out.

 

[SDColorado]

Glad this one is going better. Hopefully the keyboard will too. I haven't had any real keyboard problems to speak of other than just getting my fingers used to it.

It is running Windows, so there will be a little be some "stuff" that happens from time to time; but I'm happy to deal with that when I get a full laptop replacement in a tablet sized device.

I'm trying now to learn the best setup and orientation for OneNote note taking. Once in a while I'm doing something wrong and causing my wrist to upset things but I think I've got it figured out.

Keyboard seems to be working fine so far. I have some issues with clicks on the touch pad, but I think that is mostly because it simply doesn't behave as I expect it compared to my MPB. I am sure I will adapt over time. None of the previous issues of it becoming non-responsive. But I still tend to think that since touch and the tablet keyboard was also becoming non-responsible, that the issue was with the SP I returned, not the keyboard. Still, they only had gray when in stock when I picked up the first one, and I much prefer the current maroon that came in earlier that day

Let me know what you figure out in your One Note configuration. That is something that I also need to get configured, and I would love any tips or advice.

 

[convergent]

Keyboard seems to be working fine so far. I have some issues with clicks on the touch pad, but I think that is mostly because it simply doesn't behave as I expect it compared to my MPB. I am sure I will adapt over time. None of the previous issues of it becoming non-responsive. But I still tend to think that since touch and the tablet keyboard was also becoming non-responsible, that the issue was with the SP I returned, not the keyboard. Still, they only had gray when in stock when I picked up the first one, and I much prefer the current maroon that came in earlier that day

Let me know what you figure out in your One Note configuration. That is something that I also need to get configured, and I would love any tips or advice.

I had a little learning curve with the touchpad, so that is likely what you are dealing with. I try to just touch and not click, and I think I was in the wrong place on the touchpad for right/left, etc.. I haven't noticed the issue after the first few days.

My use of OneNote is kind of complicated, and OneNote has such a bazillion features that its challenging to figure out.

I use OneDrive and OneDrive for Business (two separate things) on two different Office365 accounts; personal and business. I have OneNote notebooks on both. The OneNote App that comes with Windows 10 is file compatible with OneNote 2016 that comes with MS Office 365; but they are two different apps that have different features. When I'm setup at my desk, I have the SP in tablet (studio mode) mode and dedicated to OneNote App and the MS Email app for my personal email. I also have OneNote 2016 open on my main 4k display. OneDrive syncs the two in real time as I take notes (a few second delay). OneNote App has better pen features, but OneNote 2016 has better organizational features.

So trying to figure out exactly how I work with these both has been my learning curve. Yesterday during the middle of a phone based interview, for some reason OneNote App ended up full screen on my 4k display instead of on the Surface Display. So obviously I couldn't continue taking pen based notes. I tried to get it back where it was supposed to be and couldn't get it to work. So I just switched to pen and paper for the rest of it. I ended up undocking the Surface Pro and closing OneNote App, and then redocked and it worked fine. I'm sure there was a button/icon on there somewhere that would have allowed me to control it but I didn't have time to keep trying to figure it out.

For wrist problems, I think I've figured out that I need to have the pen get close enough to the display for it to acknowledge its penning, before setting my wrist down, or sometimes it responds to the wrist. I was struggling with that a bit until getting my muscle memory synced up with it.

All these little things have a learning curve. Probably the iPad Pro doesn't have as many of these little quirks, but then it also doesn't let you run desktop applications; and it doesn't have the variety of input devices that the SP does. Just trying to head off the, "see, its terrible" posts from folks that prefer an iPad.

 

[SDColorado]

I had a little learning curve with the touchpad, so that is likely what you are dealing with. I try to just touch and not click, and I think I was in the wrong place on the touchpad for right/left, etc.. I haven't noticed the issue after the first few days.

My use of OneNote is kind of complicated, and OneNote has such a bazillion features that its challenging to figure out.

I use OneDrive and OneDrive for Business (two separate things) on two different Office365 accounts; personal and business. I have OneNote notebooks on both. The OneNote App that comes with Windows 10 is file compatible with OneNote 2016 that comes with MS Office 365; but they are two different apps that have different features. When I'm setup at my desk, I have the SP in tablet (studio mode) mode and dedicated to OneNote App and the MS Email app for my personal email. I also have OneNote 2016 open on my main 4k display. OneDrive syncs the two in real time as I take notes (a few second delay). OneNote App has better pen features, but OneNote 2016 has better organizational features.

So trying to figure out exactly how I work with these both has been my learning curve. Yesterday during the middle of a phone based interview, for some reason OneNote App ended up full screen on my 4k display instead of on the Surface Display. So obviously I couldn't continue taking pen based notes. I tried to get it back where it was supposed to be and couldn't get it to work. So I just switched to pen and paper for the rest of it. I ended up undocking the Surface Pro and closing OneNote App, and then redocked and it worked fine. I'm sure there was a button/icon on there somewhere that would have allowed me to control it but I didn't have time to keep trying to figure it out.

For wrist problems, I think I've figured out that I need to have the pen get close enough to the display for it to acknowledge its penning, before setting my wrist down, or sometimes it responds to the wrist. I was struggling with that a bit until getting my muscle memory synced up with it.

All these little things have a learning curve. Probably the iPad Pro doesn't have as many of these little quirks, but then it also doesn't let you run desktop applications; and it doesn't have the variety of input devices that the SP does. Just trying to head off the, "see, its terrible" posts from folks that prefer an iPad.

It’s interesting that you mention both OneNote and OneNote 2016, because I saw them both and wondered what the difference was and why you would choose one over the other. I will need to experiment and go through a similar learning curve by the sound of it, because I have a feeling OneNote and I will be doing a lot of bonding in the future.

I am getting along with the touchpad a little better after changing the sensitivity setting to low. I don’t get near as many accidental inputs. The rest is probably going to take a little training of muscle memory.

Sounds like the same is going to be true of Pen use. I can appreciate what you are saying about there probably being a simple solution to the issue that you were having. But until it happens, you never know to look for the solution. On the phone and during an interview isn’t the time to do it.

Unfortunately I am having another issue with mine. I was really beginning to dig it after the exchange, when suddenly the bottom 1/3 of the display became wavy and flickering. I am in the process of trying a reset, but so far it isn’t solving it.

I may be going back for exchange #2?

 

[SDColorado]

Well brought in #2 for exchange. They took one look and said "OK, lets get you a new one."

The issue began when I was using the twitter app and at first I thought it was just the app glitching, but it wasn't. The bottom one third was weird and flickering even after I shut the app down. I tried to reboot and it didn't help. I tried shutting it down and letting it cool. That didn't do any good either. I next tried to do a reset, but it just got stuck in a loop of doing this, with a an occasional progress circle, followed by a flash of a blue screen and back to this. After a few hours in this loop while I did other stuff around the house, I decided it wasn't going to heal itself



NOTE: Those aren't reflections of the Windows logo. It was mirroring them and they were becoming more fragmented as they went down.


I am not going to dump on Microsoft for the problems. I know there are people on here who have had to exchange 2, 3, 4 or more Apple products on here too and it drives me nuts when people dump on Apple for it, as if they hand inspect every unit before they ship or something.

I don't think Apple is any better than Microosoft in this regard, nor do I think they are any worse than Microsoft either.

The truth is neither company makes these things themselves, they probably have more components in common, than not. Common Manufacturers too. MacBook Pro for example is manufactured by Foxconn and Pegatron. The Microsoft Surface Pro is manufactured by Pegatron. Perhaps it is Pegatron who is the common link to some unfortunate failures and issues? Who knows, not me. Mass manufacturing in the global market. It comes with its problems that are beyond the control of either company.

Hoping 3rd time is a charm, because after setting it up #2 on Thursday night and spending a nice day with it Friday, we were starting to become friends

 

[SteveJUAE]

Well brought in #2 for exchange. They took one look and said "OK, lets get you a new one."

The issue began when I was using the twitter app and at first I thought it was just the app glitching, but it wasn't. The bottom one third was weird and flickering even after I shut the app down. I tried to reboot and it didn't help. I tried shutting it down and letting it cool. That didn't do any good either. I next tried to do a reset, but it just got stuck in a loop of doing this, with a an occasional progress circle, followed by a flash of a blue screen and back to this. After a few hours in this loop while I did other stuff around the house, I decided it wasn't going to heal itself


NOTE: Those aren't reflections of the Windows logo. It was mirroring them and they were becoming more fragmented as they went down.


I am not going to dump on Microsoft for the problems. I know there are people on here who have had to exchange 2, 3, 4 or more Apple products on here too and it drives me nuts when people dump on Apple for it, as if they hand inspect every unit before they ship or something.

I don't think Apple is any better than Microosoft in this regard, nor do I think they are any worse than Microsoft either.

The truth is neither company makes these things themselves, they probably have more components in common, than not. Common Manufacturers too. MacBook Pro for example is manufactured by Foxconn and Pegatron. The Microsoft Surface Pro is manufactured by Pegatron. Perhaps it is Pegatron who is the common link to some unfortunate failures and issues? Who knows, not me. Mass manufacturing in the global market. It comes with its problems that are beyond the control of either company.

Hoping 3rd time is a charm, because after setting it up #2 on Thursday night and spending a nice day with it Friday, we were starting to become friends

Yep crap happens to all OEM's although generally or historically maybe Apple did fair better in the 1st year than most other premium laptops, but largely irrelevant under full warranty IMO and not significantly better in 2nd or 3rd years

However I must say I have been very lucky over the years

My sister went shopping for a MacBook yesterday and came back with a Surface Laptop instead so fingers cross she has the same luck as me with this 1st gen

 

[SDColorado]

Yep crap happens to all OEM's although generally or historically maybe Apple did fair better in the 1st year than most other premium laptops, but largely irrelevant under full warranty IMO and not significantly better in 2nd or 3rd years

However I must say I have been very lucky over the years

My sister went shopping for a MacBook yesterday and came back with a Surface Laptop instead so fingers cross she has the same luck as me with this 1st gen

Historically I have fared well with Apple over the years, including the new MBP, which I know an unusually high number of people seem to have had trouble with. Mine has been perfect out of the box.

I think I have had to exchange 1 MacBook Air and a couple of iPods through their generations, but between my wife and I we have had countless numbers of iPods, iPhones, iPads, MacBook Pros, iMac, Mac Pro's, Apple Watches, Apple TV's, etc. She had a 40GB Gen 3 iPod that just finally died this year. My 160GB iPod Classic is still kicking, knock on wood

The last device I had this many returns with within such a short span was the GoPro Hero 4, the last laptop I had so much trouble with was HP back in the mid 2000's. I guess I was probably due to run into a trouble streak.

On the bright side I am getting very efficient with the setup procedure with all my apps and accounts. It takes me less time every setup!

Hopefully your sister fairs well with the Surface Laptop. At least in general, it seems that electronics either fail early or last years. I am keeping my fingers crossed for this one falling into the later category.