Apple argues in favor of selling Macs with only 8GB of RAM
With the launch of the M3 MacBook Pro last year, many reviewers and customers criticized the company for still selling...
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Apple defends 8gb in laptop
- Thread starter derekamoss
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Well, the sheer shock of it, that Apple can actually find justifications for making and selling a product that they have actually chosen to make and sell. This is the astonishing thing about journalism today, it's so probative and insightful.
Actually, that seems far more a vehicle for some minor jorno to voice his opinion because like everyone else, he does of course know best.
And we haven't had another 'is 8GB enough/Apple is being criminal selling just 8GB/we all know better than they do' thread for a few days - which is not at all a dig at you @derekamoss because it's a news story anyway, but a trite '..these answers are partly true' in reference to two Apple executives is not exactly qualitative reporting.
Actually, that seems far more a vehicle for some minor jorno to voice his opinion because like everyone else, he does of course know best.
And we haven't had another 'is 8GB enough/Apple is being criminal selling just 8GB/we all know better than they do' thread for a few days - which is not at all a dig at you @derekamoss because it's a news story anyway, but a trite '..these answers are partly true' in reference to two Apple executives is not exactly qualitative reporting.
It is just a “Water is Wet” story. Of course Apple will say 8GB is enough. Their store is full of brand new 8GB MacBooks that they are trying to sell. What would you expect Apple to say?
Apple saying it isn’t News it’s just marketing gibberish
Apple saying it isn’t News it’s just marketing gibberish
Top comment in original article is accurate.
"We're complaining about 8+256, but there's nothing wrong with that SKU. It's right for certain customers. We are all complaining 8+256 is too expensive."
"We're complaining about 8+256, but there's nothing wrong with that SKU. It's right for certain customers. We are all complaining 8+256 is too expensive."
I think the price they ask for the base Airs are fine. Maybe the 15" is pushing it at $1299, but it's also pretty easy to find it for less (In the US, you can save $100 buying from the Education store, no matter who you are), but I will agree that asking $1599 for the base MacBook Pro is horrendous.
For $100 less, you can get a 13" Air with the same chip and storage, with 16GB of RAM, or for $100 more get the 15" in the same config. Performance will be nearly identical (the fan makes almost no difference), and while 120Hz is nice, you know what's nicer? A more capable computer that will last longer.
I don't think we're at the point where 8GB is the new 4GB (something useless for everything but the most basic of tasks), but I think we'll be there by the end of the decade, so it's time to start thinking about that for long term purchases.
For $100 less, you can get a 13" Air with the same chip and storage, with 16GB of RAM, or for $100 more get the 15" in the same config. Performance will be nearly identical (the fan makes almost no difference), and while 120Hz is nice, you know what's nicer? A more capable computer that will last longer.
I don't think we're at the point where 8GB is the new 4GB (something useless for everything but the most basic of tasks), but I think we'll be there by the end of the decade, so it's time to start thinking about that for long term purchases.
lol, yeah no thanks. I bought into that to see for myself on a MBA M2. And I would constantly hit the memory pressure and swap file just doing mild multi-tasking. Listening to music and surfing the net with a few browsers profiles open and multiple tabs, iMessage, OUtlook Client. This was all enough to overwhelm the 8GB. When I have my 16GB macs they regularly go up to 11GB-15GB. So I should have known better. But I bought into the rhetoric and tried it out with just 8GB. So if you only use one browser and one other task. Then sure. Maybe that's fine.
I think users will all have different experiences depending on their usage patterns and workflows. As I posted elsewhere:
...I don't tend to bother much with Activity Monitor because I don't have a problem I need it to help resolve, so on a routine basis I'm not looking at the memory pressure or cache or swap or any of those things some people seem a bit sensitive to and even hung up on. What I actually do is use my computers for the wide range of tasks I bought them to deal with. All three [8 and 16GB systems] manage quite well.
That use includes video editing in FCP, preparing and editing large volume docx documents, photo editing in Affinity, GraphicsConverter and Pixelstyle, some web development, management for a book library, slide deck authoring for user training courses, server and network management, SIEM platforms, video playback via AirPlay, and the usual web and email type stuff - though I don't use Chrome at all, and since I was around prior to browser tabs even existing, I tend to use bookmarks rather than have lots of tabs open - typically about half a dozen in Safari, sometimes Firefox at the same time too....
I do compare 8 and 16GB systems and there's no appreciable difference in the functionality of the system, primarily because I don't tend to run all these tasks at the same time, and individually (or even in groups which logically fit the work I'm doing) the 8GB systems run perfectly well.
Alex Ziskind on YouTube has done some extensive testing on this using his workflow as a developer, and while he says that he wouldn't buy an 8GB system for the work he does, he was surprised how well it coped - up to a point.
That is of course the thing, because there are tasks and workflows that are too demanding for a base model, otherwise nobody would need an upgraded one. But the use case for 8GB is certainly well above the level of "one browser and one other task....... maybe". My guess is that this was the actual point the two Apple execs were making in the article rather more sparsely quoted than editorialized above.
It's getting beyond tedious. Only things that will make Apple move on increasing the base model's RAM is;
Those Mac's and the current M1 MBP have never been a problem even with heavy workloads. Yes same as any computer they can slow if overloaded. Safe to say they did a lot more than just surf the web and check email's that's for sure as they were utilised in engineering roles...
Am I against Apple raising the base models RAM? no. I am against Apple's monopolistic pricing of RAM & storage as that's exactly what it is. Apple should reduce the pricing of the base models if they want them so sell in greater numbers as many only look at the spec versus price not the capability.
If you need to use a Mac and you need more than 8GB there are numerous options available. If it's part of your revenue stream you should be building that cost in, if not that's on you...
If the base models 8GB limit is such a big issue to you all out there, complain directly to Apple, send an email to Tim Cook, go to your local Apple store and ask to speak with the manager as even that is likely to be far more meaningful than posting over & over about it here...
Q-6
- User data indicating memory pressure is frequently maxed in basic usage
- A severe & prolonged downturn of sales in comparison to competing systems that's linked to RAM spec
- Significant user dissatisfaction directly brought to Apple's attention, coupled with supporting data (Apple)
- Apple's reputation being tarnished repeatedly & uniformly by the tech-press
Those Mac's and the current M1 MBP have never been a problem even with heavy workloads. Yes same as any computer they can slow if overloaded. Safe to say they did a lot more than just surf the web and check email's that's for sure as they were utilised in engineering roles...
Am I against Apple raising the base models RAM? no. I am against Apple's monopolistic pricing of RAM & storage as that's exactly what it is. Apple should reduce the pricing of the base models if they want them so sell in greater numbers as many only look at the spec versus price not the capability.
If you need to use a Mac and you need more than 8GB there are numerous options available. If it's part of your revenue stream you should be building that cost in, if not that's on you...
If the base models 8GB limit is such a big issue to you all out there, complain directly to Apple, send an email to Tim Cook, go to your local Apple store and ask to speak with the manager as even that is likely to be far more meaningful than posting over & over about it here...
Q-6
While I agree that it's probably in Apple's best interest to switch to 16 gigabytes of RAM and 512 GB of SSD storage, we don't know the "real" or uncharitable reasons why Apple chose to make these configurations. Maybe it's for the bad publicity. Maybe they genuinely believe that it's good for consumers. Maybe it's to force people to upgrade. I don't know. But it is interesting.
I’m so sick of this debate. Maybe 8 GB is enough today for a select few. The point, however, is that any machine, in 2024, with 8GB of ram cannot be legitimately called “insanely great”.
Further, I don’t believe it costs Apple more than $20 for the extra 8GB and the fact that this isn’t standard is just another upset with the current ecosystem.
I know Tim and Co don’t care now but as more and more people move way from Apple, they soon will. Betting the entire company on the future of a single product family, the iPhone, is damn risky. I wish Apple would return to making all their products, hardware and software, “insanely great”. Though Tim is, no doubt, an excellent CEO, and, no doubt, has altered Apple’s trajectory; therefore, I doubt, Apple will make a change under current leadership.
Further, I don’t believe it costs Apple more than $20 for the extra 8GB and the fact that this isn’t standard is just another upset with the current ecosystem.
I know Tim and Co don’t care now but as more and more people move way from Apple, they soon will. Betting the entire company on the future of a single product family, the iPhone, is damn risky. I wish Apple would return to making all their products, hardware and software, “insanely great”. Though Tim is, no doubt, an excellent CEO, and, no doubt, has altered Apple’s trajectory; therefore, I doubt, Apple will make a change under current leadership.
For once I wish a reporter would push back on this nonsense with even the most basic of follow up questions, like, "What about once you introduce your new AI tools in a few months?" Or "how can apple upsell fees be justified based on the absolute cratering of RAM prices in recent years?"
The reason is and has always been, money.
The reason is and has always been, money.
These two are incompatible though. Apple is currently able to charge "low" prices for the base model because of the high profit margins in the RAM and storage upgrades, similar to how premium cabin seats "subsidise" economy class seats for flights.
I’m not sure what you mean by “as more and more people move away from Apple”…
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Which is normal, because when it comes to Mac versus Windows, Apple is still the underdog.
Does it? IMO the current base model MBP represents poor value at $1599 in comparison to it's predecessors. I'd go with an Air but need the active cooling. That said as long as the M1 MBP remains performant I'll just keep that then see what's on the market.
Q-6
Apple will most probably increase the base price if they were somehow forced to decrease the price for the upgrades.
This is all well and good, and rehearsing these opinions a million times must be making someone happy, I imagine, but it is totally pointless. It is also rather insulting to god-knows-how-many-people who buy and use base model systems quite happily that a scant handful of macrumors posters and armchair critics dotted around the world know so much more and better than they do. The fact is we don't know how satisfied those people are and there's no way that we can know. I know about my own satisfaction (pretty high) but I can't possibly claim to speak for anyone else. Nor do we know what it costs to put 16GB in a base model, and more to the point, we don't know why not doing so is a deliberate choice Apple make. We don't know their plans, we don't know their product road map, and we don't know their business.
To say that Apple's management 'don't care' is pure silliness. Likewise, to suggest they have no idea what they're doing is quite a leap of logic on the basis that what they're doing doesn't meet the expectation of a few people who don't like or actually even know their strategy in the first place.
As to 'insanely great'... they haven't managed that in a generation. Nor has anyone else. And it isn't the current leadership to blame, but the fact that amongst other pressures, the market has suffered through a pandemic, a supply-side crisis that impacted just about every single product containing microelectronic components, a crisis of severe inflation across western economies, critical military conflicts, escalating security threats and geopolitical turmoil in international relations, not to mention also significant political upheavals more generally. Anyone who thinks they can better Cook and the rest are surely free to mail in their CVs and resumes, and see how they compete.
It's fair enough for people to be exasperated, though honestly, this pricing of product tiers has been typical of Apple for a long long time. It's understandable to be frustrated they're still behaving just like Apple always behave. Who knew that was a thing? But for every person who buys an 8GB Mac, there is a corresponding duty for Apple to provide product support for several years ongoing into the future. I am far more interested in how that commitment will be met than in aimless circular 'debate' about their product policies today.
Yup. And even more, that the jump to 16 or 512 is so expensive.
Base spec is not the issue, it’s the upgrade pricing.
You believe they intentionally made the iPhone the single product that dominates everything else?
No. I believe they intentionally are putting less effort into everything else.
Think about the spread of great products 10 years ago. The 2013 MacPro was a limited product but it was amazing when it first came out. I bought one and loved it. I was worlds faster than any computer on the market at the time and had a crazy 6 thunderbolt ports.
The iMac was a leading business machine with lots of options and the variety of laptops were so great that even Windows people were getting them just to use Bootcamp.
Even in 2019 there were great machines. I’m wondering if the move to Apple Silicone is to blame.
How the world has changed… It seems like all Apple cares about now is iPhone and wearables. I wish they’d put more effort into the Mac.
If so then Apple will move less volume as outside of CONUS deals on Mac's are near non existent. Nor is the competition the mess some like to project here. Right now the Mac's saving grace is the runtime on battery...
Q-6
The select few is actually millions.
as long as people keep buying it there won't be any change so get used to it
I have a 64 GB Ram in my M1 Max MBP which serves me right, my family shares a base MBA M2 with 8GB Ram. If Apple can give me a base model at 16 GB with out bumping price, I will take it, or I have no problem with a cheaper base MBA.
I don’t understand this discussion. My MacBook M2 Air has 8 GB or RAM and it is enough for absolutely everything I do with it. And there a few million people like me out there. 🤷🏻♂️