Apple 'Playing Hard-Ball' in Appeal Against UK's Investigation Into Platform Restrictions

[Wildkraut]

I am aware. I also know there is much debate on that bill and with the current political climate, little, if anything will likely to get accomplished.

More or less has been said about EU's DMA and DSA too, and here they are.
We'll see, I'm confident the US OAMA will come.
It might get delayed a bit, but will come in some form.

These kind of acts will roll out around the world, and it will be hard for Apple and Google to navigate through all the individual acts and develop/apply them adequately. Apple will choose the common denominator which is opening it everywhere, just like macOS, anything else will be a productivity killer, overwhelm their devs and upset users, specially there in land of unlimited opportunities.

 

[jlc1978]

These kind of acts will roll out around the world, and it will be hard for Apple and Google to navigate through all the individual acts and develop/apply them adequately, so they will choose the common denominator which is opening it everywhere, just like macOS, anything else will be a productivity killer and overwhelm their devs.

Probably, especially given the size of markets requiring it. I suspect Apple will change their fee structure to charge for items previously included in teh dev fee and cut of sales, to incorporate fees based on d/l, hosting etc. That could win up costing companies like Spotify more just to access the App Store; or make them forgo the App Store entirely and potentially cut into their potential user base.

Apple could, for example, decide any app that has been downloaded more than x times must pay Y to be hosted, plus z per new d/l. Or charge sliding scale fees for developer accounts based on the same metrics. There are a lot of ways to make up for any lost revenue; especially if a company wants to stay on the App Store.

 

[Marshall73]

This is about access and control, governments want access and an end to encrypted communications. Apple and Google won’t play ball, so, hit them in their wallets and weaken the platforms. If the government is interfering it is NEVER about the consumer.

 

[wbeasley]

Just let me install retro game emulators please Apple, I'm sick of jumping through hoops to load them via developer account.

So if someone actually released an emulator and you could buy each game you wanted to run, would you PAY to use it?

Or do you just want hardware access to load any software you want including pirated game code?

There are many individual licenced old games on the AppStore. Own any?

Maybe list the games you want to play...

 

[wbeasley]

Good, hope Apple ends up in more court cases and big monopolies (of all kinds, but tech especially) give the very insipration that leads lawmakes to draft stricter laws and regulations relating to privacy, market position/monopoly, right to repair and planned obsolescence.
They should have listened.

So why havent law makers over the past 100 years made it illegal for car and white goods manufacturers to stop planned obsolescence? Sure you can repair them but often repairs cost so much it eventually becomes (even in short term) uneconomic to do so.

We live in a world where throwing away and cheap products that dont last is the norm.

Why don't they force tv manufacturers to let you install your own operating system?
Why not force consoles to install other games? I'm feeling very tied into my Nintendo Switch - it could play videos from an SD card but they wont let me. Why not? Why should I be hamstrung from using this as I want?

You can name heaps of products where manufacturers control the hardware, repair, part costs and installed code.

If Apple or Google closed their app stores for a day, what would happen?
Users might rise up and vote the overly-protective governments out...

It's not a monopoly. You have choice what hardware and ecosystem you buy into.
You can choose from millions of apps to install.

If Apple is forced to open up, I hope they let you do what you want BUT you flick the switch and cut off from the regular AppStore and sandboxed from standard users. Treat these phones as Android devices.

Then we will see how many people actually want this freedom to install anything.
Legislators are listening to a very small percent of noisy users.
Most of us dont even bother to change ringtones anymore.
That's how little people care about customising their phones: change their wallpapers and theyre happy

 

[I7guy]

Did she get her new Ferrari already? Nevermind!

Anyway, recently there in America a bipartisan bill aka "Open App Markets Act" started to roll, which will render any previous decision made by any judge in this regard invalid, including the one made by Mrs. Yvonne Gonzalez Rogers.

The Open App Markets bill moves out of the Senate Judiciary Committee

The recent manager's amendment would provide needed regulatory oversight for both antitrust enforcement and privacy and security for mobile apps, but would not create the national privacy law that advocates are seeking, which seems to be stuck in congressional limbo, Mark MacCarthy writes

www.brookings.edu

Open App Markets Act - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/senate-bill/2710/text

Just for your information!

It has to pass of course.

 

[Wildkraut]

I fully expect the EU to legislate themselves into harms way. They are really good at blurring the line of democracy. I just hope that they don’t erase it.

As I’ve said in several other posts, I think a happy medium would be for Apple to allow web based downloads. You want an App Store? Build your own or have people download your App from your website. This accomplishes a dual benefit: 1. Those who pay Apple a commission get the advertising, support and payment system that the App Store is known for. Additionally, many people, like myself, would prefer downloading the “Apple Approved” version (even at a higher price).

Of course Apple would loose out on Apps like Microsoft and Adobe from companies with dozens of software engineers who can build an App store to rival Apple’s, but most Apps would still rely on the App Store.

The EU and North America are to date one of the most democratic continents/unions out there, it's quasi a neck-and-neck race.

If you take a closer look at North America, yes it has a slightly better Democracy Index Value, but just because of Canada. USA itself has a flawed democracy, and is the one that drags the North America stats down.
USA alone is below the EU when it comes to democracy.

I find it remarkable that the EU, who has multiple countries with a flawed democracy, which is much harder to fix due to country and cultural differences between these countries, is having a neck-and-neck democracy race with a 2 country continent and surpasses the USA. The Digital Markets Act and Digital Services Act are exactly one of those things why the EU is above the USA when it comes to democracy.

I'm in Germany with a full democracy. 😜
Just to make clear, I have nothing against the US, love it, and I also have family there, a great country despite it's flawed democracy. 😁


So don't overrate the US democracy, nor is the EU democracy to be overrated.

Anyway, the AppStore will stay, just like the Google AppStore still exist, despite Android's side-loading capabilities.

The Economist Democracy Index - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[SFjohn]

Tim Cook’s coffee cup…

View attachment 2146193

That would be Steve Jobs coffee cup… 😉

 

[Wildkraut]

Yeah… if you ask average Americans about the rights we have vs. the restrictions of the EU, I would saw the index is flawed.

I have my own set of questions that is much less vague than “influence of foreign governments on elections” which most people don’t know the truth of.

Just my thoughts. I would never want to live in Europe. Maybe England or Australia but never the EU.

There are countries in the EU i also would never like to live, just like there are states in the US I would never like to live. heh

 

[SFjohn]

This is in no way surprising. Governments around the world want access to ALL the data on your phones. Apple is doing everything they legally can to keep data privacy in the hands of its users. I’m rooting for Apple, if you don’t like it buy Android! 👍🏻

 

[macfacts]

This is just an investigation and Apple's response is you're not allowed to investigate us this long. Lmao.

 

[Pezimak]

This is in no way surprising. Governments around the world want access to ALL the data on your phones. Apple is doing everything they legally can to keep data privacy in the hands of its users. I’m rooting for Apple, if you don’t like it buy Android! 👍🏻

No, they are not. They more information on you then you’ll ever know without needing your phone. Your entire life’s history is on a government database of one kind or another. And that's a fact.

Employment history.
Tax history.
Driving license history.
Credit rating and financial history.
Benefits history.

And so on and on.

 

[TracesOfArsenic]

When did people start typing like this? I see it a lot now on social media and it’s absolutely ridiculous.

Been around for a while. The origin is a Spongebob meme and it basically means whatever is said in the alternating captial letters text is nonsensical/idiotic.

 

[TracesOfArsenic]

Agree 100% Chrome already has a big majority. Safari is the only non Chromium based browser with significant market share. I wish Firefox had more but it doesn’t. If native Chrome is allowed on iOS it will reach IE6 levels of market share.

I'm anti-Chrome but if Chrome is the leading browser without ANY favouritism (like IE/Edge and especially Safari) then to the victor go the spoils. If it's an open browser market it means everybody has to compete on the same terms. That's an environment Apple doesn't want to compete on because they've lost their touch with software and now rely on the walls that 'lock' users in to using theirs.

 

[d686546s]

Just my thoughts. I would never want to live in Europe. Maybe England or Australia but never the EU.

Ah, Australia, that great European nation.

Anyway, I'll say two things:

I'm pretty sure the average American knows just as much about American 'rights' vs European 'restrictions' as the other way around: next to nothing. I haven't looked at that index in a great level of detail, but I'm fairly convinced that the average person is not the right source to check whether it's accurate or not.

Second, it feels like this discussion is getting slightly off track.

 

[d686546s]

Of course England is in Europe. I was referring to the EU but I agree that the discussion is not about which countries have more / less democracy.

All English people of course ride their kangaroos to work.

The point was that the EU appears to be the governmental body most likely to promulgate legislation that may have unintended consequences.

Based on what?

 

[SoldOnApple]

So if someone actually released an emulator and you could buy each game you wanted to run, would you PAY to use it?

Or do you just want hardware access to load any software you want including pirated game code?

There are many individual licenced old games on the AppStore. Own any?

Maybe list the games you want to play...

I already own all the cartridges I want to play. I've backed up the ROM images from the cartridges myself.

Though if Nintendo did offer those same games for sale on the App Store I probably would buy them. I've already bought most of these games multiple times over the years.

The games I want to play are Sim City for the SNES, Mario All Stars, Chrono Trigger (which is on the App Store and I have already bought, and I own it on PC/DS/SNES/PSX). The SNES version of Harvest Moon.

 

[lovehateapple]

When does apple NOT "play hard ball" when sticking up for its own self interest?

 

[Wildkraut]

So if someone actually released an emulator and you could buy each game you wanted to run, would you PAY to use it?

Or do you just want hardware access to load any software you want including pirated game code?

There are many individual licenced old games on the AppStore. Own any?

Maybe list the games you want to play...

Pirated? Get it from the archive.org, they have an official DMCA exemption for vintage software, just like a normal library. Tons of Mame Roms there. Nothing illegal here, might be a gray area in some countries, but still not illegal.
E.g. here in Germany you can even create backup copies of your stuff and dump roms of cartridges.

I wouldn’t say that emulating is more against the law and harmful than how Apple is acting with their anti-competitive and tax circumventing tactics.

 

[Unregistered 4U]

Don't create a monopoly and you will be fine as long as they insist on that.

Don’t allow a monopoly from day one and companies will understand clearly what’s expected to do business in the UK. I mean, Apple didn’t “sneak” and create the iPhone, then “sneak” and provided an OS for it, and then “sneak” and put it on sale in shops and then “sneak” and created a programming environment for it, and then “sneak” and created an App Store and then “sneak” and allowed developers in the UK to create apps to publish on that store. The UK government saw EVERYTHING that Apple was doing and were perfectly fine with it, signing off on each thing they wanted to do. They could have said, “Nope, no iPhone in the UK, we’re sure that’s not a thing our citizens would like.” and we wouldn’t be here.

 

[webkit]

Take the top two competitors in any field and - hey! presto! - it's a 'duopoly'...

No, not typically. For the top two competitors in a market to be considered to a duopoly, they (together) generally have to control a significant portion of that market. If, for example, there are 20 players in a market and the top two have something like 8% and 6% (14% combined) of the market, they wouldn't likely be considered a duopoly. However, if the top two in the field had something like 45% and 35% (80% combined) then they would likely be considered a duopoly.

 

[jlc1978]

This is just an investigation and Apple's response is you're not allowed to investigate us this long. Lmao.

If the rules specify time limits then yes that is a reason to cancel the investigation if the government exceeds it.

 

[Naraxus]

The EU and North America are to date one of the most democratic continents/unions out there, it's quasi a neck-and-neck race.
View attachment 2146438

If you take a closer look at North America, yes it has a slightly better Democracy Index Value, but just because of Canada. USA itself has a flawed democracy, and is the one that drags the North America stats down.
USA alone is below the EU when it comes to democracy.
View attachment 2146436

I find it remarkable that the EU, who has multiple countries with a flawed democracy, which is much harder to fix due to country and cultural differences between these countries, is having a neck-and-neck democracy race with a 2 country continent and surpasses the USA. The Digital Markets Act and Digital Services Act are exactly one of those things why the EU is above the USA when it comes to democracy.

I'm in Germany with a full democracy. 😜
Just to make clear, I have nothing against the US, love it, and I also have family there, a great country despite it's flawed democracy. 😁


So don't overrate the US democracy, nor is the EU democracy to be overrated.

Anyway, the AppStore will stay, just like the Google AppStore still exist, despite Android's side-loading capabilities.

The Economist Democracy Index - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The US isn't a democracy

 

[JapanApple]

Might end with Tim Cook behind the bars if they don't comply, but probably more with a sales stop in whole EU and UK. Maybe even in the US, laws are cooking, Cook will get hot cooked.
Apple is dumb, they are just feeding the lawyers, it's inevitable Apple will have to open up around the world

That being said, Apple hasn't become what they are from nothing. From the standpoint of your comment, hackers want this to happen. But those that have been there done that with hacking, I want a safe environment, not a free for all. This might cause it.

 

[genovelle]

Don't create a monopoly and you will be fine as long as they insist on that. People defending Apple by saying "yOu CaN jUsT uSe AnDrOiD" does not understand that a monopoly is not about having other options.
It is about a player eating into the free market by being so big (either by choice or not). It, therefore, has to take on a more considerable responsibility that goes outside regular business expectations/requirements.

Just look at Google. When your company name becomes a verb for "Searching online", you are getting to that point. Apple is getting there too.

How do you have a monopoly with services you allow other
Companies to use for profit and for free if you are not directly profiting from their APIs or attempting to use their marketing for free as in this case.