Apple is not going to stop starting at 8GB anytime soon. And that's good.

[ric22]

Apple have to defend 8 GB RAM in China, and now people here have to defend it. Apple are really having trouble with this, and rightfully so. It is damaging their brand, and somehow they haven't realised it. It is no longer a question if 8 GB RAM is enough for most users or not.

I saw an article in German news this week about Apple short changing customers by expecting them to pay about $2,100 for a "Pro" laptop that only has 8GB RAM. People will start jumping on their backs all over the world if they continue to take the piss on pricing of RAM and storage, and rightly so.

 

[redheeler]

You're making a lot of assumptions in this extrapolation. Maybe they're correct, but I'd like to see more data than just "this is my gut feeling".

Exponentials keep doubling – right up to the point that they don't.
We've seen other exponentials in computing run out of steam; it's no impossible that the "amount of DRAM required for everyday usage by the median customer" exponential ran out of steam two or three years.

I’d like to see someone using a 4 GB RAM MacBook Air or Mac mini report their findings, I’d be curious to know how well it actually runs. But yes, my “gut feeling” on how well it runs Sonoma is pretty simply “not well”. There were lots of complaints in 2014/2015 about those machines coming with 4 GB in their base configs (although the Pro was already coming with more RAM than the Air).

 

[KenkoPa]

I’d like to see someone using a 4 GB RAM MacBook Air or Mac mini report their findings, I’d be curious to know how well it actually runs. But yes, my “gut feeling” on how well it runs Sonoma is pretty simply “not well”. There were lots of complaints in 2014/2015 about those machines coming with 4 GB in their base configs (although the Pro was already coming with more RAM than the Air).

Those are likely Intel Macs.

No M1 Mac was sold with less than 8GB RAM.

 

[ArkSingularity]

I’d like to see someone using a 4 GB RAM MacBook Air or Mac mini report their findings, I’d be curious to know how well it actually runs. But yes, my “gut feeling” on how well it runs Sonoma is pretty simply “not well”. There were lots of complaints in 2014/2015 about those machines coming with 4 GB in their base configs (although the Pro was already coming with more RAM than the Air).

I actually tested this in a VM (Sonoma Beta on 4GB of RAM) just to see. It actually ran surprisingly alright for browsing and for what I would normal call light "everyday use" (having a handful of other apps open, multiple browsing tabs, etc).

I was able to eventually get it to boot on as little as 1280MB, but the performance was pretty terrible as soon as you tried to open more than one app at a time.

 

[TrenttonY]

iPhone PRO (a phone) has 8GB of RAM standard.

MacBook PRO (a computer) has 8GB of RAM standard.

‘Nuff said.

 

[redheeler]

I actually tested this in a VM (Sonoma Beta on 4GB of RAM) just to see. It actually ran surprisingly alright for browsing and for what I would normal call light "everyday use" (having a handful of other apps open, multiple browsing tabs, etc).

I was able to eventually get it to boot on as little as 1280MB, but the performance was pretty terrible as soon as you tried to open more than one app at a time.

Not 100% comparable to physical hardware with shared VRAM, but interesting nonetheless.

 

[ArkSingularity]

Not 100% comparable to physical hardware with shared VRAM, but interesting nonetheless.

Yea, and a couple of things to note are

1) The RAM usage when tested at 8GB (for control purposes) was only about 3.24GB at boot. This appears to be lower than people are reporting on bare metal hardware, which might suggest that Sonoma is using slightly more RAM when it's installed on real hardware (perhaps hardware drivers and things of that sort might be playing a part here, but someone smarter than I would have to answer that)

2) Swap usage would, in theory, should have lower latency associated with it in a VM than it would on bare metal IF the swapped data was cached in the host's memory rather than having to go to the disk. I have no way of measuring whether this was actually the case (swap usage was surprisingly low with just a browser and a couple of other apps open anyway at 4GB, so this would really have to be measured much more scientifically to be conclusive).

I posted the more detailed data in another thread yesterday (for anyone who is interested).

 

[chrono1081]

Ideally I'd like to see 16 gigs starting BUT, at the same token 8 gigs is plenty for most people even doing some work in heavier hitting apps and if it means a lower price point so more people can afford a computer, then so be it.

I work off my buddies base model m2 air when I'm house sitting and run things like Blender, Final Cut, Logic and Xcode perfectly fine. M series is a very different architecture and most of these tech reviewers on Youtube don't seem to understand that. If they'd try the apps they'd see they work.

 

[kp98077]

Ideally I'd like to see 16 gigs starting BUT, at the same token 8 gigs is plenty for most people even doing some work in heavier hitting apps and if it means a lower price point so more people can afford a computer, then so be it.

I work off my buddies base model m2 air when I'm house sitting and run things like Blender, Final Cut, Logic and Xcode perfectly fine. M series is a very different architecture and most of these tech reviewers on Youtube don't seem to understand that. If they'd try the apps they'd see they work.

agree - no one! Is going to have 100 tabs open! lol I had a base air worked just fine (just didn't like the screen)

 

[canadianreader]

Dude got ratioed. People aren't stupid they know 8gb of ram is insufficient for today's web apps and will push the system to write more on the drive, shortening the ssd's lifespan.

 

[Siliconguy]

Those are likely Intel Macs.

No M1 Mac was sold with less than 8GB RAM.

The i5 2014 Mac mini came with 8 GB, the i7 came with 16, at least that is how the ones I have are set up (I bought them used). There was a 1.4 GHz i-gutless version of the 2014 too, But I'd have to look up what the standard was on that configuration.

This M1 MacBook Air has the standard 8 GB, and right now with email open, two Safari tabs, and two Libreoffice docs open I'm using just less than 6 GB and no swap. OS is the current Sonoma.

That said, I've got to agree that if Apple is going to call a machine a Pro it needs a minimum of 16 GB.

 

[tornadowrangler]

Starting at 8Gb wouldn't be a problem AT ALL if the machine could be upgraded after purchase.

As it is, these machines can't grow with age or customer usage, something that had always been a big part of having a computer.

So, because of this limitation, I would agrue that if Apple cared about its customers, the quality of its machines, and desire to limit electronic waste as much as it pretends to, Apple should start the machine out with room to grow.

 

[daveo228i]

I bought my M1 in October 2021. It was available with the standard 8 megs or for a couple of hundred more bump it to 16. I choose the 16, and never looked back. To me coming from a 8 meg iMac only made sense as there were times I would slow down or just run out.

 

[ArmouredBear]

I cringed a lot reading that OP.
There is no valid justification whatsoever for 8GB base config and the preposterous upgrade prices.
It's horrendous greed, pure and simple and painting this as "good" is laughable fanboy nonsense.

 

[KenkoPa]

The i5 2014 Mac mini came with 8 GB, the i7 came with 16, at least that is how the ones I have are set up (I bought them used). There was a 1.4 GHz i-gutless version of the 2014 too, But I'd have to look up what the standard was on that configuration.

This M1 MacBook Air has the standard 8 GB, and right now with email open, two Safari tabs, and two Libreoffice docs open I'm using just less than 6 GB and no swap. OS is the current Sonoma.

That said, I've got to agree that if Apple is going to call a machine a Pro it needs a minimum of 16 GB.

This is how I'd do base LPDDR5T 9600MHz

- 16GB: M3
- 36GB: M3 Pro
- 72GB: M3 Max
- 144GB: M3 Ultra

I wish I upgraded this way...

Option: MBP 16" wasn't bought

- 2011 MBP 13" 32nm
- 2021 MBP 16" 5nm
- 2031 MBP 16" 0.7nm

Option: 32" 6K comes out in 2026

- 2012 iMac 27" 22nm
- 2026 iMac 32" 1.4nm
- 2036 iMac 32" 0.2nm

Option: MBP 16" is bought

- 2019 MBP 16" 14nm
- 2027 MBP 16" 1.4nm
- 2037 MBP 16" 0.2nm

 

[truthsteve]

Couldn't agree more.

Apple could maybe have gotten away with switching the 16GB RAM that came standard in all 14"-16" MBPs to the new, lower 8GB RAM in the 14" MBP if it hadn't kept the "Pro" in the name.

But of course they had to do their usual bath and switch, furthering devaluing the "Pro" branding.

The fact that the 8GB configuration is the only option you get when buying a M3 MBP 14" at retail explains why Apple's Bob Borcher is out doing his best to mislead consumers about RAM.

Whether you're blissfully ignorant of how low-spec'ed your new $1599 MBP is, or you're spending an additional $200, or more, and painfully aware, Apple wins in every scenario with its ridiculous prices.

I like how people complain about Apple not giving choices but when Apple gives a choice of buying a low end 8GB model, people complain.

Apple can kill off 8GB and make everyone pay $200 extra for 16GB if that helps you feel better.

 

[truthsteve]

That's a MacBook or MacBook AIR user, not a Pro. Don't confuse these. Apple shouldn't sell a Pro machine that crashes when using their own Pro application (Final Cut Pro) because it runs out of memory.

plenty can use FCPX with 8GB.

but sure, deny users who don't have enough money for 16GB just because you didn't like the lineup

 

[foxtictac]

Will you shut up man

 

[PerfectChaos]

I’d like to see someone using a 4 GB RAM MacBook Air or Mac mini report their findings, I’d be curious to know how well it actually runs. But yes, my “gut feeling” on how well it runs Sonoma is pretty simply “not well”. There were lots of complaints in 2014/2015 about those machines coming with 4 GB in their base configs (although the Pro was already coming with more RAM than the Air).

My mom regularly uses a 2015 base Air with a dual core i5 and 4GB RAM. I use it once in a while to help her with things and it still holds up. Not particularly fast, but plenty usable.

 

[iF34R]

My wife has a base M1 Air, and it uses a 7GB swap file lol. She has Facebook Messenger open, Safari with three tabs, and 20 Microsoft Word documents (all text, no charts/pics, etc).

 

[donawalt]

Ironically Toms Hardware just published an article about the 14" 8GB vs. 16GB - and yes, the extra memory makes a big difference.

8GB Apple M3 MacBook Pro Crushed by 16GB Config in CPU Benchmarks

8GB vs 16GB on the MacBook Pro's M3 CPU

www.tomshardware.com

 

[Coreymac84]

Ironically Toms Hardware just published an article about the 14" 8GB vs. 16GB - and yes, the extra memory makes a big difference.

8GB Apple M3 MacBook Pro Crushed by 16GB Config in CPU Benchmarks

8GB vs 16GB on the MacBook Pro's M3 CPU

www.tomshardware.com

Yeap! Just goes to show how ridiculously blind Apple fanboys are. The 8GB systems are absolutely trash for the prices they’re selling them for. 8GB MBP is completely bottlenecked. “pro” only in name. This thread didn’t age well…and it didn’t take long.

 

[ccraig13]

It's been interesting watching this debate while I happily cruise along with my 2013 MBP Retina with 8GB of, glacially slow by today's standards, RAM while I use FCP, CaptureONE, Photoshop (even though they stopped supporting my graphics card), VSCode, and even RAM hungry Chrome...that said, when this thing dies I'm going 32GB.

Until then, the spirit of Bob Mansfield continues to keep these early models alive!

 

[Tagbert]

Yeap! Just goes to show how ridiculously blind Apple fanboys are. The 8GB systems are absolutely trash for the prices they’re selling them for. 8GB MBP is completely bottlenecked. “pro” only in name. This thread didn’t age well…and it didn’t take long.

Yes, I wish Apple would bump up the base spec of memory. It has been at 8GB for about 9 years and I suspect that they will be forced to bump it up soon.

Still that Cinebench test analysis said:
”If we don't put multitasking into the mix, the 8GB configuration held its own as long as the workloads weren't memory-heavy. “

The base configs aren’t really meant for people who are doing 3D rendering while multitasking. A test like that doesn’t really represent the use case of a home user or an administrative office worker. Would they be better of with an 8GB computer or a 16GB computer that starts $200 more expensive? For some the price is a feature.

 

[ilikewhey]

Is 8GB of Apple RAM equal to 16GB? I doubt that. But it is definitely more efficient, and with dynamic caching, even more efficient than we've seen it become.

Is it equal to 12GB of PC RAM? 10GB?

Apple isn't going to stop starting at 8GB anytime soon. They know that bumping up the low end will increase costs across the board...and especially since going to Apple Silicon, 8GB is a good amount if you're a simple user who doesn't run many apps at the same time, or you don't have 40 tabs open.

It's actually good they aren't just going to 16GB, because it incentizes them to make the system as efficient as possible, which pays dividends by making all Macs better machines. And if you are reading this, you're a power user—you come to Macrumors, come on—so you already know you want at least 16GB, so pay the tax.

It's not smoke and mirrors—Apple Silicon does use RAM better, and 8GB is increasingly enough depending on what you do with it. Bleating over and over that Apple "needs" to give away double that amount is silly...they will only do that if they look at what their average user is doing with the machines, and seeing that those folks are starting to have real memory pressure at such a level that the floor needs to be raised.

And when they do—count on it being 12 GB, not 16.

In the meantime...just buy your damn RAM up to 16GB if you are obsessing over it!

lol no, 8gb of ram is still 8gb of ram, 20 tabs of chrome on mac takes up same amount of ram as it does on pc and vice versa.