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Anyone else notice Apple's decline in perfectionism?
- Thread starter Apple!Freak
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I glanced through this thread and decided to throw my short but noteworthy experience with Apple. I just bought my first mac last month (a 1.33 ibook) and overall am very happy. The comment about paint coming off of the keys is worrysome, but I do have the Applecare and i'm sure the keyboard is replaceable. My major 'beef' with Apple is the whole concept of white devices and the materials they use. I have a 4g ipod (b&w) and while the stainless steel or whatever the rear material is sure looks pretty, it scratches worse than a club dj. The same goes for my iBook - i've used it maybe 4 times when it wasn't on my desk, and I have a nice smudge/scratch on the cover and the bottom isn't so great either. In terms of quality, overall I think it's good. The only hardware problem I have with my ibook is that the right shift key doesn't always respond so well. I also don't like the slot loading drive - I feel like it scratches my discs everytime I put them in and then it sounds as if it's about to take off when reading them. Since i'm not a long time mac user, I love the software. OS X doesn't hold a candle to windows (as far as I'm concerned) although it does have it's problems. I don't think it's as easy of a switch as they make it out to be and I'm a heavy computer user. I find their to be so many little things that make OS X much better than Windows - from the inclusion of pretty good software to simple featues (built in disk mounting, dashboard, preview...). I was also suckered into buying a 'Mighty' mouse. I love the scroll ball idea because it's just so much fun to play wit, while the side buttons for expose are great. But the key selling point of two buttons is less than ideal. I find the right button a little touchy - you have to click in just the right spot to get it. I also hate how lightweight it is, but I'm used to my Logitech mx700. And the other huge problem with the mouse is the cable is ridiculously short - it's just long enough to use with my ibook. Wonder how the powermac users get by...
I'm generally pleased with Apple's quality at this point. I've had no major issues with their equipment other than cosmetic and minor difficulties. I would definetly buy another Apple - I just wish I had held off a month or two and bought one of the iMacs. I think they are a great deal.
I'm generally pleased with Apple's quality at this point. I've had no major issues with their equipment other than cosmetic and minor difficulties. I would definetly buy another Apple - I just wish I had held off a month or two and bought one of the iMacs. I think they are a great deal.
johantheolive said:
I was thinking the same thing. My mom calls me on ocassion to complain about the lack of cable length with her Mighty Mouse because I was the one who suggested she buy it. And she has an iBook. If she can hardly swing the mouse around the other side of her iBook, I don't see how PowerMac users can use the Mighty Mouse with the actual PM under their desk or something.
Apple can start 'cutting corners' now simply because it can. People will still flock to the next iPod/iBook/PB (you name it) namely the iPod because of it's popularity and the fact that "Apple" and "high quality" are not as synonymous to new users as they are to old loyal customers.
in the 70s, 80s, and perhaps early 90s, people kept their computers and gadgets for five years and the technology served them
but the pace of technology has really heated up and every 3-6 months a noticeably superior model is on the horizon making any computer or gadget totally obsolete in less than two years
many times the standard of the hardware changes (serial to usb, usb to usb 2.0, firewire to firewire 800), but the newest and best software is made to work well on only the newest machines
with that in mind, there really no incentive to make things last since most people are more likely to buy a new machine before somthing cheaply made breaks down
but the pace of technology has really heated up and every 3-6 months a noticeably superior model is on the horizon making any computer or gadget totally obsolete in less than two years
many times the standard of the hardware changes (serial to usb, usb to usb 2.0, firewire to firewire 800), but the newest and best software is made to work well on only the newest machines
with that in mind, there really no incentive to make things last since most people are more likely to buy a new machine before somthing cheaply made breaks down
generik said:
Hate to a nitpicker/ prick but its AAPL, especially with spelling because I suck at it.
Since I don't own a Mac but I have had 3 iPods I must say that the packaging of the newer iPods is disappointing. I miss the pre- G2 mini days
. My first gen mini (if you would call them generations) had great packaging. Then the 30gig photo was somewhat less of a thrill. Then the nano I was disappointed with packaging. I basically ruined the box taking it out for the first time because it was to thin.
generik said:
I like AAPL personally. I've made $20/share since I bought the stock in April. Not to bad, eh?
Apple's quality ebbs and flows, it has a lot to do with the culture at the company, as much as where the kit is built.
I used to support a substantial Mac estate at a firm in London, with well over 2000 machines. We took a big order (150+ machines) of what was then the new model - brand new Quadra 610's. They were junk - bits falling off, dead RAM, dodgy boards, cracked and chipped casings. Now people comment that quality is declining. I think this first example was indicative of the initial commoditisation of the brand, Jobs had been given the boot, the CEO (John Sculley, followed by Gil Amelio) wasn't passionate about the brand, shareholder value was king.
Now, Apple are a victim of their own success: the manufacturing has moved to China in a big way, perhaps more in the last two years or so than at any other time in their history. iPod demand, in particular, represents unprecedented shipping volumes and insatiable demand, and Apple is having to move to a huge mass production model in a country who's business model has traditionally been 'pile 'em high, flog them cheap'.
I believe that these things are cyclical and quality will improve. It's not great by Apple's very high standards, but by the rest of the industry's, the materials are above average, the defect rate is below average, and the industrial design and systems integration are still the benchmark.
I used to support a substantial Mac estate at a firm in London, with well over 2000 machines. We took a big order (150+ machines) of what was then the new model - brand new Quadra 610's. They were junk - bits falling off, dead RAM, dodgy boards, cracked and chipped casings. Now people comment that quality is declining. I think this first example was indicative of the initial commoditisation of the brand, Jobs had been given the boot, the CEO (John Sculley, followed by Gil Amelio) wasn't passionate about the brand, shareholder value was king.
Now, Apple are a victim of their own success: the manufacturing has moved to China in a big way, perhaps more in the last two years or so than at any other time in their history. iPod demand, in particular, represents unprecedented shipping volumes and insatiable demand, and Apple is having to move to a huge mass production model in a country who's business model has traditionally been 'pile 'em high, flog them cheap'.
I believe that these things are cyclical and quality will improve. It's not great by Apple's very high standards, but by the rest of the industry's, the materials are above average, the defect rate is below average, and the industrial design and systems integration are still the benchmark.
Apple!Freak said:
I have a PM with a mighty mouse and it works fine - I just use the USB port built into the keyboard.
I used to have a Microsoft Intellimouse and the cable seemed to be about 5m long and constantly got in the way. I actually quite like the smaller cable as it keeps my desk tidy.
Gotta agree on this one.
My iBook's screen surrounding looks like its been put together by 12 year olds.
My iBook's screen surrounding looks like its been put together by 12 year olds.
Sam0r said:
Probably wouldn't be too far from the truth. A 12 year old kid in China who doesn't have access education and has to work in piss poor conditions just to get by. Who doesn't love outsourcing?
It looks like a cheese grater, but that's beside the point. Appearance has nothing to do with performance.lilstewart92 said:
Before I got a Mac, I got the impression that Apple was about quality based on what Mac users keep saying. Now I know that's not the case. Apple is no better than any other company. If there's a decline in perfectionism, it started long before I got a Mac.
Why does my Power Mac G5, which cost three times more than my PC, come with a power supply that beeps and chirps? A power supply shouldn't be making those kinds of noises.
Apple wouldn't even acknowledge the problem until recently: http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=86523
The recommendations in that article are useless. They don't really have a solution.
Another well-known problem is the single 1.8 GHz model with the 600 MHz FSB consistently stops responding in Tiger: http://www.g5freeze.com/
Apple wouldn't acknowledge the problem until five months after Tiger was released: http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=302212
The recommendations in that article are useless as well. They still don't have a solution. What if I had gotten that model instead?
I guess expecting your computer to function properly is expecting too much from Apple. :rollnose:
How to tell China . . .
The first two characters in Apple serial numbers indicate the plant. For example . . .
4H: China
CK: Cork, Ireland
FC: Fountain, Colorado
G8: USA
RM: Remanufactured
RN: Mexico
SG: Singapore
QT: Quanta, Taiwan
UV: Taiwan
W8: Shanghai, China
XB: Elk Grove/Sacramento, California
YM: Hon Hai, China
My March 2001 Digital Audio came out of Sacramento, and it is an outstanding piece of gear -- except for all the blown hard drives, as it originally had an IBM 75GXP, followed by two Maxtors, all three of which turned out to be the subject of class action lawsuits, and except for the el cheapo made-in-China main cooling fan. I finally took matters into my own hands and installed a Western Digital, which continues to work fine, and installed a new cooling fan (forgot to check country of origin) that blows twice as much air at half the noise.
My TiBook, now in the process of being traded in for a new Powerbook, came from Taiwan.
Maybe now we can all get an idea of where our stuff is actually coming from.
As for quality, Apple goes in cycles. My own experience . . . Powerbook 145, out-of-warranty recall for installation of a shim to take care of a nasty pulsating thing the LCD suddenly started doing (I only had the one year warranty on that), which Apple took care of via Airborne Express at their expense in three days flat; Powerbook 190, no trouble but I only had it a year (I had the 145 for five years), and the Titanium Powerbook, whose deeply questionable case design led directly, in my view, to two warranty screen replacements, one for white spots and the other for a mass rash of stuck pixels as well as white spots. Looking at the current AluBook, it is immediately obvious how much sturdier the case is.
On the software front, I think Apple has had phases. System 6 was pretty good, System 7 was great, OS 7.5.x a disaster and 7.6 a hastily rushed patch job, 8.0 and 8.1 OK, 8.5 OK but not worth the upgrade they charged, 9.0 needed three patches to get it close to right (9.2.2). I didn't touch X until Jaguar came out, and really, it was very good right off the bat. But I think both Panther and Tiger were rushed, although Panther came along, and Tiger is now coming along, with the patches.
The first two characters in Apple serial numbers indicate the plant. For example . . .
4H: China
CK: Cork, Ireland
FC: Fountain, Colorado
G8: USA
RM: Remanufactured
RN: Mexico
SG: Singapore
QT: Quanta, Taiwan
UV: Taiwan
W8: Shanghai, China
XB: Elk Grove/Sacramento, California
YM: Hon Hai, China
My March 2001 Digital Audio came out of Sacramento, and it is an outstanding piece of gear -- except for all the blown hard drives, as it originally had an IBM 75GXP, followed by two Maxtors, all three of which turned out to be the subject of class action lawsuits, and except for the el cheapo made-in-China main cooling fan. I finally took matters into my own hands and installed a Western Digital, which continues to work fine, and installed a new cooling fan (forgot to check country of origin) that blows twice as much air at half the noise.
My TiBook, now in the process of being traded in for a new Powerbook, came from Taiwan.
Maybe now we can all get an idea of where our stuff is actually coming from.
As for quality, Apple goes in cycles. My own experience . . . Powerbook 145, out-of-warranty recall for installation of a shim to take care of a nasty pulsating thing the LCD suddenly started doing (I only had the one year warranty on that), which Apple took care of via Airborne Express at their expense in three days flat; Powerbook 190, no trouble but I only had it a year (I had the 145 for five years), and the Titanium Powerbook, whose deeply questionable case design led directly, in my view, to two warranty screen replacements, one for white spots and the other for a mass rash of stuck pixels as well as white spots. Looking at the current AluBook, it is immediately obvious how much sturdier the case is.
On the software front, I think Apple has had phases. System 6 was pretty good, System 7 was great, OS 7.5.x a disaster and 7.6 a hastily rushed patch job, 8.0 and 8.1 OK, 8.5 OK but not worth the upgrade they charged, 9.0 needed three patches to get it close to right (9.2.2). I didn't touch X until Jaguar came out, and really, it was very good right off the bat. But I think both Panther and Tiger were rushed, although Panther came along, and Tiger is now coming along, with the patches.
blaskillet4 said:
Thank you! This same thing has happened with both of my iPods.
And, no, I didn't "abuse" the cable. I simply had the temerity to unplug it from the wall socket component so I could connect the iPod with my iBook for synchronization.