Apple going rotten?

[Manic Mouse]

I now know that I'm not the only person to have noticed that Apple seem to be changing, and not necessarily for the better. Recently I read two articles on Digg that really got me thinking about what road Apple are heading down. Once they seemed very consmer-centric, now they're acting more and more like a money grabbing evil empire in many people's eyes.

Is Apple going rotten?

iPod and iPhone: Are Apple giving up on it's users?

Discuss.

Personally I'll just highlight the thing that's been bugging me:

But why is the iPhone locked to a single carrier?... There's really only one viable reason: Apple wanted a share of the carrier's profits, which meant giving AT&T an exclusive deal. Which meant, we get screwed so Apple can make more money. It's that simple.

I still don't see a single reason, aside from greed, why Apple are demanding (and getting) a cut of our phone plan for the privilege of using their hardware on it. The iPhone isn't subsidised like other phones, they are selling the hardware at a profit. It just means a worse deal for the consumer as we have to pay higher contract fees.

 

[lofight]

No apple is getting better, why would they get badder?? the profits are increasing and so arethe amounts of the sales..

 

[Manic Mouse]

No apple is getting better, why would they get badder?? the profits are increasing and so arethe amounts of the sales..

Are profits rising at the expense of consumers, that is the question and what the articles are about. In terms of computers they seem the same old Apple, but their iPhone dealings (at least in my eyes) are less consumer-centric and more profit-centric.

 

[AdeFowler]

Apple are a business with shareholders; of course they'll try to make as much money as they can, and most of us seem pleased enough when they announce record profits.

 

[Dybbuk]

Yes, I do agree.

It's a shame too, being that I was just now able to join the Apple family, as it seems they are going downhill ...

Sigh ...

 

[njmac]

regarding the second article by Wil Shipley, look in the comments where he posts:

What is the possibility that Jobs will actually stray from the current path though?

Very good. Steve is incredibly smart and it's never paid to bet against him.

He's surprised me a zillion times by making things that are extra-sweet for the consumers.

For instance, he revolutionized the pricing of professional software -- when other companies were charging $20,000 - $100,000, he came out with apps that were $500 to $1000, AND made "light" versions that were still incredibly functional for even less.

Just a few years ago everyone was doing production work on PCs -- Jobs single-handedly fixed this just by making Apple's offerings so sweet and so reasonably priced. He changed the industry.

He was the one who negotiated our ability to play songs on five computers when other companies were locking us in to renting or to just one device. Most importantly, we can reset the devices ourselves -- we don't have to call Microsoft ****ing "support" and beg some jerk from across the world to believe that we threw away our old computer and are really only using the song on our new computer.

With almost every device or product Steve has unveiled, he's hit it on the head: "Here's a phone that, like, actually doesn't suck." "Here's a computer that's small, beautiful, powerful, AND cheaper than a similar Dell, and, oh, it runs a better OS." "Now you can run all your Windows games but still own a Mac."

The recent anomalies are just that: these missteps that stand out because they do NOT fit in with what has made Apple so incredibly popular over the last several years.

Yes, Steve will make mistakes - he's human - but he's also an amazing CEO. Just because Apple may be making a few mistakes now doesn't mean they won't make everything ok.

EDIT: On top of that, Wil Shipley is insanely smart. He has a lot of friends at Apple and he wrote an article that was critical of the company (for all the right reasons, IMHO), and that article in now popular being on the front page of digg and now here at MR. Apple will surely see this and may actually get the slap that they need. Wil is not just some bum on the street, he is very respected by Apple and in the mac community.

 

[lofight]

regarding the second article by Wil Shipley, look in the comments where he posts:



Yes, Steve will make mistakes - he's human - but he's also an amazing CEO. Just because Apple may be making a few mistakes now doesn't mean they won't make everything ok.

EDIT: On top of that, Wil Shipley is insanely smart. He has a lot of friends at Apple and he wrote an article that was critical of the company (for all the right reasons, IMHO), and that article in now popular being on the front page of digg and now here at MR. Apple will surely see this and may actually get the slap that they need. Wil is not just some bum on the street, he is very respected by Apple and in the mac community.

I agree, jobs is a fantastic man. Apple is really doing good IMO

 

[njmac]

Actually, I don't really expect this thread to get a lot of attention. I only replied because I am a Wil Shipley fan and I agree with him. That being said... we've heard for YEARS about Apple going down, iPod killers, the end for Apple etc. and you know, Apple has only gotten better.

I think this is a big deal over at digg because they seem to love bad news about Apple and the complaints are so valid but here at MR? We've been there, done that.

 

[savar]

Actually, the real reason they are locked in with AT&T is that the other carriers passed on meeting Apple's demands. Specifically things like visual voicemail, but also the subscriber profit sharing. I'm sure Apple doesn't want to be limited to one carrier, but that's how business goes sometimes.

 

[MrSmith]

Within the scope of this forum, anyone surprised that Apple is about making a profit and not keeping them happy makes them what is commonly (but not affectionately) called a 'fanboy'. Ironically, these fanboys are the very people - by their inability to raise a complaint or allow anyone else to do so (well represented here) - allowing Apple to "get away" with this basically normal behaviour.

Yes, I do agree.

It's a shame too, being that I was just now able to join the Apple family, as it seems they are going downhill ...

Sigh ...

Here's a good one. Apple are 'going downhill'? You like their computers/phone: buy. You don't like them: don't buy. Apple is not a 'family'. They are a company producing (arguably) quality products. When I'm no longer happy with Apple's products I'll stop buying. I suggest others do the same.

 

[Silencio]

It's pretty popular to dogpile on Apple these days, especially at M$-happy cesspools like Digg. They're so biased over there, they've actually banned Digging pro-Mac articles from Daniel Eran at Roughly Drafted.

And Wil Shipley is a smart guy, but he's about 95% off-track in his blog. The 5% he got right is that when Apple dances with evil companies like ATT and the major labels, they have to do some not-so-nice stuff that those evil companies sort of demand.

The rest is just rubbish: why should Apple license FairPlay to everyone else, or adopt M$'s crappy DRM, when Apple's real goal is to completely abolish DRM? If you don't like paying extra for a ringtone, why don't you take the major labels to court and set a precedent that a ringtone doesn't count as a separate copy of an intellectual work? I'm glad you have that much money and free time to litigate over something so trivial. Apple "broke" the internal databases on the new iPods to screw over Linux users? Get a grip! The changes were reverse engineered in less than 48 hours. If Apple was trying really hard to lock others out, they would have make it much more difficult.

Apple is far from perfect, but jeez: the haters are grasping at straws and don't understand the underlying issues at all.

 

[Manic Mouse]

It's pretty popular to dogpile on Apple these days, especially at M$-happy cesspools like Digg. They're so biased over there, they've actually banned Digging pro-Mac articles from Daniel Eran at Roughly Drafted.

And Wil Shipley is a smart guy, but he's about 95% off-track in his blog. The 5% he got right is that when Apple dances with evil companies like ATT and the major labels, they have to do some not-so-nice stuff that those evil companies sort of demand.

The rest is just rubbish: why should Apple license FairPlay to everyone else, or adopt M$'s crappy DRM, when Apple's real goal is to completely abolish DRM? If you don't like paying extra for a ringtone, why don't you take the major labels to court and set a precedent that a ringtone doesn't count as a separate copy of an intellectual work? I'm glad you have that much money and free time to litigate over something so trivial. Apple "broke" the internal databases on the new iPods to screw over Linux users? Get a grip! The changes were reverse engineered in less than 48 hours. If Apple was trying really hard to lock others out, they would have make it much more difficult.

Apple is far from perfect, but jeez: the haters are grasping at straws and don't understand the underlying issues at all.

I agree with most of what you've said there, but like I said earlier the iPhone contract thing still seems a little greedy. That's what has been bothering me about Apple, how they sell 16Gb iPod Touches for profit yet demand money from your contract AFTER you pay for your iPhone hardware. There is no reason, aside from greed, that Apple needs a cut of your contract. All it does it put more money in Apple's pockets at the expense of the iPhone customers (look at the sucky and expensive iPhone contracts).

I don't think Digg is anti-Apple at all, in fact Kevin Rose (the creator) is a huge Apple fanboy (and he admits this himself). Plenty of pro-Apple stories make the front page, as well as negative ones. And there is no love for Vista on Digg.

 

[Silencio]

That's what has been bothering me about Apple, how they sell 16Gb iPod Touches for profit yet demand money from your contract AFTER you pay for your iPhone hardware. There is no reason, aside from greed, that Apple needs a cut of your contract. All it does it put more money in Apple's pockets at the expense of the iPhone customers (look at the sucky and expensive iPhone contracts).

The two year iPhone contracts through ATT aren't bad at all! Unlimited data for the iPhone is cheaper per month on ATT than their plans for Treos, Blackberries, WinMob devices, &c. That adds up to pretty significant savings over the life of the contract compared to the alternatives, and that was the #1 reason why I didn't buy a cheaper (up-front) Treo 680 to tide me over until iPhone Rev 2.

Yeah, I too was hoping Apple would break the cycle of dependence on the big carriers and their long contracts. However, the carriers still have too much power to let that happen. At least Apple is sticking it to ATT while they're at it, though ATT wouldn't have taken the deal if they didn't think they'd do well with it themselves.

 

[zap2]

No...iPod Touch is very very cool


and iPhone is the single best thing I've ever owned!

 

[Veritas&Equitas]

It's pretty popular to dogpile on Apple these days, especially at M$-happy cesspools like Digg. They're so biased over there,

Are you serious? I hope you are kidding. I'm a Mac fanatic like many on this site, but Digg is ABSURDLY pro-Apple and anti-Microsoft. Nearly every day there are at least 3-4 Apple/iPhone/iPod/Macbook/MBP related stories on the front page, and stories completely railing on Microsoft.

Digg is the opposite of a "M$-happy cesspool." It's practically an Apple love-fest. Sites like Slashdot, however, are anti-Apple, but definitely not Digg.

Based on your comment, I wonder if you've ever been to Digg?

 

[Dybbuk]

Within the scope of this forum, anyone surprised that Apple is about making a profit and not keeping them happy makes them what is commonly (but not affectionately) called a 'fanboy'. Ironically, these fanboys are the very people - by their inability to raise a complaint or allow anyone else to do so (well represented here) - allowing Apple to "get away" with this basically normal behaviour.


Here's a good one. Apple are 'going downhill'? You like their computers/phone: buy. You don't like them: don't buy. Apple is not a 'family'. They are a company producing (arguably) quality products. When I'm no longer happy with Apple's products I'll stop buying. I suggest others do the same.

Mr. Smith, I didn't mean Apple the "corporation", I meant the Apple community. I don't stay loyal to a corporation. Obviously I won't buy if I am not interested in the product. You are taking it too literally. All I am saying is I am only now starting to buy Apple products, at a time where QC is APPARENTLY worsening.

 

[LethalWolfe]

For instance, he revolutionized the pricing of professional software -- when other companies were charging $20,000 - $100,000, he came out with apps that were $500 to $1000, AND made "light" versions that were still incredibly functional for even less.

Just a few years ago everyone was doing production work on PCs -- Jobs single-handedly fixed this just by making Apple's offerings so sweet and so reasonably priced. He changed the industry.

That's not exactly right. Apple has a history of solid market share in creative fields but that started to erode when Apple hardware stagnated and couldn't keep pace w/the PC side of things (Avid actually considered dropping Mac support and going PC only but the outcry from their Mac-heavy user base quickly stopped those plans). What's changed isn't the use of Apple hardware, but the use of first party Apple software instead of software from companies like Adobe or Avid.


Lethal

 

[Stella]

Thats a good article. There is absolutely no reason why you should have to pay again to ( offically - using iTunes ) upload ring tones to your iPhone.

I may have created my own ringtones, or using ringtones from my past cell phone(s) that I purchased.

Like the iPod games - no customer should have to pay for the same product again. Imagine if Apple charged $129 for OSX10.4.11 - everyone would be pissed! I wouldn't expect this from microsoft... In this case, Apple is *worse* than microsoft.

Apple is riding on its popularity and doing so is chosing to screw over its customers....

Apple has great products, but is definitely on the decline in the way it choses to treat its customers...

 

[laurentsj]

I'm MAD at MAC !

Apple IS going down on quality. YES ! and their support stinks !
I,ve gone through two wireless keyboards in less than 12 month, 2 wireless laser mice.
The screen IS showing lines across the monitor and i've been calibrating it with GretagMacBeth tools.
I've purchased the Applecare extension within the first 12 month and Apple has lost my details... they say my iMac24 is out of warranty !
Yes i'm MAD at MAC as i am the first to evangelise Apple, and persuade my family and friends to drop windows and go for Mac.
I'm MAD at MAC for letting down too many people, tow many really talented developers that still produce outstanding software... but Mr Job has sold his soul, in the name of GREED !
because that's the problem, essentially.

 

[TheBonk]

Don't forget that Apple is a corporation. They have shareholders who control the company. The shareholders invest in Apple to make money. So they'll make sure they get board members that will earn them money. The board members make sure the company makes a profit in order to do the job the shareholders hired them for.

Apple partnered up with only AT&T because they wanted control of the iPhone. Normally in the cell phone market, it's the carrier that decides what kind of stuff is on the phone. It would be a disaster for some other company to decide what the iPhone would be. Apple wants to keep their products "made by Apple". Why get a cut of AT&T's contract money? Once again, Steve and the rest of the board need to please the shareholders in order to keep their jobs. Can't bring in profit for the company? Too bad, you'll get kicked out.

I don't think Apple is going downhill. They are still releasing great products and still revolutionizing things. I'm pretty sure we'll see even more amazing stuff in the coming years with the new technology that's coming out. This is the beginning of another chapter in the world of technology.

 

[Billy Bob]

Don't forget that Apple is a corporation. They have shareholders who control the company. The shareholders invest in Apple to make money. So they'll make sure they get board members that will earn them money. The board members make sure the company makes a profit in order to do the job the shareholders hired them for.

Apple partnered up with only AT&T because they wanted control of the iPhone. Normally in the cell phone market, it's the carrier that decides what kind of stuff is on the phone. It would be a disaster for some other company to decide what the iPhone would be. Apple wants to keep their products "made by Apple". Why get a cut of AT&T's contract money? Once again, Steve and the rest of the board need to please the shareholders in order to keep their jobs. Can't bring in profit for the company? Too bad, you'll get kicked out.

I don't think Apple is going downhill. They are still releasing great products and still revolutionizing things. I'm pretty sure we'll see even more amazing stuff in the coming years with the new technology that's coming out. This is the beginning of another chapter in the world of technology.

I
I can't believe you defind the Iphone set up. It's out ragious that apple things that they can pocket a huge amount of money from the cell phone contracts and insist on which carrier the buyer uses. In doing this they are going completely against the cell phone industry standards, and they think that they can get away with it because they have a popular product. Almost as bad is the fact that apple again went against the grain with offering a none replacable battery on their phone unlike every other cell phone on the market. I for one won't be even considering an iphone until they decide to become competitive and I can only hope that other country force apple to do something about this cell provide contract outrage (rumour has it europe is in talks with them)

 

[CashGap]

I
I can't believe you defind the Iphone set up. It's out ragious that apple things that they can pocket a huge amount of money from the cell phone contracts and insist on which carrier the buyer uses. In doing this they are going completely against the cell phone industry standards, and they think that they can get away with it because they have a popular product. Almost as bad is the fact that apple again went against the grain with offering a none replacable battery on their phone unlike every other cell phone on the market. I for one won't be even considering an iphone until they decide to become competitive and I can only hope that other country force apple to do something about this cell provide contract outrage (rumour has it europe is in talks with them)

This would make sense if the purchase of an iPhone were mandatory.

Otherwise, I don't get it.

 

[TheBonk]

I
I can't believe you defind the Iphone set up. It's out ragious that apple things that they can pocket a huge amount of money from the cell phone contracts and insist on which carrier the buyer uses. In doing this they are going completely against the cell phone industry standards, and they think that they can get away with it because they have a popular product. Almost as bad is the fact that apple again went against the grain with offering a none replacable battery on their phone unlike every other cell phone on the market. I for one won't be even considering an iphone until they decide to become competitive and I can only hope that other country force apple to do something about this cell provide contract outrage (rumour has it europe is in talks with them)

Ever heard the term "Think Different"?

If you don't want to buy the iPhone because of the way Apple sells it, don't buy it. There are plenty of other people who are more than willing to buy it. So far it looks like Apple is "getting away with it". They've sold over 1 million iPhones in one quarter and it's expected to be one of the hottest products for the holiday season. I'm not going to explain why Apple wouldn't go with many carriers because I already did.

 

[ntrigue]

I associate Apple products with innovation and aesthetics. More funding; fantastic! I imagine their record stock will not hinder Macbook Touch production.

 

[jeremy.king]

Apple making a profit is a bad thing? Apparently...

Apple doesn't profit if you don't buy, so don't buy if you really them to change.