Apple Files Legal Challenge Against EU Law as Sideloading Requirement Looms

[fmillion]

As a tinkerer, I welcome side-loading with full knowledge of the risks. I also anticipate many users getting tricked into installing malicious software.

I always wonder why people act like this is so black-and-white. Either you don't allow any sideloading, or Grandma will be tricked into installing malware on her iPad by a phone scammer.

There are ways to be secure about enabling sideloading. My favorite example is Chrome OS. On most Chrome devices, you have to make a physical change to the device (such as removing a screw inside the laptop) in order to be able to unlock the system. Additionally, enabling developer/"sideloading" mode requires you to wipe the device. There is no way you are enabling sideloading without being very deliberate about it.

A similar approach could work for iOS. I imagine any tinkerer who wants to do this has a PC or Mac... so first of all the only way you can unlock the device is with an app on the computer side. (I mean the physical hardware solution would work as well, but somehow I don't see Apple ever moving towards repairability...) And once you enable dev/sideload capable mode, everything gets wiped. You will be warned about this repeatedly. "By continuing YOUR DEVICE WILL BE ERASED." If you make this hard enough, you can comply with the law without really worrying about competitors. Tinkerers who want sideloading to be able to install mods and stuff will be happy and will have plenty of pickings from the open source community (think F-droid on iOS). But no business is going to depend on people enabling sideloading if it's that onerous.

You could easily come up with even more creative ways that for this to be done. Perhaps you have to order some sort of physical hardware dongle keyed to your device from Apple to perform the unlock (which would effectively be a one-time unlock fee - which I'm not inherently opposed to). Maybe you must visit an Apple store or authorized provider to have it done as a "repair" (although I could see people being concerned about the privacy implications of this).

I won't deny that scammers can be crafty and maybe somewhere out there is a scammer who is happy to tell Grandma to get an iFixit kit and unscrew her laptop to remove a tiny screw, wipe all her data and then visit a shady website. But at the very least it would set the bar MUCH higher.

My point is, this has always been a weak argument to me. "If we allow sideloading malicious software will become a huge problem." It's not that binary. That's simply Apple digging in their heels with an argument that is relatable to less technically savvy people.

 

[jakey rolling]

There are/have been fake financial apps on Apple's App Store.

Bitcoin Scam App Approved by Apple Robs iPhone User of $600,000+

A scam bitcoin app that was designed to look like a genuine app was accepted by Apple's App Store review team and ended up costing iPhone user...

www.macrumors.com

That's not a "scam" app. That is just a bitcoin app doing what bitcoin apps were designed to do - part fools from their money.

 

[Brandon916]

I prefer the Apple that gets people to buy its products through innovation.

Not the one that guards every cent that it can squeeze out of them.

Those days are long gone. They are fat now. They can simply sit back and copy all of android's new features and their fans still eat it all up. Took them 10 years to add widgets. 5-6 years for oled. Not to mention 3-4 for wireless charging.

 

[djphat2000]

Well unfortunately that Apple died with Steve Jobs. Welcome to Tim Crook's Apple where they listen to spreadsheets more than their actual customers.

Remember: Courage.

I'd like to know where in that spreadsheet it stated
1) Enable Crash detection
2) Enable SOS via Satellite
3) Create Vision Pro
4) Create M# chips
5) Make a pretty good messaging app that pisses off Google. 😆

 

[H2SO4]

If you feel that way. At any time. You can leave the platform.

By the same token if Apple feels the way it does. At any time. They can leave the EU.

 

[jakey rolling]

The EU finds itself in the modern digital era without any significant players in the upper echelon of digital computing.

You've really bought into the American exceptionalism ********, haven't you? You seem to like spouting off this same talking point with every second post. Perhaps you may think that smartphones and fart apps are the only "digital computing" markets that matter, but only a complete fool would think that there is no tech sector in the EU.

 

[boss.king]

I agree with you. And I hope they do.

That would be one of the dumbest business moves in recent history.

 

[scrapesleon]

The way things going u would think eu own Apple

 

[boss.king]

Maybe. But that would be a short term way of thinking. I think Apple should take a longer view of the conflict.

It was probably terrible for business when Google left China. But I think it was the right thing to do. And I think Apple should consider transitioning away from China as well.

Explain how it’s not a terrible business move in the long term? Or how pulling out of a market that advocates for consumer interests over business interests is in any way equivalent to Google pulling out of China.

 

[boss.king]

I don't agree that the EU is advocating for consumer interests. I disagree with your premise.

No answer for the long-term business thing either?

 

[citysnaps]

Sideloading is fine as long as users are required to make a choice in their iPhone Terms and Conditions to not hold Apple responsible for any iPhone bricking and security/privacy intrusions.

You should be on your own and take responsibility for any sideloading that causes you or your phone, harm.

I know in advance that some people will have issues with that because they've never had to take personal responsibility for something they've done.

 

[JosephAW]

Wondering when this gets implemented will developers create a better browser than Safari and what will be the iOS requirements? Some of us have older devices that are stuck on older iOS versions. Are they going to be able to side load and get a more modern browser? Not holding my breath

 

[H2SO4]

I agree with you. And I hope they do.

If they cannot play by our rules, me too.

 

[jakey rolling]

Sideloading is fine as long as users are required to make a choice in their iPhone Terms and Conditions to not hold Apple responsible for any iPhone bricking and security/privacy intrusions.

You mean like they already do? Apple already disclaims liability for software on their platforms. They would have to change exactly zero verbiage in the T&Cs.

You should be on your own and take responsibility for any sideloading that causes you or your phone, harm.

This is a given and has always been the case on all platforms.

I know in advance that some people will have issues with that because they've never had to take personal responsibility for something they've done.

So, the status quo then.

 

[cocky jeremy]

Companies should run their company however they want. The whole thing is stupid.

 

[genovelle]

I prefer the Apple that gets people to buy its products through innovation.

Not the one that guards every cent that it can squeeze out of them.

The key is that without them there is no platform and they are the ones making continuous investments to it. It not like the internet where webapps live. There is an open platform available to all and it is making webapps and using a browser. They pay Apple nothing. They can also host their service on their own platform and market it themselves like Netflix does and offer an app for access. At that point those are their customers not Apple’s and they pay nothing. The problem with side loading is Certain companies want to gain access to Apple’s customers on their platform that they have spent billions building and marketing, use the goodwill, loyalty, and trust of the Apple brand, but pay nothing for that access. In addition to that they want to load apps created with Apple’s technology on to their platform and servers with zero benefit to the company that created the technology and manages and supports the platform. At the same time putting customer at risk, because none of these apps would be vetted as safe by Apple creating confusion about what is safe and what isn’t. Once there is a mechanism to side load without inspection not only is Apple deprived of revenue that supports the platform and the millions of free Apps on the store, it also creates an avenue for scammers to run ads targeting Apple users that trust Apple and send them to sites that look and behave like Apple sites and side load apps that are not safe.

 

[I7guy]

I prefer the Apple that gets people to buy its products through innovation.

Not the one that guards every cent that it can squeeze out of them.

I prefer that people buy apples products for innovation as well. If people don’t believe apples products are innovative enough….dont buy them.

Innovation through government regulation is not innovation.

 

[H2SO4]

Companies should run their company however they want. The whole thing is stupid.

Conversely; Governments should run their markets however they want. The whole thing is stupid
Honestly, where does this kind of rubbish come from?

Companies can do what they want IN THEIR OWN JURISDICTION, and even then limits are placed upon them, (or should be), to protect the consumer.

 

[I7guy]

Wow: FOUR favorable posts about side loading before the "Apple is always right" crowd shows up with pitchforks, torches & battering rams. Impressive to see consumers thinking like consumers! Way to go people.

#2 says it all. Even the most passionate of fans has probably purchased at least ONE app for their Mac direct from the maker of that app or through third parties. And their lives have not been destroyed, their money stolen, their identity lifted, their Mac suffering infections/trojans beyond all possible repair, etc. No problem for anyone who uses their brain to choose their source of apps wisely.

And anyone who is overwhelmed with security worries still has the OPTION of getting Mac apps from Apple's Mac App Store... as would be the case here for iDevice apps. So if Apple's App Store is best, let it win the competition with others... exactly like the Mac App Store competes with getting Mac apps direct from the makers and via third party store offers. Let the consumers decide where to get a given app vs. a lone, single source with lucrative for-profit motivations above all else.

Seems like there is a big divide on this legislation. To continue with your analysis of the temperature of the threads: the EU supporters are trying to hold back the apple supporters with army tanks.

Regardless max is or windows does not equal ios. Don’t equate them as such.

 

[djphat2000]

By the same token if Apple feels the way it does. At any time. They can leave the EU.

I've been saying that. Walk away, let them eat cake.

 

[boss.king]

Innovation through government regulation is not innovation.

How is it not innovation? Is it only innovation if it comes from a certain region in California, otherwise it’s just sparkling progress?

 

[I7guy]

Conversely; Governments should run their markets however they want. The whole thing is stupid
Honestly, where does this kind of rubbish come from?

Companies can do what they want IN THEIR OWN JURISDICTION, and even then limits are placed upon them, (or should be), to protect the consumer.

Companies can’t do what they want. There are loads of laws with regard to that. But in this instance I disagree the government should be involved. As in usb c which was another crap decision.

 

[I7guy]

How is it not innovation? Is it only innovation if it comes from a certain region in California, otherwise it’s just sparkling progress?

When you can eat for free off of somebody else’s dollar (or euro) it’s not innovation.

 

[boss.king]

When you can eat for free off of somebody else’s dollar (or euro) it’s not innovation.

What a vague and unhelpful explanation of your position.

No need to argue with you. The proof is in the health of the tech sector in the EU and its ability to compete in the global digital marketplace. If you think EU companies are doing fine. Great! Enjoy them, and restrict outside competition all you want.

If there’s no need to argue then why do you go on to trying to argue your overly simplified point?

 

[Gudi]

Trying to make everything compatible with everything and opening up certain private APIs and Apple Pay for example is not exactly a great idea.

Nobody is doing that! The EU demands third-party access to the iPhone’s NFC chip for competing contactless payment solutions. Pay can stay as closed as it wants.