Apple "botched its new operating system Snow Leopard"

[Topher15]

Sorry if this has already been posted.

Check out this BBC article on the launch of Windows 7: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8310867.stm

Specifically this bit:

Also useful is the misstep of its other nemesis, Apple, which uncharacteristically botched its new operating system Snow Leopard, not anywhere near as badly as Vista, but enough to give Microsoft a clear run for its Windows 7 launch.

How was Snow Leopard botched?

 

[telecomm]

They're probably referring to the Guest account problem.

 

[BongoBanger]

'Botched' is a bit harsh but if Apple are going to use quality as a major selling point then they need to ensure their QA is up to speed and, unfortunately, it wasn't on this occassion.

 

[pdjudd]

They're probably referring to the Guest account problem.

If that's the case, they need to remember that it was a very rare bug that effected a small number of users (I recall people trying to replicate this and failing) and is mitigated by something that Apple has recommended using for years - backups. In fact Apple had such a system in place that was really new in Leopard....

Speaking of Leopard, I got hit by a real nasty permissions issue back on launch day for Leopard where my admin account was no longer able to authenticate anything.

 

[Darth.Titan]

This is just a random statement with no corroborating evidence to support the claim.

In what way was Snow Leopard "botched"? Even the much over-hyped "Guest account bug" is so rare and difficult to reproduce that it's a non-issue as far as I'm concerned.

You can't make a blanket accusation like that without something to back it up. I would hope that the BBC would want to avoid starting to sound like an American news outlet.

 

[dejo]

I would hope that the BBC would want to avoid starting to sound like an American news outlet.

...or the Daily Star.

 

[thejadedmonkey]

To advance Mac OS X Leopard, Apple engineers went deep into the code to streamline, secure, and add new core technologies.

With Snow Leopard, your entire Mac experience — from installation to shut down — gets more refined, more streamlined, and more responsive.

That's what Apple wanted to do. What they did was create new bugs. I'd call that botched.

 

[whooleytoo]

If that's the case, they need to remember that it was a very rare bug that effected a small number of users (I recall people trying to replicate this and failing) and is mitigated by something that Apple has recommended using for years - backups. In fact Apple had such a system in place that was really new in Leopard....

A data loss bug is as serious an issue as you get. While having a backup system is crucial for most users, it's not much of a mitigation for Apple.

 

[djellison]

Here's the fundamental points of my experience.

10.6 offers ZERO tangiable benefits of 10.5 for my end user experience. No improvements in performance or reliability in any way whatsoever. Safari is still buggy as hell and still worse than it was with Tiger. Furthermore - upgrading from 10.5 to 10.6, despite the much celebrated upgrade path being so wonderfull, reduced a 2.2 MBP to a useless wreck. Twice.

You can scream and shout about 64 bit or behind-the-scenes reprogramming but it's worth exactly JACK as far as I'm concerned - there are NO tangible benefits for me as an end user whatsoever. None. Nothing. If I could go back a couple of months and not bother with 10.6 at all, stick with 10.5, save myself the couple of hours it wasted and save myself the £25, I would.

Win7 is a massive leap forward over Vista. It's faster, more reliable, I'd rather use IE 8 than Safari (but I use Chrome as it's faster than either of them). The upgrade path from Vista was utterly painless (however, a small part of me hated OS upgrades anyway - and I have since, as with the MBP above, done clean installs). Furthermore, Win7 has made my little NC10 netbook even faster and more fun to use. It's been worth every penny of money, and time, I've spent upgrading.

When you compare the two experiences - they are night and day. One is a brilliant upgrade. One just isn't. Not even slightly. It's very very easy to see why one might describe what Apple has done over the last two years, as botched.

 

[bartelby]

Well that makes a change. A BBC article sniping at Apple

 

[Sun Baked]

Here's the fundamental points of my experience.

10.6 offers ZERO tangiable benefits of 10.5 for my end user experience.

You could have said the same thing about Carbon and its scads of toolbox rewrites and tree pruning, but without it we wouldn't have been able to make it to 10.4 relatively painlessly. Once it was sorted it was damn stable, without those rewrites the Rube Goldberg OS future path was messy.

10.6 was a rewrite aimed at future OS's, what it'll allow by getting rid of legacy code is unknown. Since we don't have Rhapsody/NeXT sitting there giving us a glimpse of the future OS.

---

Almost as pointless as handing a kid a crayon and some paper, which offers no tangible benefit if the kid has no imagination ...

 

[djellison]

10.6 was a rewrite aimed at future OS's

Then why aim it at consumers as well? Leave it in the hands of developers for another 18 months, then roll it out with some new features when someone's actually done something with 10.6 that an end user might find useful.

 

[dmmcintyre3]

Speaking of Leopard, I got hit by a real nasty permissions issue back on launch day for Leopard where my admin account was no longer able to authenticate anything.

That was easy to recover for me, just a little unix hacking to do it. (just 1 command in single user mode after getting read/write access to it) IT also only happened when you did an upgrade install from tiger

 

[jaw04005]

Then why aim it at consumers as well? Leave it in the hands of developers for another 18 months, then roll it out with some new features when someone's actually done something with 10.6 that an end user might find useful.

It all came down to marketing.

Apple needed something to compete against Windows 7. They've always had an OS release to launch alongside a new version of Windows. It's their competitive DNA. They were affraid Leopard would look stale and old against Windows 7 even though it shipped some eight and half months after Vista.

Personally, I think Apple grossly underestimated Windows 7. Microsoft managed to not only pump out a revision to Vista that included new under the hood changes, but several major and lots of minor end-user changes too. The goodwill that Windows 7 has generated in the tech community is rather miraculous considering what happened with Vista.

For whatever reason, Apple's engineering resources have been concentrated elsewhere (likely toward iPhone and the rumored tablet) which is somewhat sad considering they delayed 10.5 6-8 months to work on the iPhone also.

I hate to give Jobs too much credit at Apple, but you can tell he wasn't involved with Snow Leopard. But you never know they might bust out 10.7 at next year's WWDC with a Spring 2011 launch date.

 

[dejo]

Then why aim it at consumers as well? Leave it in the hands of developers for another 18 months, then roll it out with some new features when someone's actually done something with 10.6 that an end user might find useful.

Just because you perceive no tangible benefits to Snow Leopard doesn't mean that nobody else does.

 

[thegoldenmackid]

I don't believe it was botched, Vista was botched.

 

[mysterytramp]

The piece is full of breathless prose. For example:

Windows 7 is Microsoft's one and maybe only chance to redeem itself.

Should Microsoft rest on its Windows 7 laurels, it might end up being its most, but also its last, successful operating system.

And here's a quote easily manufactured by a flak angling for a raise:

"I really have to go back to Windows 95 to remember people being so excited about a new operating system," says Mr Courtois, a 25-year veteran of Microsoft.

After top-notch journalism like that, I think Apple should just go out of business.

mt

 

[MikhailT]

Here's the fundamental points of my experience.

Apple clearly stated no new features for end users and it was all under the hood changes. You did not have to upgrade to 10.6 and the only cost is 25-30$. I don't see anything that makes SL a botched release other than a few bugs. It's a successful release that's just a cleaned up code from the previous release. The next release is going to be much better as Apple no longer has to work on PPC code. It's all Intel from now on.

As for W7, it is a very nice release that builds on Vista's new technologies that wasn't optimized. Now W7 with all optimized technologies from Vista, it is a definite replacement for XP.

Just like 10.7 is going to build on 10.6's new technologies, it "should" be much more streamlined, optimized and provide a new experience. The only difference is 10.7 might come out sooner than we think.

 

[dejo]

Apple clearly stated no new features for end users and it was all under the hood changes.

Come again? When did they ever clearly state this? How are new look and new features for Exposé and Stacks, a new QuickTime Player, built-in Exchange support, among others, not new features for end users?

 

[djellison]

a new QuickTime Player

That's a downgrade as far as I'm concerned. New stacks? Not even noticed it. New expose? Ditto.

 

[telecomm]

Come again? When did they ever clearly state this? How are new look and new features for Exposé and Stacks, a new QuickTime Player, built-in Exchange support, among others, not new features for end users?

Didn't they say that at WWDC?

 

[Eidorian]

That's what Apple wanted to do. What they did was create new bugs. I'd call that botched.

That's pretty much where I stand.

Though Snow Leopard still feels like something to prop against Windows 7 like a "me too". Everyone is huddling around the hopes of 10.6.2. right now. My retail copy of 10.6. only feels useful to try out a hackintosh.

 

[dejo]

That's a downgrade as far as I'm concerned. New stacks? Not even noticed it. New expose? Ditto.

Well, that's your choice to discount or not notice these new features. But that doesn't mean they aren't there or that, perhaps, other users do consider some of them useful.

 

[MikhailT]

Come again? When did they ever clearly state this? How are new look and new features for Exposé and Stacks, a new QuickTime Player, built-in Exchange support, among others, not new features for end users?

Yes there are some new features added, but the goal for Snow Leopard wasn't for those features, they were just added.

 

[dejo]

Holy crap, you're right! I was wrong. My apologies.