Apple Murdered "Shake" > Where is Phenomenon? 3D / Foundry?

[Boil]

I posted this in a different, yet 3d/gpu related, thread...

If only Apple could pull off a software acquisition similar to the Unity/Weta Digital deal...

But it would be a deal with Pixar (Disney) for the Pixar tools/pipeline to be ported over to macOS/ASi/Metal...?

I know, I know, it would be a (wait for it) pipe dream...! ;^p

 

[AppleFoundry]

It seems like they are (understandably) selective about what apps to spend time on porting from OpenGL to Metal, understandably...

...not sure where the delusional thread-starter gets the 'ditching Mac' idea from though. Articles on The Foundery website clearly states that they are _not_ ditching macOS.

With Katana they didn't even bother with Mac (despite the clear link between Nuke & Katana being bridged).

Mari they have officially announced the end of Mac support.

https://support.foundry.com/hc/en-us/articles/360017988500-Q100592-Important-Announcement-Compatibility-of-Foundry-products-with-Apple-macOS-Big-Sur-11-0-macOS-Monterey-12-0-and-Apple-silicon-M1-chips

Modo, Colorway, & Flix are only ones "in testing" > Not supported (in testing)

Nuke, Mari, Katana (i.e. all the industry standards) are just "Not supported".

Not to mention all the plugins, and some features already not available on MacOS.

 

[AppleFoundry]

And anyway, Apple stopped supporting Windows for Shake, people chose Linux instead of Mac, & so Apple killed Shake on both Mac & Linux.

It would not be surprising for Foundry to completely dump Apple for the industry standards that don't really have any competition (literally all big CGI movies use deep compositing, I believe - atmospherics, particles, smoke, fire).

 

[AppleFoundry]

As it stands, Windows/Linux is the way.

 

[MarkC426]

I've come to the conclusion that Apple should indeed buy Foundry, as a starting base.

Maybe you should tell Apple, they might not know.....?
How have you come to that conclusion, based on the Poll results?

 

[AppleFoundry]

Maybe you should tell Apple, they might not know.....?
How have you come to that conclusion, based on the Poll results?

Appreciate the sarcasm / belittling [clear passive hatred]!

No, just what is best for everyone - since the amazing tech deserves, not passed around by VCs, constantly having to extort the price for users - whilst all the most amazing movies were created on it!

Basically Shake would have been Nuke anyway. No appreciation just greed all over it.

 

[MarkC426]

It was pure sarcasm......

 

[AppleFoundry]

Apple could easily attract 1M new Mac users/buyers globally with this 3D / DCC Suite

1,000,000 x $5,000 average extra revenue per year = $5B

If more (1M out of 8B people is nothing) then sky is the limit.

Users would save thousands on these softwares^ (yearly subscription fees) = good deal all round

Plus the new 3D/DCC team that would be created would be epic & a lease of new life brought back into the scene.

Maxon/Foundry just buy up others anyway! Apple is the lesser of evils.

No need for Apple to quit on this Suite (like Shake) bec the future is so strong.

 

[Boil]

I will give Blender a go whilst I wait for a comprehensive 3D/DCC software suite from Apple...! ;^p

 

[chrfr]

Apple could easily attract 1M new Mac users/buyers globally with this 3D / DCC Suite

1,000,000 x $5,000 average extra revenue per year = $5B

I’m very confident you’re wildly overestimating the size of the market for these products, regardless of platform.

 

[MarkC426]

I’m very confident you’re wildly overestimating the size of the market for these products, regardless of platform.

Yes, when you consider (as stated earlier), a lot of users are on Windows/Linux, so how many would switch platform.
Plus, if all the high end studios are tied into the 'Foundry' workflow, nobody wants to start messing with the current setup, when they have invested money in other tools which may not be available on Mac.

 

[AppleFoundry]

I’m very confident you’re wildly overestimating the size of the market for these products, regardless of platform.

What with the metaverse / VR / NFTs - ginormous new marketplace for 3D / VR movies / XR content?

Even so, I suspect many have simply switched to Linux/Windows already from Mac due to the lack of pro support.

I'm sure there is more than 1M already switched, overall. The future is completely different, and why switch to Mac? Bec they will save thousands on yearly fees for these softwares, and will end up saving money! (not to mention Apple being at the forefront of technology revolution, always a couple of years ahead - who wouldn't want the software to follow the tech? save on energy, etc.)

 

[AppleFoundry]

Yes, when you consider (as stated earlier), a lot of users are on Windows/Linux, so how many would switch platform.
Plus, if all the high end studios are tied into the 'Foundry' workflow, nobody wants to start messing with the current setup, when they have invested money in other tools which may not be available on Mac.

It's not just about high end studios anymore, the next big explosion will be with Indie/home, small/medium studios, freelancers, & just plain hobbyists (if the price is right, many more will want to learn/experiment with their friends).

Similar to the home video/music producers. This is the next trend, a much bigger market.

 

[chrfr]

What with the metaverse / VR / NFTs - ginormous new marketplace for 3D / VR movies / XR content?

Even so, I suspect many have simply switched to Linux/Windows already from Mac due to the lack of pro support.

I'm sure there is more than 1M already switched, overall. The future is completely different, and why switch to Mac? Bec they will save thousands on yearly fees for these softwares, and will end up saving money! (not to mention Apple being at the forefront of technology revolution, always a couple of years ahead - who wouldn't want the software to follow the tech? save on energy, etc.)

Foundry was bought out in 2019 for around $545 million, with an expectation of annual revenue of around $75 million. That’s a pretty brave investment and would make no sense for Apple given that the majority of that income is from Windows and Linux users. Apple has repeatedly demonstrated no interest in supporting non-Apple platforms with its apps so revenue would be substantially lower than $75 million once Apple killed off the primary user base for Foundry’s apps. Apple has ceded this market to Windows and Linux and it would be far too costly for users to switch back to Mac now even if apps were competitive or even comparable in macOS.

 

[GunStrauss]

It's not just about high end studios anymore, the next big explosion will be with Indie/home, small/medium studios, freelancers, & just plain hobbyists (if the price is right, many more will want to learn/experiment with their friends).

Similar to the home video/music producers. This is the next trend, a much bigger market.

And a different market, a market The Foundry is not in, thankfully. Apple (Final Cut and laptop/iMac's), Adobe and Blackmagic covers the marked you're referring to pretty well, and have done for about two to three decades (Blackmagic for a shorter period of time). Nothing new. Remember when DV arrived?

 

[AppleFoundry]

Foundry was bought out in 2019 for around $545 million, with an expectation of annual revenue of around $75 million. That’s a pretty brave investment and would make no sense for Apple given that the majority of that income is from Windows and Linux users. Apple has repeatedly demonstrated no interest in supporting non-Apple platforms with its apps so revenue would be substantially lower than $75 million once Apple killed off the primary user base for Foundry’s apps. Apple has ceded this market to Windows and Linux and it would be far too costly for users to switch back to Mac now even if apps were competitive or even comparable in macOS.

That’s just terrible, more likely they just constantly expect to sell it off every few years at a much higher return (it was sold for $200M before that?).

$75M rev. would be around 50K users? That would still be $250M revenue each year for Apple (at $5K hardware basis - likely these guys spend way more on their hardware, so could be $500M+), if they all switch - i.e. the current case is everyone is *forced to use Linux/Windows* bec. Apple is simply not a good enough option / a priority for the developers (for obvious reasons). BUT Apple is taking performance to the next level, so it’s a different game now in that regard...

The 1M I was suggesting across the whole 3D/DCC Suite (Maxon C4D, etc.) - and do you expect the current numbers to increase or decrease? How many users were there 5-10 years ago compared to today? Entertainment is even bigger now with streaming, Apple is even involved!

It’s not really a big deal for users to switch platforms (Mac is the most easiest to learn, so no re-training or anything). It’s not really a big deal to switch/sell computers (is it?) - in fact Mac is much easier to manage than Windows (which is why many companies have switched such as IBM, who said they are actually saving money), & more secure.

The software alone is more expensive than the computers, £10K for Foundry + £2K fees every year? Apple it would be $500 for the whole Suite (or less), one off payment.

 

[AppleFoundry]

And a different market, a market The Foundry is not in, thankfully. Apple (Final Cut and laptop/iMac's), Adobe and Blackmagic covers the marked you're referring to pretty well, and have done for about two to three decades (Blackmagic for a shorter period of time). Nothing new. Remember when DV arrived?

Even if it's 20 secs animated 3D video (e.g. NFT), or 2:30 music video (2D or VR) - people are going to want what the best in Hollywood are using (and with 3D/VR, deep compositing is very important). They don't have to create 2 hour long epic movies.

Also I'm talking about the whole suite.

 

[AppleFoundry]

And the other thing is everyone you come across goes to Fusion specifically due to price. If the price was the same (or less) every single one of them would likely go back to Nuke(?)

Everyone new would choose Nuke over Fusion, if they had the option $.

 

[AppleFoundry]

Hmm, silenced the crowd!?!?!?

So to sum up:

There should never be Nuke, Katana, & Mari - i.e. the movie industry standards, on the Mac ecosystem.

The prices for all of these very expensive softwares should stay the same, over £1K/year here, £2K/year there (£10K upfront), another grand there (per year), etc. - i.e. ends up costing more than the Macs themselves!

Everyone on Mac should make do with the cheap & free softwares - that will never get them a job in the industry, as it stands.

Everyone else should just go to Windows/Linux - if they want to work in the industry.

Righto. Windows it is...

 

[AppleFoundry]

I think the major issue with Apple/Mac is the users [fanboys / bodyguards] themselves. I've seen it time & time again that no one can criticise them, as if "it's Apple, don't you think they [are God] know everything?". Always, "well I just do this instead" [completely selfish A*ppleHoles]. Major bugs in software that people want fixed & the fanboys come to Apple's 'rescue' > "It's not worth it bec you are in a minority that wants the bug fixed...", I mean how repulsive & disgraceful? Can't you think about others' situations? Then proceed to mock/belittle them bec they can't do the same thing as you have done, "well I just do this, tut tut [superior<]". Righto, good for you - what about others apart from yourself? Same thing when the butterfly keyboard first came out, went on for years due to the fan-[bo]d[y]guards.

I bet some people have voted No just to defend Apple, LOL!? - Apple done the right thing, people were using Linux anyway, haha. Ridiculous. The developer of Shake, someone who actually matters, was heartbroken. Utter disgrace.

And here I was just trying to help Apple do something right, not 1 post liked, just laughed at, belittling, sarcasm. Good on you all Apple elites.

See ya!

 

[Boil]

Everyone on Mac should make do with the cheap & free softwares

I plan on jumping into Blender once Apple releases a M1 Max-powered Mac mini because it is free; Cinema4D is an ongoing subscription, no thanks; Maya & Modo are both not up-to-date for macOS & ASi; I lost my EIAS USB dongle in a move sometime last century...

I really do want to see a comprehensive 3D / DCC suite from Apple at some point though...

If Apple bought out Unity (mainly for the Weta Digital bundle) and offered substantial hardware discounts to game developers...?

The Weta Digital softwares could be ported over to macOS / ASi / Metal (just like I suggested for a similar hypothetical Pixar deal) and Apple could put the resulting suite into work on their AppleTV+ content...!

I bet some people have voted No just to defend Apple, LOL!? - Apple done the right thing, people were using Linux anyway, haha. Ridiculous. The developer of Shake, someone who actually matters, was heartbroken. Utter disgrace.

And here I was just trying to help Apple do something right, not 1 post liked, just laughed at, belittling, sarcasm. Good on you all Apple elites.

Chill, bruh...! ;^p

I voted yes, even though I know it might never really happen; but who knows what Apple might develop on their own...?

I liked all your posts, your dopamine levels should be skyrocketing right now...! ;^p

In retrospect, if Apple did buy up the main players in the macOS 3D / DCC market (Foundry, Maxon, Otoy, sideFX, etc.), it would be similar to Silicon Graphics snapping up software companies in the 1990's...

And Apple has an architecture similar to the SGI O2 & Octane workstations...

Huh, macOS is also Unix-based, much like the Irix operating system Silicon Graphics / SGI used... ;^p

So yeah, the mini in my sig & Blender until Apple makes their move...!

 

[MarkC426]

In retrospect, if Apple did buy up the main players in the macOS 3D / DCC market (Foundry, Maxon, Otoy, sideFX, etc.), it would be similar to Silicon Graphics snapping up software companies in the 1990's...

I really doubt this would happen.....?
But, never say never.

 

[GunStrauss]

I really doubt this would happen.....?
But, never say never.

Apple is not a company able to support these industries. Apple makes a lot of really nice products (turnkey solutions), but they are not a team player for an industry requiring custom integrations, roadmaps and reliability. It would be a completely insane move for Apple to harvest high-end VFX-software companies and products, just to practically kill them off. Most VFX-companies run Linux on custom hardware setups, huge main frames and a lot of in-house developed code and workflows.

Apple products are most often used for low-end work done on Adobe software (that don't run on Linux).

BTW: Shake was most probably (according to my sources within Apple) acquired to gain access to valuable IPR to integrate in FCPX and Motion.

 

[Boil]

Apple should produce a DCC suite of their own:

• Final Cut Pro / Compressor
• Motion / Phenomenon
• Logic Pro / MainStage
• Comprehensive 3D suite
• Unlimited network rendering with macOS / iPadOS control & monitoring
• Tight Sidecar integration for sculpting / painting
• US$1,999
• Maintenance & Support / AppleCare+ / US$199 yearly

 

[MarkC426]

Apple should produce a DCC suite of their own:

• Final Cut Pro / Compressor
• Motion / Phenomenon
• Logic Pro / MainStage
• Comprehensive 3D suite
• Unlimited network rendering with macOS / iPadOS control & monitoring
• Tight Sidecar integration for sculpting / painting
• US$1,999
• Maintenance & Support / AppleCare+ / US$199 yearly

Why.......?
You can then add it to your imaginary signature....

I don't think Apple are interested in this field.
They lean more towards regular consumers (with some options for pros).