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Apple just killed the blackbook!
- Thread starter prism
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I agree with CanadaRAM. It's the law of diminishing returns. I have a Black MB 2GHz and a MBP 15" 2.16Ghz, both with 2GB RAM. I don't find the difference between them to be great (if noticeable other than screen size) unless there's some serious video work involved.
There's a lot of MBP envy but if 33% is too much save the cash or get an external monitor. And I always travel with my MB rather than the MBP, every bit of space and weight counts unless the extra horsepower is needed.
Apple is following the same formula many other major manufacturers like Canon have done. Look at Canon cameras, there's one to meet everyone's budget. SJ wants to make sure if you want a computer, Apple has a model for ya, no need to go anywhere else.
Well, consider this: The BlackBook has 160GB HD. If you give MBP same HD, the price-difference goes from $500 to $575. And besides, there might be someone who has a $1400 budget for new laptop, and he could push himself to $1499. While $1499 might be doable, $1999 would not be. Besides, MacBook is smaller and it's more rugged.
This is the exact same argument we were having back when iPod Mini was released. People were asking "why would anyone get the Mini when they could pay 50 bucks more and get the white iPod instead?". Because they could afford the Mini but not the more expensive model? Because they want something small as opposed to something bigger?
$500 is a lot to some. $500 is the price of a your average windows laptop so technically if someone were wishing to go mac then the blackbook is still an option. More expensive than any windows laptop that the average consumer may find but still not so expensive that you hit the $2k mark before you leave the store.
As usual, the price difference in the UK store presents a very different situation:
£949-£1299
This is even more noticeable when you compare the mid range book@£829. That's £470 (or a 55% mark up) for:
Up to 4GB RAM (£200 extra?)
Graphics Card
667 vs 800Mhz FSB
CPU 2.2 vs 2.16
Firewire 800
Illuminated Keyboard
Expresscard Slot
LED Display
DVI Out - capable of running dual DVI display
I'd concede that I have just bought the mid range book, so I may be biased, but I would find it very hard to justifying the extra cost for these features. Whilst the Pro's are nicely spec'd machines, I feel that Apple is having a difficult time differentiating within Intel's roadmap. If their attention was not elsewhere, it would have been a good time to release something "unexpected".
J
£949-£1299
This is even more noticeable when you compare the mid range book@£829. That's £470 (or a 55% mark up) for:
Up to 4GB RAM (£200 extra?)
Graphics Card
667 vs 800Mhz FSB
CPU 2.2 vs 2.16
Firewire 800
Illuminated Keyboard
Expresscard Slot
LED Display
DVI Out - capable of running dual DVI display
I'd concede that I have just bought the mid range book, so I may be biased, but I would find it very hard to justifying the extra cost for these features. Whilst the Pro's are nicely spec'd machines, I feel that Apple is having a difficult time differentiating within Intel's roadmap. If their attention was not elsewhere, it would have been a good time to release something "unexpected".
J
Or not have the extra $500.
Gosh, do you think that's possible? I'm gonna go out on a limb and say it is.
Ok, so lets say I was planning to get a laptop for £949 then the sales person tells me I could get a better model/the next one up if I pay only over 30% more. Would I automatically say sure, heres my credit card?
Personally, I would look at the pro and cons of both models first before deciding assuming I could feasibly afford which one was best for my needs/that I liked best.
In any case, Black MacBooks are - and never were about excellent value for money as essentially you are paying extra for the colour, yet theyve sold well in the past and Ive no doubt they will continue to do so.
Beautifully put!
I agree that you get some nice extras for the extra money, but its still a big chunk of money for some.
And portability is a huge factor for a lot of people.
And portability is a huge factor for a lot of people.
A fellow UK poster (and owner of both a MB and MBP) here, and I've got to say you've missed a couple of things from your list:
1) The MBP has 2Gb Ram as standard
2) The MBP includes a DVI to VGA adaptor
3) The screen is, of course, bigger than the MB.
Taking 1 and 2 into account, that adds on £130 (roughly) to the list price if you upgrade / purchase these parts for a MBP at an apple store so the gap shrinks to £340, £320 if you need both VGA and DVI adaptors for the MB. That £340 isn't actually a bad deal for the bigger screen size, (slightly) faster CPU and, of course, the dedicated GPU IF you have a need for them. In my case the MB is my work machine and it's perfectly suited to that role as it doesn't need to do any major 3D work and any extra minutes that can be squeezed from the battery are important. The MBP (currently sitting in its box next to me
) is my personal machine and it will, on occasion, be used for gaming and, more often, manipulating photos where the larger screen size and extra grunt will come in handy.I'd say right now Apple has things about right; there's a portable mac for almost every budget and the jump between top end MB and bottom end MBP seems pretty healthy and clean cut. There's no doubt about the intended market for each machine (mainly thanks to the GPU) and the designs, while getting on a bit, still look fresh against other manufacturers offerings (not to mention being distinctly, umm, Apple-ish). The only weak spot, IMO, is the gap between the two 15" MBP units, £300 is too much for the extra benefits on offer and Apple really should have come up with something extra, even if only a 250Gb HDD as standard, to split the two machines.
Do you simply enjoy hearing yourself speak? Clearly you do not understand, as apple does, that $500 can be a make it or break it type of thing for MOST of america. And that if they didn't have that kind of extra cash lying around, the Macbook would be a VERY good option. Bro, I just purchased another blackbook... I could have purchased a 17" MBP had I wanted. However, I like the size:feature ratio. So honestly, yes, there are PLENTY of people who will still by them.
Also: Your Prius vs. Porsche thing... ummmm.... TONS of people would buy a Prius over a Porsche... even if the price difference were $500.
This is one of the most short sighted things I've ever seen posted. $500 dollars is a lot of money.
My Macbook was $800. When I bought it, that was a lot of money to me. I couldn't even consider a Blackbook, let alone a MBP.
My Macbook was $800. When I bought it, that was a lot of money to me. I couldn't even consider a Blackbook, let alone a MBP.
Kay yes, the MBP screen is bigger than the MBs, but if youre buying a mini-DV to VGA or DVI for the MB, presumably youll be using an external monitor for a fair bit of time to this is less likely to be an issue.
When you said Taking 1 and 2 into account, that adds on £130 (roughly) to the list price if you upgrade / purchase these parts for a MBP at an apple store did you mean upgrading the MB? If so, its worth pointing out that you can upgrade to 2GB RAM in a MB for a whisker under £60 by buying it third-party, rather than spending more than £100 when buying the machine from Apple. I doubt very much many people will need a VGA and DVI connector, so youre looking at £58 for the 2GB Ram and £15 for the adaptor to take into accounts one or two.
I do very much agree with you about the jump between the MB and MBP.
The what do you use you MBP thread is rather interesting
Although I'd love to see a new chipset in the Macbook so it has better graphics, it isnt going to happen soon. I think the next update for the Macbook/Pro is Penryn in 07/08. It was 7 months since the last update, so, 7 months again puts us in the Dec/Jan area.
The only update I can maybe see coming is a speed update. But seeing as the SR C2D chips top at 2.4Ghz... not very likely
50,000 Abes
$500 is $500. Plus if you are buying a warranty you just added an additional $100 to it ($250 for MB, $350 for MBP). A 2.16 MB (2GB RAM & 3-year warranty) would run you $1723 before any savings (student, etc.), while a standard MBP (2GB RAM & 3-year warranty) would run you $2348. $625 difference is a lot of money.
Granted LED LCD, better battery life, dedicated video & wider screen are nice features, for an extra $625.
$500 is $500. Plus if you are buying a warranty you just added an additional $100 to it ($250 for MB, $350 for MBP). A 2.16 MB (2GB RAM & 3-year warranty) would run you $1723 before any savings (student, etc.), while a standard MBP (2GB RAM & 3-year warranty) would run you $2348. $625 difference is a lot of money.
Granted LED LCD, better battery life, dedicated video & wider screen are nice features, for an extra $625.
Can anyone give me some advise?
I have made the decision to go mac but I can't decide whether to have a top end macbook with 2gb ram or have a new macbook pro.
I will be using the mac mainly for music production with the likes of Ableton Live, garageband and logic pro.
Is the macbook pro a bit over kill for what I'd be using it for or would there be a big difference in performance.
Any advise would be gratefully appreciated.
I have made the decision to go mac but I can't decide whether to have a top end macbook with 2gb ram or have a new macbook pro.
I will be using the mac mainly for music production with the likes of Ableton Live, garageband and logic pro.
Is the macbook pro a bit over kill for what I'd be using it for or would there be a big difference in performance.
Any advise would be gratefully appreciated.
Sorry OP, but you are wrong. What will I get for 500 more dollars?
1. A larger screen, which I DO NOT want for what I do. That enough is a reason not to buy, and also because it makes the computer less portable... but wait, there's more.
2. The BlackBook has a LARGER hard drive than the base MBP. So if you pay 75 more dollars, then you get a matching HD to the BlackBook. That brings the price up to 575$ more dollars.
3. The MBP has a 0.04 GHz faster Core 2 Duo. It's a joke to say that that is worth 575$ more dollars.
4. They both have the same SuperDrive, and the same amount of RAM.
5. Apple care on the MBP is much more expensive than it is for the MacBook.
6. Sure, it has a nicer graphics card, but I don't need it for what I do on this computer, and that little nicety comes with a 575$ price tag - not worth it to me.
So there you have it. Nearly 600 more dollars for a computer that is unnoticably faster, less portable than the MacBook, and one that has lots of the same features that the MacBook does. I'll keep my 575$, thank you very much.
1. A larger screen, which I DO NOT want for what I do. That enough is a reason not to buy, and also because it makes the computer less portable... but wait, there's more.
2. The BlackBook has a LARGER hard drive than the base MBP. So if you pay 75 more dollars, then you get a matching HD to the BlackBook. That brings the price up to 575$ more dollars.
3. The MBP has a 0.04 GHz faster Core 2 Duo. It's a joke to say that that is worth 575$ more dollars.
4. They both have the same SuperDrive, and the same amount of RAM.
5. Apple care on the MBP is much more expensive than it is for the MacBook.
6. Sure, it has a nicer graphics card, but I don't need it for what I do on this computer, and that little nicety comes with a 575$ price tag - not worth it to me.
So there you have it. Nearly 600 more dollars for a computer that is unnoticably faster, less portable than the MacBook, and one that has lots of the same features that the MacBook does. I'll keep my 575$, thank you very much.
The MB will be fine - in fact, Intel are running a VJ/DJ competition where one of the prizes is a MB loaded with software including Ableton. But I would be inclined to go for the MBP myself; if money is an issue, you won't regret getting the MB
Most DJs/musicians I know use the MBP but that's not due to any major advantage in performance.
If you do get a MB, unless you want it in black, the mid-range model has exactly same performance but a slightly small hard drive (that you could order upgraded or do it yourself).
As your needs are specific, it might be worth checking out some forums dedicated to music production.
Granted, you get much more for your extra $500 then you did on Monday (where the blackbook and the bottom mbp were essentially the same except for a larger screen and GPU). In fact, I am now strongly considering the MBP when just last week I was almost sold on the MacBook.
But that doesn't make it an automatic, easy decision upgrade. Some people like the smaller screen. Some people don't need all the extra horsepower. And (most importantly), some people don't have the budget.
But that doesn't make it an automatic, easy decision upgrade. Some people like the smaller screen. Some people don't need all the extra horsepower. And (most importantly), some people don't have the budget.
you always get a lot for the extra money. you pay more, you get more.
granted the current MBP's give you a lot for your $500. but it's not enough to kill the Blackbook. the model lines are too different. and as soon as the Macbooks are santa rosa the difference will be less and somebody will say the Blackbook made the low end MBP obsolete. we had similar situations between ibooks and powerbooks before.
to me it looks quite normal. just the usual up and down between the different apple models. nothing too unusual.
granted the current MBP's give you a lot for your $500. but it's not enough to kill the Blackbook. the model lines are too different. and as soon as the Macbooks are santa rosa the difference will be less and somebody will say the Blackbook made the low end MBP obsolete. we had similar situations between ibooks and powerbooks before.
to me it looks quite normal. just the usual up and down between the different apple models. nothing too unusual.
That's exactly what I'm looking to do with my future macbook!
I was waiting for the mbp update to see if it could sway me, but the 15" screen still bothers me. It's all about the portability for me.
Come next tuestday (wwdc), I'm ordering a maxed out white macbook 2.16, unless they miraculously announce a 13" mbp.
Seeing that the .04ghz increase is quite negligable in regards to performance, the only real thing that would be an advantage musicproduction wise about the mbp is the optional 160gb 7200 rpm drive, but only if you work and record with a lot of audio (live guitar, vocals...), because those files are pretty big. Another thing would be perhaps the 4gig ram, which you'd only really need if you have TONS of plug-ins open at the same time, for instance 10 Native Instruments Guitar Rigs :/ My guess is that 2gb is quite sufficient for the current generation of music software.
So here's the plan: White macbook for portability, and for the extra 500$ you'd pay for the mbp, I'm gonna get a sweet 20" cinema display for intensive sequencing.
battery life
This is a good discussion, but so far one point has been brought up which has little evidence to back it up: MBP LED screen will improve battery life over a MB.
I realize that Apple has listed the same battery life (6 hours) for each model, but I am interested to know the real world numbers.
For me, battery life is at the top of my list of "needs" and, prior to the new MBP release, was the deciding factor in purchasing a MB; however, if I can have the same or better battery life with a MBP, the larger screen would be welcome.
Some thoughts:
Taking into account the energy savings from a LED screen,
1. Wouldn't a dedicated GPU (MBP) drain more energy from the battery than the integrated graphics in the MB?;
2. Wouldn't the larger screen also require more energy?
3. Would heavy GPU use in a MBP cause more battery drain per minute than in a MB?
I know the MBP has a slightly larger battery, but I would love to hear real world numbers.
TIA
This is a good discussion, but so far one point has been brought up which has little evidence to back it up: MBP LED screen will improve battery life over a MB.
I realize that Apple has listed the same battery life (6 hours) for each model, but I am interested to know the real world numbers.
For me, battery life is at the top of my list of "needs" and, prior to the new MBP release, was the deciding factor in purchasing a MB; however, if I can have the same or better battery life with a MBP, the larger screen would be welcome.
Some thoughts:
Taking into account the energy savings from a LED screen,
1. Wouldn't a dedicated GPU (MBP) drain more energy from the battery than the integrated graphics in the MB?;
2. Wouldn't the larger screen also require more energy?
3. Would heavy GPU use in a MBP cause more battery drain per minute than in a MB?
I know the MBP has a slightly larger battery, but I would love to hear real world numbers.
TIA