Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Apple Gestapo: Engineer fired for showing iPad to Woz hours before launch [UPDATED]
- Thread starter GrindedDown
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
If it's true, which is could well be, it doesn't sound vindictive at all. An action is vindictive when it is pointlessly cruel and done with no particular reason. There was clearly a reason to fire this guy--he broke a product secrecy rule--and from Woz's description of Steve Job's reaction there was clearly no animus.
"Ruthlessly secretive," yes, but then given the level of interest in Apple's secrets, and the money people are willing to pay to break that security, it's justified.
And I think you mean "disenchantment" not "disenfranchisement."
"Ruthlessly secretive," yes, but then given the level of interest in Apple's secrets, and the money people are willing to pay to break that security, it's justified.
And I think you mean "disenchantment" not "disenfranchisement."
How would either of you guys even have a clue as to whether or not that's true?
Not only is he still an employee... he has badge #1. I do not believe the story.
/Jim
Apple is a very high profile company, and certainly a big target for IP theft and industrial espionage. Their methods may seem harsh to us, but probably necessary if they are to continue bringing out the types of products we're used to. No doubt if you go to work for Apple you have to learn to play by their rules of secrecy and security.
Quite contrary to what someone said earlier, I think it's very important how a company treats its employees. That's why I like google (They have slides!) and dislike most companies that manufacture in China, however difficult that is to avoid these days.
Agreed. Without Woz, there would be no Apple Computer Company. But I do believe the story. Apple, now under Jobs aka the Fourth Reich, would be arrogant enough to keep Woz out of the loop.
I'm sure that the employee was quite aware of the terms of his employment. He chose to ignore them. No vindictiveness, no ruthlessness. If I breach the terms of my employment, I'd be stupid to not expect reprisals.
Godwin doesn't apply in this case. Apple's employee Loyalty enforcers are already known as the "Apple Gestapo", both internally and externally.
Apple Gestapo: How Apple Hunts Down Leaks - Gizmodo Dec 2009
If the rule was "show this to NOBODY, not even employees in other departments" -- which Apple is known to do -- then no, you wouldn't let them.
I work in a company with fairly strict entry security. The CEO told employees a story once about how he tried to walk past the security desk without his employee badge. The girl at the security desk said, "Sorry, sir, you can't go by without your badge." He looked at her and said "Excuse me, do you know who I am?" And she apparently said, "Yes I do, Mr. CEO, but you still need to show me your badge." He praised her publicly for following procedure and without exception.
Sometimes I wonder how the story would have ended if she had let him by. Would she have been fired?
...and where employees are free to talk about any upcoming projects, or the details of their server farms, or whatever happens to strike their fancy as they slide the day away!
Well, if your boss told you to keep something inside your department, would you be surprised if you got fired for spilling the beans?
This makes me wonder how close Jobs and Woz now are.I mean Jobs has in the past stolen Woz exploits as his own,maybe he does not fully trust Woz with the info, which seems ridiculous, but I would guess Jobs got the last call on whether the guy got fired or not.
If it wasn't 100% clear to the employee that he couldn't show that model after April 3rd like he believed, then I wouldn't have fired him.
Apparently, the only reason he was fired was because he showed Woz an iPad + 3G model. From how I interpreted the story, the employee was perhaps allowed to show people the iPad outside the secured area after April 3rd, but not the iPad with 3G??
He showed Woz, but that doesn't make a difference if Woz wasn't on the list of people Jobs agreed could see a product before its launch.
I think the employee should be spared. Everyone here is saying that if you break the rules, you should be fired. However, I think circumstances should be considered individually. I'd take a different stance if the employee decided to walk around and showed off the iPad to anybody who was interested. But no. He showed it to the co-founder of Apple.
Apparently, the only reason he was fired was because he showed Woz an iPad + 3G model. From how I interpreted the story, the employee was perhaps allowed to show people the iPad outside the secured area after April 3rd, but not the iPad with 3G??
He showed Woz, but that doesn't make a difference if Woz wasn't on the list of people Jobs agreed could see a product before its launch.
I think the employee should be spared. Everyone here is saying that if you break the rules, you should be fired. However, I think circumstances should be considered individually. I'd take a different stance if the employee decided to walk around and showed off the iPad to anybody who was interested. But no. He showed it to the co-founder of Apple.
Build me a good computer. Innovate. Be responsive to me as a customer. Your employees are grownup. They can take care of themselves and if they don't like the rules, they can find another job. And if they don't follow the rules, they'll have to get another job.
Yes. I'm sure we all get a warm fuzzy feeling from some corporations and hate others for their callousness. If only we all had any realistic understanding, even the faintest glimmer, of the actual corporate dynamics and culture. If only our feelings had some realistic basis in fact, rather than a "story" from Gizmodo.
If Apple wanted to fire the guy, they would have done it as soon as the prototype went missing last month. The fact that the finder sold it to Gizmodo is irrelevant in terms of disciplinary action against the employee.
Of course, animosity and lack of trustworthiness is another issue entirely.
Ok, I think it is appropriate to post my actual opinion on the matter now.
Gray Powell obv did nothing to intentionally breach his NDA. That is clear because he likely would have been fired for it and would almost definitely have been fired if he wasn't allowed to remove the device from a secure facility.
The engineer that Woz speaks of knowingly breached his contract. It may have even been a setup of sorts or not (conspiracies are a whole 'nother thread). I believe the context in which the NDA was breached may be forgivable in certain respects. One of the large contributing factors for firing an employee under these circumstances is the liability for potentially serious future breaches. Basically, it wasn't the fact he showed it to Woz hours before he really should have, but that the employee appears to have circumstantial leniency regarding the NDA, which obviously does not allow for that.
Gray Powell obv did nothing to intentionally breach his NDA. That is clear because he likely would have been fired for it and would almost definitely have been fired if he wasn't allowed to remove the device from a secure facility.
The engineer that Woz speaks of knowingly breached his contract. It may have even been a setup of sorts or not (conspiracies are a whole 'nother thread). I believe the context in which the NDA was breached may be forgivable in certain respects. One of the large contributing factors for firing an employee under these circumstances is the liability for potentially serious future breaches. Basically, it wasn't the fact he showed it to Woz hours before he really should have, but that the employee appears to have circumstantial leniency regarding the NDA, which obviously does not allow for that.
Reminds me of a story that happened to a buddy of mine while guarding a particular headquarters here in Japan.
"Halt, advance one and be recognized."
<<short pause while inspecting the individual's ID card>>
"Gen MacArthur, you are cleared to enter."
Anyhow, here is my take:
- Gray Powell --> Did not intentionally breach his NDA. He made a mistake.
- Other Engineer --> Deliberately violated contract.
IMHO, big difference.
Finally, a post that is succinct and reasonable on the whole matter. I agree that there are important differences between the two cases.
What is that message? Live in fear scum? This kind of management "style" belongs firmly in the past. Who, working at a big company like that, would deny the cofounder of the company? Especially so near the launch and for so little time.
All this"obey or else" stuff a lot of people have spouted here makes me puke. Find a back bone and search yourselves for some soul. FFS.
All those saying "He broke the rules" - I bet you anything you would be changing your tune if it were Microsoft or Google, not Apple.
How do you figure?
I am sure there are a few such individuals, but i don't think there is any element of fanboyism in this issue.
I doubt there would be any outrage or even a story about a Google or Microsoft engineer breaking an NDA. I think the only reason this is a story with false outrage is because it concerns Apple.