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Anyone Else Waiting For QC to Improve? whats the deal?

Ibjr said:
People complaining will always be over represented in posts but that by itself isn't enough to prove there are not QC issues.
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That's correct, but it's nowhere near enough to prove there are QC issues as well.

I wish people would stop coming to hard and fast conclusions based on "reports" they see on the internet. It is my belief that this type of thinking lacks logic and that these folks don't really know what they're talking about.
 
ghettochild said:
Apple's QC has been @#$% for a long time. Remember the white spots on the display of the first AL PBs? Or the horizontal lines on the display of the last 15" PB revision?

Apple doesn't care for QC. Why would they? Their laptop sales are through the roof, as NPD just reported.
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Well obviously someone didn't read this thread before posting.
 
aquajet said:
That's correct, but it's nowhere near enough to prove there are QC issues as well.

I wish people would stop coming to hard and fast conclusions based on "reports" they see on the internet. It is my belief that this type of thinking lacks logic and that these folks don't really know what they're talking about.
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New people who read the trolling posts may have a difficult time discerning fact from fiction. They come in two main flavors.

Type 1 - "My disastrous experience". Usually a newbie and it will start out with some problem, which often makes little sense. Readers will respond, and then there is another problem. Then there is another issue. Eventually it ends up with a scathing dialog about the lousy service they have received from Apple Care.

Type 2 - "Global Condemnation". These are the posts like "Apple is abandoning its computer customers", "Apple's QC is terrible", "Apple do not get it", etc. They seldom have any purpose other than to flame Apple. If they contain any fact, it is seldom close to substantiating the original claim. The ones I find most amusing are when the OP will quote from previous threads and you go find them, and he/she was the originator. In essence, they are using themselves as the source. Somewhat clever, but rather obvious.

It is my belief that a large percentage of these bashing posts are intended to spread disinformation and propaganda. Otherwise, why do it? They are also too similar in context and structure. In fact, I suspect that some are written by the same person, using multiple names. The writing styles are identical.
 
SMM said:
It is my belief that a large percentage of these bashing posts are intended to spread disinformation and propaganda. Otherwise, why do it? They are also too similar in context and structure. In fact, I suspect that some are written by the same person, using multiple names. The writing styles are identical.
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Ya. I am part of a massive anti-apple conspiracy that posts bashing Apple. Your post impugns my motives, do you think i've been a member of Macrumors since 2002 just to attack Apple? Your thinking would be funny if it wasn't so dangerous.
 
Ibjr said:
Ya. I am part of a massive anti-apple conspiracy that posts bashing Apple. Your post impugns my motives, do you think i've been a member of Macrumors since 2002 just to attack Apple? Your thinking would be funny if it wasn't so dangerous.
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Well it certainly seems that way from your posts. You cite anecdotal evidence and try to use only that to backup "Apple QC is terrible" while others post customer satisfaction surveys (obviously you aren't satisfied with terrible QC) and insight like the fact that Mac users tend to be much, much more picky about the quality of their machines. For example, you're got people complaining about squeaky space bars or new batteries coming from the factory with 98-99% battery health being "unacceptable." Your average consumer simply doesn't pay attention to stuff like this.
 
Sbrocket said:
Well it certainly seems that way from your posts. You cite anecdotal evidence and try to use only that to backup "Apple QC is terrible" while others post customer satisfaction surveys (obviously you aren't satisfied with terrible QC) and insight like the fact that Mac users tend to be much, much more picky about the quality of their machines. For example, you're got people complaining about squeaky space bars or new batteries coming from the factory with 98-99% battery health being "unacceptable." Your average consumer simply doesn't pay attention to stuff like this.
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I am sorry. I work in a business that uses state-wide and national surveys all the time. I am not going to accept a self-selected PC World survey.

I had a stuck "G" key, and instead of complaining i kept hitting it until whatever was causing the delay resolved itself. I am not complaining about that, I am complaining about logics boards, discoloration, the moo and whine sound, G4 logic boards (they only admitted the earlier ones), the battery issue (one of our macbooks was one of the early cases Apple had sent back).

I love my Apple and recommend it but I won't delude myself into believing they are more reliable than they are or that the Intel switch hasn't affected QC.
 
Ibjr said:
Ya. I am part of a massive anti-apple conspiracy that posts bashing Apple. Your post impugns my motives, do you think i've been a member of Macrumors since 2002 just to attack Apple? Your thinking would be funny if it wasn't so dangerous.
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You should have noted that I was responding to aquajet, and a general comment he made concerning "...hard and fast conclusions based on "reports" they see on the internet." It was not specifically directed at you, or I would have so addressed it.

If you are attempting to deny the existence of an anti-Apple campaign, save your breath. It is a proven fact that it exists. They were caught red-handed. There is no debate and it is not opinion.

To what extent it exists on this board is a matter of opinion. But, there is no question that a large number of anti-Apple posts are made here. Furthermore, a significant number of them follow a predictable style and pattern. So, the question then goes to motive. Why is the person bashing, rather than seeking help, or guidance? Well, there are many possible reason, which have nothing to do with a propaganda/disinformation campaign. But, in my opinion, there are many which appear to be exactly that. You may disagree, as is your right. In fact, it seems like most folk here pretty much ignore this.

Normally I would ignore this too. But, as an IT Manager, I have been forced to deal with the MS monopoly. Software licensing is completely out of hand. It is imperative to have a viable competitor. Apple is positioning itself to be the alternative the industry has needed. Smear campaigning is intended to disrupt Apple's momentum. I take exception to that.
 
SMM said:
You should have noted that I was responding to aquajet, and a general comment he made concerning "...hard and fast conclusions based on "reports" they see on the internet." It was not specifically directed at you, or I would have so addressed it.

If you are attempting to deny the existence of an anti-Apple campaign, save your breath. It is a proven fact that it exists. They were caught red-handed. There is no debate and it is not opinion.

To what extent it exists on this board is a matter of opinion. But, there is no question that a large number of anti-Apple posts are made here. Furthermore, a significant number of them follow a predictable style and pattern. So, the question then goes to motive. Why is the person bashing, rather than seeking help, or guidance? Well, there are many possible reason, which have nothing to do with a propaganda/disinformation campaign. But, in my opinion, there are many which appear to be exactly that. You may disagree, as is your right. In fact, it seems like most folk here pretty much ignore this.

Normally I would ignore this too. But, as an IT Manager, I have been forced to deal with the MS monopoly. Software licensing is completely out of hand. It is imperative to have a viable competitor. Apple is positioning itself to be the alternative the industry has needed. Smear campaigning is intended to disrupt Apple's momentum. I take exception to that.
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I think it's ludicrous to suggest that a large portion of people complaining over issues they have with their computers are, in fact, just here to bash Apple. I complain a lot on this board as a way to vent my immense frustration with Apple's poor quality control. It allows me to stay an Apple customer because I can share that frustration with others who have either had a similar experience, or who are sympathetic to the experience. While I complain here I also complain to Apple and keep wasting a lot of my time talking to them, visiting the genius bar, reinstalling my data after replacements and so forth.

Apple is needed in the industry, BUT only as long as it provides a good alternative. If Apple product quality continue to drop then it will not remain a good alternative. It is my firm opinion that one of the reasons Apple will be ok is that so many of us won't accept anything less than first-rate quality from them and will continue to return items that do not meet our standards until Apple gets the message. Just like criticising George Bush for his complete and utter incompetence is an expression of patriotism, so is criticising Apple for its poor quality an expression of concern and loyalty. If it were any other computer company, I'd just walk away and go to a better competitor. With Apple I have developed a relationship over the years, one that I cannot easily walk away from.

In any case, I think you're wrong about there some kind of conspiracy here. People bash Apple as a way to vent when Apple is wasting their time and hard-earned money. And so they should.
 
SMM said:
You should have noted that I was responding to aquajet, and a general comment he made concerning "...hard and fast conclusions based on "reports" they see on the internet." It was not specifically directed at you, or I would have so addressed it.

.... Apple is positioning itself to be the alternative the industry has needed. Smear campaigning is intended to disrupt Apple's momentum. I take exception to that.
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I currently work at a nationally know ad agency/PR firm so I know how stories, reports, awards, and polls often come about. None of our accounts are really in the tech industry so we don't do media tracking there but a non-rigorous examinations indicates yes, a ridiculous number of crappy anti-iPhone stories have been pitched (probably from rivals) and used but an anti-mac conspiracy? Come on. That is only proven in your mind.
 
I am sorry. I work in a business that uses state-wide and national surveys all the time. I am not going to accept a self-selected PC World survey.
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Less "well I know because I have such-and-such job" and more actual evidence. Until you can show me something contrary to this survey you try to debunk, its the best source available that I see. Anecdotal evidence from what is largely a customer support forum is definitely not more reliable.
 
Sbrocket said:
Less "well I know because I have such-and-such job"
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I am sorry, I didn't know having a job was such a sore spot.

Until you can show me something contrary to this survey you try to debunk, its the best source available that I see. Anecdotal evidence from what is largely a customer support forum is definitely not more reliable.
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I am not trying to prove there is a QC problem, i am trying to cast doubt on the idea that there is none. People on this forum are unable to accept that there is a happy medium.

Personally, I think there is a problem and will encourage everyone to buy a mac with applecare but if they are using it to produce work product they either need a backup computer or buy a thinkpad.
 
You know perfectly well what I was referring to with my first comment so keep your ad hominem attacks to yourself. Anyone on a forum can say something to the effect of "well I have such-and-such job, therefore I know more about this subject than you and you should listen to me." The fact is its as easy for someone to type this other whether its a lie or not. That's why anecdotal evidence is not reliable, but that's all you can give me. I'm perfectly able to accept the Apple has flaws IF you can give me a good reason to believe that. All you can offer right now is anecdotes and an abundance of trouble posts on a customer support forum, and that's not exactly convincing. You've given no reason to believe that Apple's quality control is lacking when compared to other manufacturers.
 
zioxide said:
You do realize that 99% of the machines never have problems, right? If you go by the forums, you're going to get a skewed perspective because people only come here and post if they have problems. Nobody here ever posts that they got a perfect computer.
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I don't know what kind of statistics you're running..

But with common sense, if there's alot and i mean more than a handful of people who post about their mbp problems don't you think there's also A LOT of minor defected machines being sold

I mean if the Quality Control was excellent, then there wouldn't be much threads about defected machines.
 
QC has always been this bad, just less vocalized in the PowerPC days.
However, it looks like apple's buckling down because of the constant whines from people with orange macbooks and whatnot. Reading that article (front page i think) about the iPhone, and the fact that they actually went with optical glass rather than plastic, and the fact that they're taking extra time makes me believe they're going slow down and take their time in manufacturing and engineering.
 
Sbrocket said:
You know perfectly well what I was referring to with my first comment so keep your ad hominem attacks to yourself. Anyone on a forum can say something to the effect of "well I have such-and-such job, therefore I know more about this subject than you and you should listen to me." The fact is its as easy for someone to type this other whether its a lie or not. That's why anecdotal evidence is not reliable, but that's all you can give me. I'm perfectly able to accept the Apple has flaws IF you can give me a good reason to believe that. All you can offer right now is anecdotes and an abundance of trouble posts on a customer support forum, and that's not exactly convincing. You've given no reason to believe that Apple's quality control is lacking when compared to other manufacturers.
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I am sorry. I work with surveys and polls for a living and so i won't blind trust PC World, especially given their lack of details about the setup. If you find that arrogant, okay, but I just explained why I personally wouldn't accept that as fact. I never implied I should be trusted because of it. You need to work on your inferences.

I am saying that people who do support for school labs and companies that run macs would know better than home users. I do know three macbooks bought in different months all needing at least one repairs for noncosmetic reasons in under a year isn't a good sign. I know similarly bad situation at my all-mac (except for accounting) employer.

People either bought a machine and it worked or didn't work. Those of us who were unfortunate enough to fall into the latter category often ended up with a replacement or repaired machine. These either worked or didn't work. Those of us who ended up in the second category again began to wonder what was going on. I think it is valid. 3 machines, 1 had a non noncosmetic repair and the other two have been replaced, both that have been replaced had even more issues, and you wonder why we are annoyed at people who got lucky the first time and pretend Apple's QA is fantastic?
 
PDE said:
I think it's ludicrous to suggest that a large portion of people complaining over issues they have with their computers are, in fact, just here to bash Apple. I complain a lot on this board as a way to vent my immense frustration with Apple's poor quality control. It allows me to stay an Apple customer because I can share that frustration with others who have either had a similar experience, or who are sympathetic to the experience. While I complain here I also complain to Apple and keep wasting a lot of my time talking to them, visiting the genius bar, reinstalling my data after replacements and so forth.

Apple is needed in the industry, BUT only as long as it provides a good alternative. If Apple product quality continue to drop then it will not remain a good alternative. It is my firm opinion that one of the reasons Apple will be ok is that so many of us won't accept anything less than first-rate quality from them and will continue to return items that do not meet our standards until Apple gets the message. Just like criticising George Bush for his complete and utter incompetence is an expression of patriotism, so is criticising Apple for its poor quality an expression of concern and loyalty. If it were any other computer company, I'd just walk away and go to a better competitor. With Apple I have developed a relationship over the years, one that I cannot easily walk away from.

In any case, I think you're wrong about there some kind of conspiracy here. People bash Apple as a way to vent when Apple is wasting their time and hard-earned money. And so they should.
Click to expand...

So, what is your point? Since you do not do it, the assumption is that it does not exist? I am not so shallow to suggest that there are no valid issues being raised.

However, there is definitely an anti-Apple campaign and that is a proven fact. I am pretty confident I detect some of it on this board. So, I post my comments and let others draw there own conclusions. I think the evidence is pretty clear for anyone trained to detect it. But, I really am not trying to convince you of something that you do not agree with. I doubt if most people share this view either. I am going to move on. I will allow you the final volley.

Cheers!
 
SMM said:
New people who read the trolling posts may have a difficult time discerning fact from fiction. They come in two main flavors.

Type 1 - "My disastrous experience". Usually a newbie and it will start out with some problem, which often makes little sense. Readers will respond, and then there is another problem. Then there is another issue. Eventually it ends up with a scathing dialog about the lousy service they have received from Apple Care.

Type 2 - "Global Condemnation". These are the posts like "Apple is abandoning its computer customers", "Apple's QC is terrible", "Apple do not get it", etc. They seldom have any purpose other than to flame Apple. If they contain any fact, it is seldom close to substantiating the original claim. The ones I find most amusing are when the OP will quote from previous threads and you go find them, and he/she was the originator. In essence, they are using themselves as the source. Somewhat clever, but rather obvious.

It is my belief that a large percentage of these bashing posts are intended to spread disinformation and propaganda. Otherwise, why do it? They are also too similar in context and structure. In fact, I suspect that some are written by the same person, using multiple names. The writing styles are identical.
Click to expand...

I concur with your analysis. There are obviously people haunting these forums that are here specifically to stir up trouble and sow a little FUD.

I think that for the most part the people on these boards have got genuine problems, what I would like to see is a movement away from the standard response of 'I've got the same problem as well' to somebody posting a possible way to fix the issue or post a link to an article that might be relevant to the OP.

Sopranino
 
Sbrocket said:
A poorly sampled poll taken from a group of biased consumers? You've got to be kidding me; trying to claim any small sample like that and especially set up such as that is reliable is the antithesis of logic.
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I don't see how it's biased, ofcourse you being in a apple forum shows that you're somewhat biased as well.

But when you start seeing post about people exchanging their defected machines and getting another machine with the same defect or a whole other defect then it gets pretty sad. Some of them taking 3 to 5 exchanges til they get a good/perfect one.
 
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