Apple finding out it isn't so easy to enter the digital payment arena.

[Rangomango]

Retailers aren't on the hook for CC fraud, the issuing bank is. At least that is how it works with my banks.

This is true, however if chargebacks occur beyond a certain threshold, CC issuers will raise transaction rates as well as impose extra fees. On the flipside, I'm sure chargebacks aren't too big a deal for large merchants.

With major retailers getting information stolen, I don't see mobile payments being too far off from being a thing of the norm. Cards and pin codes just aren't enough anymore.

I think this will be one of the primary drivers behind apple pay. All the other mobile payment platforms (Google wallet, Paypal, Isis...etc), store payment information on their servers. Whereas apple pay does not, it uses a token for all transactions.

For whatever reason, google doesn't like to advertise. I have seen 1 advert in the last year from google and that was for the Chromecast. I wish they would advertise more.

I like this...you would think a company whose primary revenue comes from advertising would advertise. But the way I see it, google wallet isn't super profitable so I doubt they care if people use it. They already read all our emails so they know what we are buying. As far as data mining goes, not sure how much benefit would be added with google wallet.

As far as entering the digital payments business. It is a weird move from apple, because again, it isn't super profitable. They have something bigger up their sleeve, no idea what it is though.

 

[Lloydbm41]

As far as entering the digital payments business. It is a weird move from apple, because again, it isn't super profitable. They have something bigger up their sleeve, no idea what it is though.

I think I read Apple is getting a percentage of each charge through Apple Pay via the CC company, so it actually may be a case where it is profitable for Apple.

Google is just like a debit card when you use Google Wallet since you can only use money currently in your account, so yeah, I doubt they make any cash off of you personally, but they do see what you buy and which merchant you buy it from. That data must hold some value.

 

[Rangomango]

I think I read Apple is getting a percentage of each charge through Apple Pay via the CC company, so it actually may be a case where it is profitable for Apple.

Google is just like a debit card when you use Google Wallet since you can only use money currently in your account, so yeah, I doubt they make any cash off of you personally, but they do see what you buy and which merchant you buy it from. That data must hold some value.

Its true they get a cut, but I think I read the same thing as you where it was .15% of each transaction. A relatively low number considering other guys take 2-3%. Analyst are saying apple usually won't enter a business with such a low revenue stream.


Math for fun, if anyone notices any errors, please feel free to correct:
If apple does the same volume as paypal (~200B a year) with its take rate of .15% thats only 300 million (seems like a lot, but not to a company with over a 100billion in cash)... This is a best case scenario, considering only 2 phones support apple pay. Even with 50 million new iphones, each person would have to average ~$4000 a year.

So this leads me to believe there is a bigger plan, but just don't know what.

---

Yeah agreed about having transaction data, part of which they probably already have when we make other virtual wallet payments (reading emails). But who knows, what the ROI here is.

 

[Brian Y]

Here in the UK, it's not a case of "NFC Terminal = Accept all NFC payments".

For example, a store near to me accepts NFC, and they accept American Express. But the NFC reader cannot accept American Express NFC payments.

 

[kdarling]

Here in the UK, it's not a case of "NFC Terminal = Accept all NFC payments".

For example, a store near to me accepts NFC, and they accept American Express. But the NFC reader cannot accept American Express NFC payments.

The American Express Mobile NFC Payments FAQ says:

"The merchant must have an American Express contactless reader or contactless enabled terminal to be able to accept American Express Mobile NFC initiated payments.

"If the merchant already has an American Express contactless device there is no need to do anything else."

I wonder what special terminal setup / fields are required to support contactless American Express (Expresspay), beyond simply knowing its account number ranges. Anyone know? (Vague testing specs are listed in this doc.)

(A developer who had to code for Expresspay wrote this lament about constantly changing specs a year ago.)

 

[Lloydbm41]

The American Express Mobile NFC Payments FAQ says:

"The merchant must have an American Express contactless reader or contactless enabled terminal to be able to accept American Express Mobile NFC initiated payments.

"If the merchant already has an American Express contactless device there is no need to do anything else."

I wonder what special terminal setup / fields are required to support contactless American Express (Expresspay), beyond simply knowing its account number ranges. Anyone know? (Vague testing specs are listed in this doc.)

(A developer who had to code for Expresspay wrote this lament about constantly changing specs a year ago.)

In order to use Verizon/AT&T Isis aka Soft card aka Google Wallet ripoff, you have to get a special sim card with the secure enclave crap built into it in order to use their services. The PayPass terminal was just a normal NFC pay terminal, but wouldn't work with Verizon/ATT digital wallet without that special sim. Maybe Amex uses something similar?

 

[Brian Y]

The American Express Mobile NFC Payments FAQ says:

"The merchant must have an American Express contactless reader or contactless enabled terminal to be able to accept American Express Mobile NFC initiated payments.

"If the merchant already has an American Express contactless device there is no need to do anything else."

I wonder what special terminal setup / fields are required to support contactless American Express (Expresspay), beyond simply knowing its account number ranges. Anyone know? (Vague testing specs are listed in this doc.)

(A developer who had to code for Expresspay wrote this lament about constantly changing specs a year ago.)

There must be some sort of account needed. Both Tesco and Asda near me have the same contactless reader - Tesco accepts Amex contactless but Asda doesn't.

 

[Jibbajabba]

It appears the Apple is finding out what Google found out 2 years ago when carriers like ATT and Verizon blocked Google Wallet so they could create their own inferior digital pay system.
Companies like H&M, Best Buy, Macy's, Walmart, Sears and many others aren't going to accept Apple Pay and telling Apple to get lost. Ironically, companies like Sears already have PayPass terminals installed but not turned on. I have seen this first hand. If Best Buy, Sears and others have competing digital pay services, is it possible the NFC terminal will work with Google Wallet, but not with Apple Pay simply because Apple has sandboxes (or as I like to say 'gimped') the iPhone's ability to handshake with any NFC terminal?

That said, I love reading all the bvtthvrt comments on AppleInsider located here: http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/182765

"Alternatives to iOS and iOS Devices"

 

[Ccrew]

Retailers aren't on the hook for CC fraud, the issuing bank is. At least that is how it works with my banks.

Actually most banks ping a retailer on a Card Not Present sale, ie: Internet transaction where there wasn't a physical swipe.

 

[jrswizzle]

Retailers aren't on the hook for CC fraud, the issuing bank is. At least that is how it works with my banks.

After October 2015 the banks will no longer be on the hook for retailers who haven't updated pay terminals to accept chip cards here in the US.

As to your original post - I though Apple said Apple Pay will work with any terminal that shows the hand with the three wifi signal bars logo....

Which is confusing given Best Buy does have those terminals. They may simply not have them turned on. Which isn't Apple's (nor Google's) fault.

It's idiotic retailers who refuse to get with the program.

 

[zhenya]

Its true they get a cut, but I think I read the same thing as you where it was .15% of each transaction. A relatively low number considering other guys take 2-3%. Analyst are saying apple usually won't enter a business with such a low revenue stream.


Math for fun, if anyone notices any errors, please feel free to correct:
If apple does the same volume as paypal (~200B a year) with its take rate of .15% thats only 300 million (seems like a lot, but not to a company with over a 100billion in cash)... This is a best case scenario, considering only 2 phones support apple pay. Even with 50 million new iphones, each person would have to average ~$4000 a year.

So this leads me to believe there is a bigger plan, but just don't know what.

---

Yeah agreed about having transaction data, part of which they probably already have when we make other virtual wallet payments (reading emails). But who knows, what the ROI here is.

Apple's goals have to be far larger than what Paypal is doing today. Paypal is almost exclusively online payments- its share of the much larger physical location transactions is effectively zero.