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JMacHack

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Mar 16, 2017
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The proof is already posted in this thread earlier with a bunch of benchmarks that the M1 gets beaten..

The claim was that "M1 compares favorably in every single other metric to its competition" -....


I can give you an additional one..


The geometric means of all openbenchmarking.org benchmarks between AMD 4800U and Apple M1

View attachment 1922044
I said “compares favorably”
I’m gonna give you the benefit of the doubt since I’m bad at communicating, and explain further:

“Compare favorably” meaning that the M1’s performance, for a chip meant for passive cooling and long battery life, is trading blows with x86 cpus which consume more power.

Now, do I expect the M1 to outperform the best of the best x86 desktop chips in every metric? No, I’m not delusional. However if you don’t define a cpu which compares in performance to it’s competition (often above its weight), while drawing much less power, as “unimpressive”, then I’m not sure what you’re expecting.

Now, with that cleared up, the chess benchmark, shows the M1 performing over 10x worse than other cpus which it compares in performance in other metrics. That alone should tell you that something is off.

It’s been stated, over and over, to you specifically, that the M1’s performance is known, and it’s definitely not 10x slower than any x86 cpu. If it were, nothing would run on it, and certainly not to the degree it does.

This is because of specific avx optimizations (as stated by the intelligent people itt), that exists on the x86 code. The numa optimizations, which would be the apple silicon equivalent, are not in use.

The “generic x86 code” (quote, you), in fact has more optimizations than the “specialized arm code”, (quote, you). And as such is not a true comparison.

If you want to argue that that is fair game, then by all means. But, then you must admit that the benchmark code is favorable to x86.

Now, to put all of this in context, the point on benchmarks in the first place id to give potential buyers an idea of the performance of the system they are buying.

Of the M1 users across the web, I have never once seen these machines described as “slow”. Which if your benchmarks were accurate, people would notice these machines being painfully slow.
 

Leifi

macrumors regular
Nov 6, 2021
128
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You might want to investigate why few reputable people cite openbenchmark or phoronix. Most of them linux enthusiasts.

Ohh., so you really mean "M1 compares favorably in every single other metric that Apple fans believe in... " ... If the statement would have been rephrased like that, I wouldn't have called it a lie :)
 

Leifi

macrumors regular
Nov 6, 2021
128
121
“Compare favorably” meaning that the M1’s performance, for a chip meant for passive cooling and long battery life, is trading blows with x86 cpus which consume more power.

I gonna give you the beneift of doubt that you really don't grasp what "EVERY single other metric" really means:-D

It does not "compare favorably" on many metrics... Limited memory support, no eGPU support, high price, worse software compatibility etc.. etc. etc.. just to name a few.
 
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Sopel

macrumors member
Nov 30, 2021
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I’m not 100% sure, but doesn’t Stockfish uses an alpha beta algorithm under the hood?
if so, it might be very easy to test it on a simpler code base without architecture-specific optimization to see if M1 architecture is the bottleneck for some reason or if it’s software optimization
Code:
./stockfish bench 16 thread_count 20 default depth classical
for a bench that doesn't utilize vectorized code

btw. I got a hand on a profiler output for M1 stockfish bench and it doesn't look promising. The part that's used the most is already optimized to the bone (hacked to compile in godbolt here https://godbolt.org/z/5Wrr18a8b). The other part takes about half of the time this takes, and I'm working on optimization there, but I don't expect much considering that it accounts for ~20% of the runtime.
 

Leifi

macrumors regular
Nov 6, 2021
128
121
Now, with that cleared up, the chess benchmark, shows the M1 performing over 10x worse than other cpus which it compares in performance in other metrics. That alone should tell you that something is off.
No it does not perform "10x worse than other cpus " .. where did you get that number from, have you even read the post here? it performs close to Apples top of the line older macbooks, but 2-3 times slower compared to 8-core Ryzen laptop CPUs.
 

JimmyjamesEU

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Jun 28, 2018
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Ohh., so you really mean "M1 compares favorably in every single other metric that Apple fans believe in... " ... If the statement would have been rephrased like that, I wouldn't have called it a lie :)
No. You seem to have an issue with calling others liars. I meant exactly what I wrote. As I said. Go to different linux communities and search what they think about phoronix.

While we're on the topic, could you explain why you are accusing members here of lying, as well as Arstechnica? If you made a mistake then feel free to retract it.
 

ryukk

macrumors newbie
Nov 24, 2021
6
4
I've replaced a big old noisy gaming PC: 3700x, 64Gb ram, 3060, nvme, etc., with a base m1 mac mini, and in web development, for example, `npm install` runs faster, the web browser experience feels snappier overall.

Just make sure you are using native apps.
 

Icelus

macrumors 6502
Nov 3, 2018
422
578
Code:
./stockfish bench 16 thread_count 20 default depth classical
for a bench that doesn't utilize vectorized code

btw. I got a hand on a profiler output for M1 stockfish bench and it doesn't look promising. The part that's used the most is already optimized to the bone (hacked to compile in godbolt here https://godbolt.org/z/5Wrr18a8b). The other part takes about half of the time this takes, and I'm working on optimization there, but I don't expect much considering that it accounts for ~20% of the runtime.
Try adding -mcpu=apple-m1 to the Clang compiler flags.
 
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januarydrive7

macrumors 6502a
Oct 23, 2020
537
578
Code:
./stockfish bench 16 thread_count 20 default depth classical
for a bench that doesn't utilize vectorized code

btw. I got a hand on a profiler output for M1 stockfish bench and it doesn't look promising. The part that's used the most is already optimized to the bone (hacked to compile in godbolt here https://godbolt.org/z/5Wrr18a8b). The other part takes about half of the time this takes, and I'm working on optimization there, but I don't expect much considering that it accounts for ~20% of the runtime.
Out of curiosity, how does macOS vs. linux/windows perform, all else being equal? I'm betting certain platform optimizations have non-negligible affects (e.g., large page optimizations under windows/linux are reported to get "up to 30%" speed increases directly by stockfish devs) -- I'm doubting this is the only optimization that leaves out non-windows/linux builds.
 

ingambe

macrumors 6502
Mar 22, 2020
320
355
Code:
./stockfish bench 16 thread_count 20 default depth classical
for a bench that doesn't utilize vectorized code

btw. I got a hand on a profiler output for M1 stockfish bench and it doesn't look promising. The part that's used the most is already optimized to the bone (hacked to compile in godbolt here https://godbolt.org/z/5Wrr18a8b). The other part takes about half of the time this takes, and I'm working on optimization there, but I don't expect much considering that it accounts for ~20% of the runtime.

Interesting, thanks for the insight
what do you think is the cause of that? Is it because of the scheduler which is not adapted for this specific task?
because on paper, having a bigger cache and an higher memory bandwidth should be a tremendous advantage for search problems
 
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