Apple defends 8gb in laptop

[MegaBlue]

Since the Intel era, I thought that the price for a base MacBook Pro was insane. Anything "Pro" shouldn't be relying on Intel's integrated graphics. At around US$2399 for the MacBook Pro with discrete graphics hardware made more sense than US$1599, unless you were in sales and didn't need to create more than documents.

Now, the MacBook Air is so powerful that a salesperson, without a huge ego, could carry it and do their work just fine.

I absolutely agree, and it surprises me that people don’t realize this: the base MacBook Pro since the first 13” has always been a terrible value, relative to the other options. It was always nothing more than a MacBook Air in a MacBook Pro’s skin. The base $1299 model was dual core until its final revision before M1, where they stuck it with an 8th gen processor while the $1799 model got an 11th gen.

 

[ric22]

Watch Apple's tune change once the AI focused M4 family are released... 🙄

 

[Lounge vibes 05]

No. I believe they intentionally are putting less effort into everything else.

Think about the spread of great products 10 years ago. The 2013 MacPro was a limited product but it was amazing when it first came out. I bought one and loved it. I was worlds faster than any computer on the market at the time and had a crazy 6 thunderbolt ports.

The iMac was a leading business machine with lots of options and the variety of laptops were so great that even Windows people were getting them just to use Bootcamp.

Even in 2019 there were great machines. I’m wondering if the move to Apple Silicone is to blame.

How the world has changed… It seems like all Apple cares about now is iPhone and wearables. I wish they’d put more effort into the Mac.

I don’t know What planet you’re living on, but the Mac line-up in 2019 was pretty much despised by all of their customers.
The MacBook Air had the butterfly keyboard, a fan, about the battery life of an iPad on a good day and started at $1200.
The MacBook Pro had the Touch Bar, the butterfly keyboard, limited ports, and plenty of thermal and other issues. And if you were doing anything intensive on it, you might be able to get 2 to 3 hours of battery on a good day.

The Mac mini was averaging an update every four years.

The iMac still started with a 5400 RPM hard drive.

Back then, it was hard to recommend any of their computers, because they were all riddled with their own issues.

These days most people would get by just fine with the $650 M1 MacBook Air at Walmart, because even the M1 from four years ago it’s plenty of power for most.
Not to mention the MacBook pros, which I think everyone can agree are a massive improvement over the 2016-2020 era.

 

[za9ra22]

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Apple stock is up 3.8% in two years, less than even the S&P. If we compare that to the pre-COVID 2018 to 2020... well, you can clearly see how the market changed their opinion of the, no longer, world's most valuable company.

Yes, there was a large jump during COVID, but that was less due to Apple's innovation and more to do with the sales jump of the entire industry during the move towards the work from home environment.

I have no clue what your point is regarding an equivalence between Apple stock value and their product roadmap. The market knows no more than we do what Apple's product plans are, and how, and if, they dovetail, so stock values are not a reflection of the points you were making, nor that I was responding to.

And not being a shareholder, or an Apple executive, I'm not sure in what way I ought to care what the stock price is. But yes, I do know how the Stockmarket works.

 

[Lounge vibes 05]

Also, if we’re going to reference RAM when talking about the phrase “ insanely great”, let’s remember that “ insanely great” computer, the original McIntosh, shipped with 128 kB of RAM…
Which was replaced in the exact same year with a version that had 512 kB, because 128 wasn’t enough for most.

So, kind of a strange comparison to make.

 

[za9ra22]

Emphasis mine. What does engineering have to say?

That is just too funny! It is of course not engineering's job to speak for the company. That is what marketing is for. However, the article is with two Apple execs, the other being Kate Bergeron, Apple’s VP of hardware engineering.

 

[oink_oink]

Not just for a select few. For the vast majority. Think of all the people you meet throughout regular days. I have a 96GB RAM 4TB SSD MBP myself; but literally nobody else in my family or work needs more than 8GB for what they do with their macs. I bought my husband an 8GB RAM 256GB SSD MacBook Air and he's never been happier with a laptop. Most people use their machines for browsing, listening to music and watching photos, some text manipulation in word/pages or bookkeeping in excel/numbers and that's it. My husband will use the occasional photoshop for an ad for his business, but even for that the 8GB machine is perfectly capable.
Do I get it that people on this forum want more? of course. But let's not pretend that for the vast, vast majority of people and businesses, 8GB of Ram is perfectly capable.

Laughable! Even my late 2013 MBP has 16gb of RAM. Why didn't you ask--I would have donated that to him for free--so he could browse and listen to music to his hearts content.

A machine that does only those things should cost $100, not $1k.

 

[Contact_Feanor]

Laughable! Even my late 2013 MBP has 16gb of RAM. Why didn't you ask--I would have donated that to him for free--so he could browse and listen to music to his hearts content.

A machine that does only those things should cost $100, not $1k.

A 3k second hand car and a 150k Range Rover take you to the same location at the same speed. There's other things beyond just "what it does" that determine worth.

 

[za9ra22]

A machine that does only those things should cost $100, not $1k.

I think you may have misunderstood the purpose for which the system was needed, not capable. They aren't the same.

 

[HiVolt]

We are all complaining 8+256 is too expensive."

I'm not arguing the 8/256 is too expensive. What's INSANELY too expensive are the upgrades, which of course you must do at time of purchase.

 

[TechnoMonk]

I don’t know What planet you’re living on, but the Mac line-up in 2019 was pretty much despised by all of their customers.
The MacBook Air had the butterfly keyboard, a fan, about the battery life of an iPad on a good day and started at $1200.
The MacBook Pro had the Touch Bar, the butterfly keyboard, limited ports, and plenty of thermal and other issues. And if you were doing anything intensive on it, you might be able to get 2 to 3 hours of battery on a good day.

The Mac mini was averaging an update every four years.

The iMac still started with a 5400 RPM hard drive.

Back then, it was hard to recommend any of their computers, because they were all riddled with their own issues.

These days most people would get by just fine with the $650 M1 MacBook Air at Walmart, because even the M1 from four years ago it’s plenty of power for most.
Not to mention the MacBook pros, which I think everyone can agree are a massive improvement over the 2016-2020 era.

MBP16 2019 was the worst mac I owned. It got hot, loud, and throttled like crazy. I usually upgrade every 5 years, but couldn’t wait to upgrade to M1 Max. Older intel processors were space heaters in an airport.

 

[macfacts]

It's been said many times, it's not as if Apple is the only one selling laptops with 8/256 GB. They sell MBA M2/M3 for $999-1099. Here are some Dell laptops with 8/256 GB for $1040-1599.

Dell Precision 3490 Workstation

Shop the Dell Precision 3490 14" Workstation with Intel core ultra processors and NVIDIA RTX 500 Ada graphics. View on Dell.com.

www.dell.com

Precision 3480 Mobile Workstation | Dell USA

Shop the Dell Precision Mobile Workstation (3480) featuring Precision optimizer & Efficient Intel Core 15W U processor, or see all Precision Workstations at Dell.com.

www.dell.com

Dell Latitude 5440 Laptop with 13th Gen Intel®️ Core™️ Processor | Dell USA

Shop the Dell Latitude 5440 Laptop with 13th Gen Intel®️ Core™️ i3/i5/i7 processors in either U/P-series and available with Intel vPro®. View on Dell.com

www.dell.com

Dell Latitude 5430 Chromebook 14 inch 2-in-1 Laptop | Dell USA

Shop high performance 14 inch Dell Latitude 5430 Chromebook laptop with Business-class security and exceptional productivity on a premium cloud-native device. View on Dell.com.

www.dell.com

But dell offers upgrade to 16gb ram for $150, while apple charges $250, and upgrade to 512 gb storage for +$150

 

[klasma]

Well, the sheer shock of it, that Apple can actually find justifications for making and selling a product that they have actually chosen to make and sell. This is the astonishing thing about journalism today, it's so probative and insightful.

Actually, that seems far more a vehicle for some minor jorno to voice his opinion because like everyone else, he does of course know best.

And we haven't had another 'is 8GB enough/Apple is being criminal selling just 8GB/we all know better than they do' thread for a few days - which is not at all a dig at you @derekamoss because it's a news story anyway, but a trite '..these answers are partly true' in reference to two Apple executives is not exactly qualitative reporting.

What’s noteworthy is that they feel the need to defend it, repeatedly: https://www.macrumors.com/2023/11/08/8gb-ram-m3-macbook-pro-like-16-gb-pc/

 

[za9ra22]

What’s noteworthy is that they feel the need to defend it, repeatedly: https://www.macrumors.com/2023/11/08/8gb-ram-m3-macbook-pro-like-16-gb-pc/

Really? That's noteworthy when the amateur experts bombard the internet with ill-informed nonsense? Personally I'd hope they'd respond a time or two.

But if you're having to reach back almost 6 months for an example, it's not exactly 'repeatedly'.

 

[neuropsychguy]

Let me add one positive thing about Apple making 8 GB of RAM a standard baseline. There is more pressure because of that to keep the OS optimized. It's worked well so far. My wife's base M1 Air works just as well and is just as fast at doing tasks as it was when we bought it some years back, although it's had several OS upgrades.

I’m not saying 8 GB should be the standard baseline (my guess is it will increase to 12 GB soon), but throwing resources around doesn’t result in software optimization.

 

[Gravydog316]

I don’t understand this discussion. My MacBook M2 Air has 8 GB or RAM and it is enough for absolutely everything I do with it. And there a few million people like me out there. 🤷🏻‍♂️

well, my mom's iMac is currently using 6.4GB of ram on this page & just watching youtube, so...

 

[dmccloud]

well, my mom's iMac is currently using 6.4GB of ram on this page & just watching youtube, so...

Sounds like 8GB is enough for her use case then.

 

[Gravydog316]

Sounds like 8GB is enough for her use case then.

no, because if i want to do something besides watch youtube & browse the web,
the imac will slow, (or slow, freeze & restart...)

 

[Geert76]

jeez, it's not that hard to understand, Apple doesn't want you to get a 8Gb (RAM) Mac that will get you 6 to 8 years of happy ownership.
Apple releases 8Gb models, and hopes (and ofcourse knows) you will buy these 8Gb base model Macs and upgrade again in 3 or 4 years.

 

[Gravydog316]

jeez, it's not that hard to understand, Apple doesn't want you to get a 8Gb (RAM) Mac that will get you 6 to 8 years of happy ownership.
Apple releases 8Gb models, and hopes (and ofcourse knows) you will buy these 8Gb base model Macs and upgrade again in 3 or 4 years.

true.
they would go out of business if your stuff lasted & you didn't need/want to replace it

i don't want that.

 

[transpo1]

I think the price they ask for the base Airs are fine. Maybe the 15" is pushing it at $1299, but it's also pretty easy to find it for less (In the US, you can save $100 buying from the Education store, no matter who you are), but I will agree that asking $1599 for the base MacBook Pro is horrendous.

For $100 less, you can get a 13" Air with the same chip and storage, with 16GB of RAM, or for $100 more get the 15" in the same config. Performance will be nearly identical (the fan makes almost no difference), and while 120Hz is nice, you know what's nicer? A more capable computer that will last longer.

I don't think we're at the point where 8GB is the new 4GB (something useless for everything but the most basic of tasks), but I think we'll be there by the end of the decade, so it's time to start thinking about that for long term purchases.

I’ve seen a Max Tech review where the fan in the bar model MBP actually does make a difference— the m3 MacBook Air seems to throttle much sooner.

 

[tornadowrangler]

My how times have changed. The MacBook Air was introduced in 2008, with 2Gb of RAM. Not bad for the time. In fact, probably more than most people needed. 17 years later, the base-level comes with a whopping 4x as much.

Let's compare that to the past. The iMac was introduced in 1998, with 32Mb of RAM. 17 years later, the base level had 8Gb, which comes out to 250x as much. But since then, it stayed there for a total of 14 years. The iMac has come with 8Gb of RAM for 14 years. The iMac has not had its RAM increased since Tim Cook's second year as CEO. The iMac has started with the same amount of RAM since the iPhone 5.

What's this mean? The progress computers made in the 90s and 00s was dramatic and fun to live through. RAM is just one metric, but this metric has definitely stalled. Whether that's a good or bad thing can be debated, but you can't say it's not true. On one hand, it's nice to have a computer that doesn't go obsolete in 4-5 years because the new models have such higher specs. But on the other hand, it sucks that we can't look forward to all the new cool things that computers will be able to do in 4-5 years like we used to.

 

[Altis]

jeez, it's not that hard to understand, Apple doesn't want you to get a 8Gb (RAM) Mac that will get you 6 to 8 years of happy ownership.
Apple releases 8Gb models, and hopes (and ofcourse knows) you will buy these 8Gb base model Macs and upgrade again in 3 or 4 years.

Yep. This way they can sell the 8GB model to Apple consumers who think replacing an entire computer every 2-3 years is still perfectly normal, even one with similar specs to the one they're replacing. Or if you know better, you can pay the hefty RAM upgrades. Either way they profit.

Personally, I think 8 GB of soldered RAM on a matured device that's otherwise good for many years is just extra e-waste. You get by only because of SSD swap, which is also soldered and operates much slower than RAM. It's kind of like buying an expensive new car but it comes with a spare tire installed and you have to nearly redline it just to drive down the most normal city roads.

It's more forgivable on the Air I suppose, since it balances a bit with the other lower specs of the machine. But looking at the Apple's Macbook Pro website and seeing all the things they show it being good at, including graphical/3D work, photo/video/audio, software development, gaming, etc... almost everything they show is pushing 8 GB too much -- some of it, even 16 GB is getting a bit thin.

I've had 8 GB since 2010, 16 GB since 2014. Next upgrade this year will be 64 GB. And that's with dedicated graphics that has its own memory. I installed 32 GB on a 2020 iMac 27" (that I recently got rid of) and it was only C$105 for the two 16 GB sticks (could have had 64 GB for C$210, or C$50 less than going from 8 GB to 16 GB on new Apple computers). C$500 to go from 8GB to 24GB. On an already C$2,100 machine. Wild.

 

[TVreporter]

For the average users like my parents who do a bit of web browsing, basic photo editing and some spreadsheet work, 8GB is more than they’ll ever use.

I think Apple should state use cases where 8GB may be insufficient… and also reduce the ridiculous markup.

Neither will happen but it’s nice to dream.

 

[Chuckeee]

I’ve seen a Max Tech review…

I got that far and knew I had read enough.