Apple defends 8gb in laptop

[za9ra22]

Noone needs a Mac, really. There are cheaper computers for price sensitive people.

No one needs a Cadillac or a Rolls Royce. Or an SUV. Or... well, pretty much anything. There are cheaper cars that go from A to B at an average of modern town/city 24mph, and use far less fuel (for those who are cost sensitive).

Choice. Like it or hate it, that's what we get.

And there are those of us who, for example, are inclined to look at the whole-life cost of things, not just the cost to get it out of the retailer's door - and with resale values generally pretty high, reliability leading to multi-year use, and a great deal of free software bundled in, a Mac works out pretty good for price sensitive people too. Far less per day than a jug of home brewed coffee.

 

[MatthewUT44]

The users that think 8GB is enough make me laugh Defending 8GB in 2024 is concerning. Im sure if people did more than browse the web their minds would change

 

[tornadowrangler]

Base RAM not increasing doesn't seem to me to be an indication of no more progress. It seems more like an indication of what file sizes people use. Except for photos and videos that have become higher resolution, most files (text, spreadsheets, ...) didn't dramatically increase in size between 2012 and now. Sure, people working with databases or who code apps have seen bigger and more files, but even that hasn't been so dramatic as the file size increase was in the nineties. At the same time more files have seen more and faster compression and even RAM has become compressed these days. 8GB of compressed RAM has become better for your battery life than 16GB of uncompressed RAM because the compression has become less power-intensive than actually powering the RAM all the time.

If most people just use about 8GB RAM, it would be bad for battery life to keep increasing it without good cause. In the 20th century, cars kept on going faster and faster. Until they could easily go 160km/h and then it plateaued because outside of some niche uses, most people never go faster than 120-130km/h. The engineering effort is better served somewhere else (like better compression, more power-efficiency, etc.)

Good points! I didn't say it was necessarily a good or bad thing. It's just crazy how much RAM increased in the previous 2 decades and how little has increased since then. I have that 2012 iMac that came with 8Gb of RAM. I would never have imagined the new computer I would buy almost 10 years later would have that same amount. Oh, and that I would have to pay extra for it to have the same amount of hard drive space (1Tb).

But yet, it means my 2012 iMac is still somewhat useful, which I also never would have imagined.

 

[Gravydog316]

This is actually not how macOS works. It is designed to use as much RAM as it can, and to scale itself to the use case. There are limits to how effectively it can do this because obviously if an app requires an 8GB minimum for example, or there are dozens of browser tabs open, there is far less wiggle room for it to function that way, but generally it works very well within the confines of available RAM.

For example, testing right now with the same macOS version and the same apps and files open (thus the same load), my 8GB M1 MBA is using 6.2GB, while my 16GB M1 iMac is using 13.5.


This suggests there may be something else happening here. Freeze or restart are not behaviors expected from memory pressure issues. Slowing down, certainly can be, but I'd be looking an Activity Monitor at what threads are in use by what processes in the CPU tab (this is a measure of what is being queued up for processing), and what memory is being allocated by which apps in the memory tab.

yeah 'cause our iMac freezes & restarts almost every day?
& i use Firefox, because Safari & Chrome are basically useless. It takes like 10 minutes just for them to open.

 

[Gravydog316]

The users that think 8GB is enough make me laugh Defending 8GB in 2024 is concerning. Im sure if people did more than browse the web their minds would change

so can people sue Apple when 8GB isn't going to be enough...?
Since people & Apple already know it's an issue before Apple's even started haha

 

[za9ra22]

yeah 'cause our iMac freezes & restarts almost every day?
& i use Firefox, because Safari & Chrome are basically useless. It takes like 10 minutes just for them to open.

You have something else going on in that system, if demonstrated by nothing else than that Firefox is more responsive than Safari. It's a plenty good enough browser, but not quick.

Which Mac model is it? What version of macOS?

Like a Windows system, lots can go wrong under the hood with things like incorrectly installed updates, but one of the big issues tends to be that when a Mac crashes for a fairly simple reason, it can create significant issues with corrupted OS components and damaged cache files. Usually not hard to fix, though in some cases a wipe and reinstall of the system is necessary to clear it up completely.

 

[Contact_Feanor]

yeah 'cause our iMac freezes & restarts almost every day?
& i use Firefox, because Safari & Chrome are basically useless. It takes like 10 minutes just for them to open.

Then I'd get my Mac repaired because none of that is expected behavior, even for 20 year old Macs.

 

[Darajavahus]

But notice how much of that is cache, and how little is wired. Memory usage does adapt to the available RAM.

Even though I get the "webpage uses significant memory", reloads and clicks have a long delay, so a bad experience while just browsing amazon 😣

 

[Darajavahus]

Something is going wrong with your Safari... did you try contacting Apple? Sounds like a memory leak...

****, that's a thing? 😟

 

[Gravydog316]

Something is going wrong with your Safari... did you try contacting Apple? Sounds like a memory leak...

naw mine is the same.
That's why i use Firefox.
it only uses 8GB of RAM.

Safari has always been useless for me.
Safari & Chrome take about 5 minutes just to open.

Always have.

 

[Gravydog316]

for non-professionals non-one needs a computer then..but who wants/likes macOS and needs an overall very good device with great battery life...the mac is the way, also there are those who wants the so called "status symbol" but dont want to spend money that they dont have

LOL come to my hospital & use Windows:
brand-new computers, wouldn't work.

They had to install an old version of Windows along with the new one,
so our work computers need 2 versions of Windows just so they can work (barely)

ridiculous!

 

[Gravydog316]

You have something else going on in that system, if demonstrated by nothing else than that Firefox is more responsive than Safari. It's a plenty good enough browser, but not quick.

Which Mac model is it? What version of macOS?

Like a Windows system, lots can go wrong under the hood with things like incorrectly installed updates, but one of the big issues tends to be that when a Mac crashes for a fairly simple reason, it can create significant issues with corrupted OS components and damaged cache files. Usually not hard to fix, though in some cases a wipe and reinstall of the system is necessary to clear it up completely.

but it's always been like this since we got this iMac LOL
that's what im saying.

iMac 21.5" (2017)
2.3 GHz Dual-Core Intel Core i5
8 GB 2133 MHz DDR4
Ventura 13.6.6 (22G630)

 

[Rookbird¥]

I’m sorry but this is a bad, bad Apple. They are only justifying it so they can keep on charging exorbitant prices. NO Apple computer should come with just 8GB of ram. And of course to upgrade from 8 to 16 GB cost you $200. Shame shame on Apple and their GREED. Once companies get greedy like this then they just go down hill and eventually become irrelevant. I know Apple is a huge company but they can fall just like so many other companies do once they get greedy.

 

[Gravydog316]

Noone needs a Mac, really. There are cheaper computers for price sensitive people.

ok, can i have your Apple stuff, since you don't need it?

& your vehicle, since you can walk, take a bus, ride a bike, ride a wheelchair, get carried...

...you must be Rightwing...?

 

[Gravydog316]

ok, so is there a way to tell which Firefox tabs use the most memory?

 

[ninecows]

I'm not arguing the 8/256 is too expensive. What's INSANELY too expensive are the upgrades, which of course you must do at time of purchase.

I agree. And this is exactly why Apple keeps 8/256 config as the entry config. They will get a nice profit on it and a huge profit from the “real pro’s” that need more. It’s a win-win for Apple and as a shareholder I can’t blame them. As a consumer I hate it.

 

[sleestak]

ok, so is there a way to tell which Firefox tabs use the most memory?

Firefox has a Task Manager (Process Viewer) that will show you the memory and CPU usage of your tabs.
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/task-manager-tabs-or-extensions-are-slowing-firefox

 

[ric22]

naw mine is the same.
That's why i use Firefox.
it only uses 8GB of RAM.

Safari has always been useless for me.
Safari & Chrome take about 5 minutes just to open.

Always have.

Uh, and you thought that was normal?!? Safari works perfectly for me, even with hundreds of tabs, even with 8GB RAM.

 

[Gravydog316]

Uh, and you thought that was normal?!? Safari works perfectly for me, even with hundreds of tabs, even with 8GB RAM.

since Safari has never worked & Firefox does, yeah it's normal...

that's the problem!

 

[Gravydog316]

Firefox has a Task Manager (Process Viewer) that will show you the memory and CPU usage of your tabs.
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/task-manager-tabs-or-extensions-are-slowing-firefox

oh what?!
i'll pay you back when i win the lottery

ok... why do i need a hundred 'preloaded new tabs'...?

 

[amaze1499]

From what I’ve seen, I don't believe 8gb or even 4 GB is the real issue here. At least not for entry level machines and “everyday day” tasks. The 8GB is pure marketing move to communicate the feeling of its being easy to get a Mac out there. Its still a bit expensive, but sort of cheap for a Mac. A properly equipped machine clocks in at 2500$ - 3500$ today.

The actual trade off for 8GB machines lies in the longevity of the SSD and repair options. The less physical ram the system has the more swap to the hard drive has to be done. Google Chrome or Firefox or any browser are very hungry in terms of ram usage.

Since the ssd is soldered to the board, a repair is pretty darn expensive and knowing that every Mac is obsolete within 5 years the purchase doesn’t feel like a good investment after all. Unless you don't care for whatever reason.
If the SSD fails within one or two years and you don’t have an AppleCare, your investment is pretty much going up in smokes.

What makes it really difficult to decide what to go for is the incredible amount of choices you have today. Apple sells M1’s like they were released yesterday. At the same time you can choose between, what, 4 M3 variants today? M4 ultra pro max air is around the corner. And each variant has its own range of ram available. Either the mix is messed up or they are desperate. What's the right amount of computing power for you? Its uncertain as you can't predict the future.

Those entry level Macs are risky machines to invest in. Not more, not less.

 

[AlixSPQR]

that's like saying life is meaningless, so we all should just stop living right now.
no thanks

And that's why it's so important for price sensitive people to criticise Apple's base model policy!

 

[wanha]

lol, yeah no thanks. I bought into that to see for myself on a MBA M2. And I would constantly hit the memory pressure and swap file just doing mild multi-tasking. Listening to music and surfing the net with a few browsers profiles open and multiple tabs, iMessage, OUtlook Client. This was all enough to overwhelm the 8GB. When I have my 16GB macs they regularly go up to 11GB-15GB. So I should have known better. But I bought into the rhetoric and tried it out with just 8GB. So if you only use one browser and one other task. Then sure. Maybe that's fine.

I can confirm this.

I just checked where my 16GB M2 MBA was at with 13 apps and multiple browser windows open and it's currently at 12GB memory used

 

[Zest28]

Apple is totally nuts.

I can buy a nice 14" Asus ultrathin laptop with 32GB RAM and 1TB SSD and with a superior OLED panel for the same money. At the same time, Apple is offering a crappy 8GB RAM with 256GB storage and a very old outdated IPS display.

I will keep my 16" M1 Max MacBook Pro and M2 MacBook Air for probably 10 years+ if Apple really thinks this and will switch to Linux + Windows as Mac is really overpriced like hell now.

 

[ric22]

since Safari has never worked & Firefox does, yeah it's normal...

that's the problem!

Safari has never worked on one of your devices? How so?

I've owned multiple iPhones, MacBook Airs, iPads, and used multiple MacBook Pros, iMacs and Mac Minis... since the launch of Safari over 20 years ago, and never felt the need to switch to another browser. Sure, the odd site has misbehaved over the years and I've used Chrome or Firefox instead in those instances, but it's not like on Windows where IE/Edge were horrid and Chrome/Firefox a welcome respite.