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Because i have been a Mac fan boy since my verry own Performa LC475. I would prefer one computer to rule them all.

I would too unfortunately we don't live in that perfect world so we gotta make due with what we got. If all my games were available on macOS I'd sell my main rig and get a Mac Studio.

Yes my 2016 MBP was the best with bootcamp. I love my games and would rather not invest in two separate computers one for gaming and another for everything else (that's allot of money even for someone with and above average income) . I hate using windows and everything about it other then for gaming. No i don t prefer a console. So like you mentioned one computer to do all those things what the best solution. For me one computer is what i would aim for.

Well do I have the perfect answer for you: The Valve Steam Deck https://www.steamdeck.com/

Windows? Eww no. We running Linux, a custom distro called SteamOS 3 that is so user friendly, you don't even have to touch the terminal once, let alone the desktop environment.

A small portable handheld that you can take your favorite library with you wherever you go, and could even remote into it from your Mac using Steam Link!

And the best part being the price: Starting at $400 for 256gb, $500 for 512gb, and now including 1TB and OLED models.

Wait no I lied about the best part: It also comes with a case, and said case...you guessed it:

 
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Because i have been a Mac fan boy since my verry own Performa LC475. I would prefer one computer to rule them all. Yes my 2016 MBP was the best with bootcamp. I love my games and would rather not invest in two separate computers one for gaming and another for everything else (that's allot of money even for someone with and above average income) . I hate using windows and everything about it other then for gaming. No i don t prefer a console. So like you mentioned one computer to do all those things what the best solution. For me one computer is what i would aim for.
I feel you immensely, that’s what I was hoping would be the future when Apple transitioned to intel

Eventually I realized they were never gonna stop shipping their 2000 dollar machines with low spec GPUs and I had to give up and build a PC

I now use my PC arguably more than my Mac, ironically because I can’t stand how Wacom tablets work on Mac and vtube software on Mac is a garbage fire
But if I didn’t have those very specific needs I would just treat my PC like a console just so that I don’t have to beg for PC gaming’s table scraps
 
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As others have stated here, and in other threads, Apple will need to either buy a studio or start funding some ports to get this party started.

Exactly. If Apple is truly serious about gaming they need to lead the charge with an investment similar to the original content created for Apple TV+.

It’s one thing to wax poetic about new tools for developers during WWDC. Actually *showing* us what can be done with Metal 2, etc. would get other game studios more interested in the platforms.
 
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Yeah lol, what confused me was when you brought up that Proton benchmark, that made it look like you were talking about graphics translation layers exclusively
Well it’s still a development fact it can’t be true. Taking any OS bugs drivers or optimization out of the equation, your code being translated will ALWAYS inherently run slower. Like I said, this is why I have still built some critical assembly code vs using .NET for example. ANY layer slows it down.
 
Make a game.

Make. A game.

Literally everything Apple says is sugary nonsense until the day they make a game.

Epic sells a game engine. They make a game. It allows them to both improve the engine and test its versatility.

Sony, Microsoft, and Nintendo all make game platforms. They all make games. It's what allows them to understand the difficulties conceptually.

Apple makes zero games. They have zero skin in the game that is producing game products. That lends them zero credibility in the field, and that won't change until they do.
Apple doesn't need to make a game, they just need to make games easy to port to Mac, a process which Apple apparently needs to make extremely cumbersome compared to every other platform
 
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We already discussed it. I use exclusively NVIDIA GPUs. And that actually speaks more to AND drivers on the windows side than the fact that something being translated runs better than not. AMD has gotten better for sure, but NVIDIA is still the king of performance on Windows.

Ehh...I dunno lately Nvidia's been letting me down. Next PC I wanna go full Team Red.
 
Ehh...I dunno lately Nvidia's been letting me down. Next PC I wanna go full Team Red.

I’m still not happy with AMD performance. I hope they do get better as it would be nice to have more options. NVIDIA is irritating me with the prices but their performance is still great.
 
I’m still not happy with AMD performance. I hope they do get better as it would be nice to have more options. NVIDIA is irritating me with the prices but their performance is still great.

AMD performance is great what? Have you even seen the latest RX cards?
 
We already discussed it. I use exclusively NVIDIA GPUs. And that actually speaks more to AND drivers on the windows side than the fact that something being translated runs better than not. AMD has gotten better for sure, but NVIDIA is still the king of performance on Windows.
Have you tried recently? Nvidia drivers have gotten way better and you can even use DLSS through Proton (No Frame
Generation tho)

There’s some annoying issues mainly that Wayland support is incomplete but if I’m not mistaken nvidia is actually open sourcing some of their driver code which should help

There’s also the open source nuveau drivers which are slowly catching up on performance but given your stance on leaving even a little bit of performance on the table I reckon they wouldn’t be your cup of tea :)

Ultimately windows is still the hassle free way to game, but I was surprised by how much quickly things are moving
I’m also committed to nvidia GPUs and I was kind surprised by how relatively smooth running Nobara eith my 4070 PC was - I understand that distro has some bespoke patches to fix the most common nvidia annoyances which would explain why I didn’t tear my hair off to make it run lmao
 
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Have you tried recently? Nvidia drivers have gotten way better and you can even use DLSS through Proton (No Frame
Generation tho)

There’s some annoying issues mainly that Wayland support is incomplete but if I’m not mistaken nvidia is actually open sourcing some of their driver code which should help

There’s also the open source nuveau drivers which are slowly catching up on performance but given your stance on leaving even a little bit of performance on the table I reckon they wouldn’t be your cup of tea :)

Ultimately windows is still the hassle free way to game, but I was surprised by how much quickly things are moving
I’m also committed to nvidia GPUs and I was kind surprised by how relatively smooth running Nobara eith my 4070 PC was - I understand that distro has some bespoke patches to fix the most common nvidia annoyances which would explain why I didn’t tear my hair off to make it run lmao

It’s been a few months or so since I last tried it. With how much I spent on my 4090 and 13900k setup, I’ll just keep using Windows to maximize all I can.

I just treat my PC as a console now anyway. Windows gives me the less hassle.
 
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Resident Evil? Death Stranding? Game of the year Baldurs Gate 3? Stray? No Mans Sky? Other than Ixion and Satisfactory the Mac covers most my gaming needs now.
Boring..... The games that top my list are. Everything COD, Counter Strike 2, TC Rainbow Six, StarCraft 2
 
I would too unfortunately we don't live in that perfect world so we gotta make due with what we got. If all my games were available on macOS I'd sell my main rig and get a Mac Studio.



Well do I have the perfect answer for you: The Valve's Steam Deck https://www.steamdeck.com/

Windows? Eww no. We running Linux, a custom distro called SteamOS 3 that is so user friendly, you don't even have to touch the terminal once, let alone the desktop environment.

A small portable handheld that you can take your favorite library with you wherever you go, and could even remote into it from your Mac using Steam Link!

And the best part being the price: Starting at $400 for 256gb, $500 for 512gb, and now including 1TB and OLED models.

Wait no I lied about the best part: It also comes with a case, and said case...you guessed it:

How well does that work for FPS games like COD multiplayer?
 
How well does that work for FPS games like COD multiplayer?

Call of Duty does not run on Linux due to Ricochet anticheat, because the developers only want Windows users playing it due to Warzone's cheating problem. If you want to run CoD you'd have to unfortunately dualboot Windows

Other multiplayer FPS games work fantastically though. The Halo games work perfectly, as does Apex Legends.

Give me a list of games you want
 
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Building a PC is a mess. I've built several in the past few years. There are hundreds of cases, motherboards, RAM modules with different specs, etc. to pick from. This choice is good but it is a mess to sort through. PC Part Picker can help a lot but there are still essentially countless configurations. If anything goes wrong, you have to troubleshoot which part isn't working. It is a mess but isn't necessarily difficult. There is only a subset of the world's population that would be able to do all the configuration, shopping, and building and have it turn on and work right away. People can learn how to do it but that takes time and money, which many people don't have or are not willing to spend.

If someone doesn't want to deal with this, they can just buy a pre-built system.

True, but building is the best part and makes upgrading much easier. I had more problems with Windows being annoying than the hardware aspect of the build.

AMD performance is great what? Have you even seen the latest RX cards?

What's wrong with their latest cards? I seriously considered the 7900XTX but I opted for the 4080 because of RT. AMD drivers are no longer trash like back in 2017.
 
I don't get the fascination with gaming on the Mac, or AAA games. You pick tools for the job, and for gaming, the Mac isn't it.

I say that as a non-gamer, though. The extent of my gaming is watching my wife play Zelda.

For me it’s the same as it was when I bought the 2011 MBP with the dGPU. I’m going to use my Mac for most all of my personal productivity and for work. I would like to be able to just close excel and then open up my game. I used to do that with World of Warcraft and Diablo 3. It doesn’t matter that it was my the best experience, I had a desktop for that. I rarely ever use my desktop though because I like playing casually on my couch and watch TV. And when I’m traveling for work, I just want one device that I can use in my hotels. And I travel a lot. Right now it’s debating if I bring my MBP (still a given) and then if the trip is long enough to warrant bringing my PC gaming laptop (which I hate using for anything other than gaming despite it having access to all the programs and cloud storage that my Mac can access. If most of my downtime gaming right now is wasn’t Overwatch, I’d probably go back to just using my Mac and use it for work and Diablo and BG3. Mac is my preferred platform for everything but my main downtime hobby(and I’d rather carry my PC laptop in addition to my MBP than just spend a few weeks in a hotel on my Switch).
 
I feel like I’ve read a similar article at least a dozen times over the past decade.

I’ll give Apple credit though. It does seem to be getting better and we’re in a significantly better situation than the PowerPC era.
Yep we keep on hearing the same thing and it never happens. To be honest I don’t really care. I’m not much of a gamer but if I want to game I have a Nintendo switch and my iPad. There is also an x box series S and meta quest 3 in my house which I have access to.
 
Marketshare is the biggest issue.
Nintendo has sold 130 million Switch since 2017. Between 2018 to 2022 Apple sold 230 million iPads (not counting this year). Apple just hasn’t published any meaningful games during that period because they make so much more revenue from casual mobile games.
 
I would replace my Intel Mac in a heartbeat if the M(1/2/3) Macs could play the mainstream games I enjoy.

Until then I'll just keep AppleCare going on this perfectly usable and more practical dual-boot Intel Mac.
 
It's never gonna happen, Apple.

You don't support DirectX 12.

You don't even support Vulkan. No, Metal is not the answer.

Why would game devs compile for the Mac? They are better off just compiling for Windows and Linux, which isn't a pain to do.

That's not true. I'm not sure if you really understand what graphics APIs are.

Firstly, Apple is never going to make DirectX 12 their primary graphics API. DirectX is a Microsoft-controlled proprietary interface - it is not an open standard, nobody except Microsoft can contribute to it, and any quirks or bugs present in Microsoft's implementation would have to be replicated exactly for compatibility. It is designed to work with Windows, its driver model, and the way PCs interact with hardware, and is not necessarily optimal for Apple's devices, which are definitely NOT IBM-compatible PCs. Microsoft does not (and never will) care about Apple devices when it designs DirectX.

It's important to remember that Apple isn't the same company they were in the 1990s - Apple today is a multi-trillion dollar company - one of the largest on Earth - and Apple platforms today include billions of devices. Just in 2022, Apple sold >319 million Metal-capable devices - 232 million iPhones, 61 million iPads, and 26 million Macs. And all of those are running custom Apple Silicon, which works nothing like a PC, and includes an Apple-designed GPU.

It is one of the biggest consumer computing platforms on Earth. The idea that they shouldn't design an optimal graphics API which suits their hardware and software, and should instead copy whatever Microsoft designs for their entirely different kinds of hardware and software, is frankly ludicrous.

Vulkan is an open standard and so there is more of an argument there. Apple is a member of the Khronos Group and can contribute to the design of Vulkan, ensuring that it can be implemented efficiently on their devices.

But even then, there is no reason to abandon Metal. Because Apple designs their hardware to run Metal well, and Metal is designed for Apple Silicon, it always offers the best performance. But, as projects such as MoltenVK demonstrate, that is sufficient to support the Vulkan interface. The Game Porting Toolkit takes that further, by demonstrating that it is sufficient to run almost all DX12 and Vulkan games.

This is not a unique situation.

No Playstation has ever supported any version of DirectX (for the same reasons that Apple don't). If you want the best performance on a Playstation, you'll have to use Sony's own graphics APIs, GNM and GNMX, which are their equivalent of Metal. Developers can write their own Vulkan compatibility layers (like an equivalent of MoltenVK), but AAA games will want to use GNM, just like they'll want to use Metal on an Apple device.

It's a very similar situation on the Nintendo Switch. It includes support for Vulkan, but it also supports NVidia's proprietary NVAPI graphics API. Because the Switch is already so starved for power, basically nobody uses Vulkan - if you want the best performance (and AAA games on Switch definitely do), you need the proprietary API designed for that platform.

So the idea that Apple - which sells faaaaaar more devices than Sony and Nintendo combined - also has its own graphics API, is not surprising in the least.

Also, the video you linked to is full of crap:

1. Yeah, you need a Mac to build a game for the Mac. No surprise there. If a AAA game developer has problems financing an $800 Mac mini, they have bigger problems.

2. Firstly, you don't need to pay for an Apple developer program membership to build for the Mac. But even if you did, it's $99 - again, not a big deal for a AAA game studio. If they're struggling with that, how can they afford to pay their employees?

Again, this is not a unique situation, and is much easier than developing on most consoles. To make a Playstation game, you need to submit an application which is subject to thorough review, typically you also need a major publisher to sponsor your application - assuming you get approved, you need to sign strict NDAs, and obtaining test hardware will cost many thousands more. The test hardware also needs to constantly phone home to Sony and will expire in order to prevent resale.

But sure - it's that one-off process of buying a Mac that's really difficult.

3. You don't need to use Xcode to build, although it is the preferred way. Again, this is similar to Windows, where Visual Studio is preferred but it is possible to use a command-line interface.

4. Then we get to the final point -- the real reason they're not supporting the Mac -- that is was only 0.02% of their sales, so wasn't worth it. That's the only reasonable point in the video. And yeah - I can understand that if it only brings in a tiny amount of money, it won't be worth investing developer time porting the game to the Metal API, or learning how to set up a build and test workflow, or doing QA and providing customer support. Platform support isn't free; but that's a business case, not a technical case. The hoops they need to jump through are nothing close to what Sony or Nintendo demand, but the sales figures mean there's a business justification so developers have to accept it.
 
Every once in a while Apple is suddenly "into (desktop-) games". To me it's just doing some cheap marketing hoping it will help sell Macs.
This was way back with the intro of iMac G3, Power Mac G3, nVidia GeForce 3 introduction, Mac OS X, etc. etc.

Yes the M-series Pro and Max (and obviously Ultra) equipped Macs are very capable to play high-end games on... have been for a couple of years now.
And before that, the later Intel based Macs also had great gaming hardware (if configured with best grfx crard).

And once in a while we get some decent titles, usually a while later than the PC version. The recent release of Grid Legends is a good example.
But in the end.... we only get a handful of games.

Now with the M3's "hardware ray-tracing support", Apple needs to boast about it as much as possible. Of course, an M3 Max with 64 GB RAM will perform superbly... on the few games out there that really take advantage of that.
Now with GPTK, Crossover and Whiskey, game-enthusiasts on a Mac simply use these to run new Windows games, and do not bother to wait for a "Mac-port".

I am one of those who choose not to get a Windows PC just for gaming and enjoy my Mac Studio M1 Max playing some games on it too.. X-Plane 12, Aerofly FS 4, Grid Legends.
And I keep an older iMac 2017 i7 with Radeon 580 Pro for older Mac 32bit games (yep... running an older macOS) and even Windows 10 through Bootcamp.
 
Nintendo has sold 130 million Switch since 2017. Between 2018 to 2022 Apple sold 230 million iPads (not counting this year). Apple just hasn’t published any meaningful games during that period because they make so much more revenue from casual mobile games.
Switch gets some but not all AAA games. It’s mostly just Xbox/PS/PC.
 
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