iPad Apple or Amazon?

[Rogifan]

The Verge has an interesting article about the Fire and Amazon's business model. It reads a bit too much like Amazon PR but the discussion is interesting nonetheless. Jeff Bezos says It's not about making money off hardware but off content and services. That's essentially the opposite of Apple's model. Can it be sustained though? Amazon's margins are razor thin and there's obviously not a lot of profit in selling other people's content, so you have to make it up in volume.

I guess time will tell if that model works but I do wonder if it could be bad overall by creating an artificially low price that OEM's can't compete with. Amazon is conditioning people to expect tablets for $199. The average consumer not into the details or not frequenting tech sites isn't going to know that Amazon sells its hardware at cost or even a loss. They're going to see the $199 and think anything more expensive than that is a ripoff. How do OEM's Thr don't have a huge content ecosystem compete with that?

http://www.theverge.com/2012/9/7/3298382/amazon-kindle-fire-hd-apple-ipad-tablet-strategy

 

[Mac.World]

The Verge has an interesting article about the Fire and Amazon's business model. It reads a bit too much like Amazon PR but the discussion is interesting nonetheless. Jeff Bezos says It's not about making money off hardware but off content and services. That's essentially the opposite of Apple's model. Can it be sustained though? Amazon's margins are razor thin and there's obviously not a lot of profit in selling other people's content, so you have to make it up in volume.

I guess time will tell if that model works but I do wonder if it could be bad overall by creating an artificially low price that OEM's can't compete with. Amazon is conditioning people to expect tablets for $199. The average consumer not into the details or not frequenting tech sites isn't going to know that Amazon sells its hardware at cost or even a loss. They're going to see the $199 and think anything more expensive than that is a ripoff. How do OEM's Thr don't have a huge content ecosystem compete with that?

http://www.theverge.com/2012/9/7/3298382/amazon-kindle-fire-hd-apple-ipad-tablet-strategy

As I said before, Amazon had an approx loss of 125 million dollars in operating costs last year. They supposedly sold between 3 and 6 million tablets, but they won't say for sure. We do know that very few people that bought the Fire last year actually gave Amazon any money and didn't buy a Prime membership.

And the Verge is no t something I would trust getting any facts from. They constantly put out bullsh#*

 

[Calidude]

I'd rather be a gadget hoarder than a consumer sheep.

The "services" model is why the economy is circling the toilet bowl. We need physical goods, not mindless media.

 

[ucfgrad93]

I think that Amazon has thrown down the gauntlet with these new Kindle Fire HD tablets. Google Play can't match Amazon's selection of music, movies, tv shows, etc. For $299 you get a 8.9" 1920X1200 display, 16GB storage. That is $200 less than what Apple, Samsung, et al. have out there.

 

[Calidude]

I think that Amazon has thrown down the gauntlet with these new Kindle Fire HD tablets. Google Play can't match Amazon's selection of music, movies, tv shows, etc. For $299 you get a 8.9" 1920X1200 display, 16GB storage. That is $200 less than what Apple, Samsung, et al. have out there.

Yeah but is it worth your soul? Is it worth having the thing you bought continue to show you ads? Screw advertisers and screw Amazon's business model. I buy my gadgets so I can use them, not so they can use me.

 

[Rogifan]

As I said before, Amazon had an approx loss of 125 million dollars in operating costs last year. They supposedly sold between 3 and 6 million tablets, but they won't say for sure. We do know that very few people that bought the Fire last year actually gave Amazon any money and didn't buy a Prime membership.

And the Verge is no t something I would trust getting any facts from. They constantly put out bullsh#*

Well I did say this article read like Amazon PR.

 

[ucfgrad93]

Yeah but is it worth your soul? Is it worth having the thing you bought continue to show you ads? Screw advertisers and screw Amazon's business model. I buy my gadgets so I can use them, not so they can use me.

That is up to people to decide for themselves. I've spoken to many people at MobileRead.com who like the ads and think that they are a good deal, from their experience with them on the e-ink readers.

Try not to be such a drama queen. If people choose to buy an Amazon Fire, they haven't sold their soul to Satan.

 

[Rogifan]

I'd rather be a gadget hoarder than a consumer sheep.

The "services" model is why the economy is circling the toilet bowl. We need physical goods, not mindless media.

Ha, Bezos refered to the Fires as services not gadgets. Nice try there Jeff. The ads for me would be a huge turnoff. Even if they're not invasive now who says they won't be in the future? What if you're forced to watch a 15 or 30 second ad to unlock your device? People might be willing to put up with ads on the cheaper Fires but on the $499 and $599 models? No way.

 

[S.B.G]

... Screw advertisers and screw Amazon's business model. I buy my gadgets so I can use them, not so they can use me.

Ironically enough, advertising is what makes the overwhelming majority of the Internet and it's billions of sites free to very low-cost. Without advertising, nearly every website would have a pay wall up in order to get their content. As much as we may dislike ad's on web pages, they are a most necessary thing to have to keep the Internet the way it is. The same holds true for Amazon. A little bit of advertising on their products goes a long way for them. Otherwise, we'd not get some of their products and services at the prices we are now.

 

[Calidude]

That is up to people to decide for themselves. I've spoken to many people at MobileRead.com who like the ads and think that they are a good deal, from their experience with them on the e-ink readers.

Try not to be such a drama queen. If people choose to buy an Amazon Fire, they haven't sold their soul to Satan.

I meant that in a figurative sense. Can you imagine buying an iPad and then having Apple put ads on your lockscreen and homescreen? I'd return it the same day.

 

[ucfgrad93]

I meant that in a figurative sense.

I know what you meant. However, there doesn't need to be such hyperbole in your comments. State your position and be done with it. No need for such theatrics.

Can you imagine buying an iPad and then having Apple put ads on your lockscreen and homescreen? I'd return it the same day.

Congrats. I know it is shocking, but not everyone feels the same way.

 

[Southernboyj]

I'll take an iPad/Nexus 7 anyway over any Kindle... they are made specifically for buying stuff off Amazon, with a little bit of a tablet added on.

 

[Rogifan]

I watched the Amazon keynote and while I applaud Amazon for giving full specs, price and availability at the end of the keynote (take note Microsoft and Nokia), Jeff Bezos is no Steve Jobs (or any other Apple presenter) in the presentation department. Very slow, lots of awkward pauses, and it was obvious he was reading from a teleprompter as you could see his eyes dart there quite frequently. Plus no excitement at all, just the same monotone voice throughout.

I think he needed to pull a Tim Cook and hand the presentation off to someone with more personality.

 

[ixodes]

I'll take an iPad/Nexus 7 anyway over any Kindle... they are made specifically for buying stuff off Amazon, with a little bit of a tablet added on.

iPad... They are made specifically for buying stuff off Apple... Locked to iTunes

Can you see who Amazon is mirroring ?

A well proven business model.

----------

Jeff Bezos is no Steve Jobs

Bezos looked like a clone of Steve, from my vantage point.

 

[Rogifan]

iPad... They are made specifically for buying stuff off Apple... Locked to iTunes

Can you see who Amazon is mirroring ?

A well proven business model.

----------


Bezos looked like a clone of Steve, from my vantage point.

Apple's business model is to make most of their money off hardware, not content. That's the complete opposite of Amazon. Apple is not marketing the iPad as an iTunes service. Bezos said the Kindle Fire was a service not a gadget. They may be similar in the "walled garden" approach but that's about it.

 

[BeardedOrc]

I watched the Amazon keynote and while I applaud Amazon for giving full specs, price and availability at the end of the keynote (take note Microsoft and Nokia), Jeff Bezos is no Steve Jobs (or any other Apple presenter) in the presentation department. Very slow, lots of awkward pauses, and it was obvious he was reading from a teleprompter as you could see his eyes dart there quite frequently. Plus no excitement at all, just the same monotone voice throughout.

I think he needed to pull a Tim Cook and hand the presentation off to someone with more personality.

Lol. I find it funny, and sad, when people decide on products due to people/celebrity endorsing instead of the value of the products itself.

Would Kindle Fire suddenly be a better product if Jobs gave the presentation? No, it just tells you that Jobs was a better salesman

 

[Technarchy]

I think most buyers will find the Amazon user experience unsatisfying and sales will dramatically drop off just as it did with the first Kindle Fire.

Last year we were assured by all the internet experts that the Kindle Fire was a game changer that would force Apple back to the drawing board...not quite. Not even close.

Anyone in the market for a cheap tablet would be far better served by the Nexus 7.

Nothing is appealing about this notion:

Yesterday, Bezos was almost reverent about Amazon's products "aligning" with the needs of the customer. "If someone buys one of our devices and puts it in a desk drawer and never uses it, we don't deserve to make any money." But it's not about making things. It's barely about communicating. It's a device that was built to buy. Amazon is the world's largest store, and with the Kindle Fire HD, Jeff Bezos invites customers to never, ever leave that store.

No thanks. I'll stick with my iPad.

 

[tiiim]

The problem with last year Fire was:

1) a version 1.0 product with obvious flaws
2) US only

This year this has changed so we now might start seeing true sales. The problem is Apple has tons and tons of content and Amazon out of the US lacks a bit more there.

Having said that there is a huge difference in price points so even if the Kindle is not a "iPad killer" it might cause a small bunch of people to see Apple's high pricing and think why? (we know the business model is different but Joe Consumer does not). If no-one disrupts the tablet market like very soon, then the iPad will be heavily cemented in as the winner (some would argue that has already happened, but we'll see)

 

[Jessica Lares]

Locked to Amazon stuff is different to being locked to iOS... I can play all my stuff on just about every device I have. Prime videos on all my computers, even the old... Music on just about every device with no DRM... (and download it too), Android apps on my S2, Kindle Fire, and even the awful Bluestacks if I wanted to. Kindle bought books can easily get their DRM stripped to be used on whatever too.

And honestly, the thing I don't like about iTunes content is that it's extremely HUGE and I can't just stream it off their servers. It's also about the same price as the DVD itself and most of the stuff doesn't even have extras (although they're pushing for it). The same thing is said with music. Amazon had a special a few months ago where they sold like 20 best selling albums of the year for a rock bottom $0.99 each. I would have easily had to pay a little over $200 in taxes for the same thing on iTunes, especially with the tax.

iOS devices are useless for content, you have the beautiful screen, but a little itty bitty hard drive that's good for nothing. Apps however are awesome, and I'd rather fill up an iPad with games, music, productivity apps than try stuffing a movie/music collection into one.

 

[BeardedOrc]

I think most buyers will find the Amazon user experience unsatisfying and sales will dramatically drop off just as it did with the first Kindle Fire.

Last year we were assured by all the internet experts that the Kindle Fire was a game changer that would force Apple back to the drawing board...not quite. Not even close.

Anyone in the market for a cheap tablet would be far better served by the Nexus 7.

Nothing is appealing about this notion:



No thanks. I'll stick with my iPad.

Did anybody say iPad mini?

If it becomes real, you can thank Fire for that...

 

[Technarchy]

Did anybody say iPad mini?

If it becomes real, you can thank Fire for that...

I dont agree. If there really is an iPad Mini it's purpose will be to dominate the education and text book industry. Everyone knows Apple can and would easily corner the market.

It's something no amazon or android tablet has a prayer of doing, and Microsoft is lost in the wilderness.

 

[SeanR1]

I don't understand the hatred for the ads. I have a bunch of free iPad apps that show me ads while I am using the app. At least the ads on the fire aren't in the apps. I'm still sticking with my iPad and hoping for a mini, but I guess I just don't understand the brouhaha.

 

[BeardedOrc]

I dont agree. If there really is an iPad Mini it's purpose will be to dominate the education and text book industry. Everyone knows Apple can and would easily corner the market.

It's something no amazon or android tablet has a prayer of doing, and Microsoft is lost in the wilderness.

What I meant was that, Fire was a game changer, that further reinforced the need for a smaller iPad and forced Apple back to drawing boards and entertain the idea of making iPad mini.

What's stopping iPad to dominate education and textbook industry NOW? What's stopping Apple now to dominate and corner that market when it's "very easy"?

Amazon still is the biggest e-book retailer and Kindle, being platform agnostic, has more users.

 

[sentinelsx]

Meh i don't care if they give me a Fire HD with the best specs ever but having to stare at ads every few minutes. ALready fed ads daily and i try my best to escape them.

The 7 incher while being cheap, is still crap against nexus 7 because of the ad BS.

 

[Rogifan]

Where is the evidence that the Kindle Fire forced Apple to consider a smaller iPad? One, we don't even know for certain we're getting a smaller one. Two, there is no hard sales data to support the theory that Kindle Fire took away sales from the iPad. Amazon has never released sales data, ans even id they did how would we know if those buyers were considering an iPad? Also, that email from Eddy Cue saying Apple should consider doing a smaller iPad was from January of 2011, well before the Kindle Fire existed.