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Starting at $10k?! You're already paying $7k for a MacBook Pro with 18 CPU, 40 GPU, 16 NE, 128 GB. It goes over $10k with the highest capacity SSD. And that's on a Max--not even an Ultra.

An Extreme system would likely *start* well north of $20k. Think more like $50k.

My estimate of Apple's cost for the physical M3-Ultra chip is somewhere between $700-$1000. Take the high number and double it to get the cost of an Extreme chip: $2000. The current price of a M3-Ultra Mac Studio 96GB/1TB is $6,800. An Extreme chip would add an addition $1000+margin. Assume a high margin of 65%. Just on the price and margin, I would expect the base price of an M3-Extreme Mac Studio today would be: 6800+1650=8,450 dollars. Now, they could charge more based on the value to the consumer of having twice as many GPUs. But they are capped on how much more value that gives due to Nvidia's superior GPU performance. The real cost is the memory. Demand has pushed those prices up. A refurbed 512GB M3-Ultra Mac Studio with 1TB is around $15k. That means 15000-6800=8,200 is what you are paying for the additional memory. If you increase that to a 16TB SSD, the refurb price goes up to ~$21k. So that's 21000-15000=6,000 for the additional SSD space. Put all of that together, if Apple had an M3-Extreme today, a brand new 512GB M3-Extreme with 16TB SSD would be approximately 8450+8200+6000=22,650.

The M5 uses the 3rd generation of TSMC 3nm process. So, one would not expect to see significant price increases due a more expensive manufacturing process. Add some for inflation, my guess is a 512GB 16TB M5-Ultra Mac Studio will be priced around $22,999, with most of that increase being the price of memory. There's no way an Extreme version would reach $50k unless they more than doubled the memory.
 
Starting at $10k?! You're already paying $7k for a MacBook Pro with 18 CPU, 40 GPU, 16 NE, 128 GB. It goes over $10k with the highest capacity SSD. And that's on a Max--not even an Ultra.

An Extreme system would likely *start* well north of $20k. Think more like $50k.
Assuming Apple maintains approximately the historical pace of improvement from the A4 through the M5 era here's my forecast for when a device could reach the capabilities of the hypothetical M5 Extreme described.
Mac Pro
Mac Studio
MacBook Pro 16"
MacBook Air 15"
iPad Pro
iPhone Pro Max
Apple Vision-class wearable
[td]
Device
[/td]
[td]
Earliest Plausible
[/td][td]
More Likely
[/td]
[td]
2028–2031​
[/td][td]
2030​
[/td]​
[td]
2030–2033​
[/td][td]
2032​
[/td]​
[td]
2034–2038​
[/td][td]
2036​
[/td]​
[td]
2048–2055​
[/td][td]
2052​
[/td]​
[td]
2042–2048​
[/td][td]
2045​
[/td]​
[td]
2052–2060​
[/td][td]
2056​
[/td]​
[td]
2045–2055​
[/td][td]
2050​
[/td]​
History offers an interesting comparison.

A 2006 Mac Pro had:
  • Dual Xeons
  • 8 cores
  • 32 GB RAM
  • Hundreds of watts
By 2026 my fanless MBA 15" M5 exceeds it in many everyday workloads while using a fraction of the power.

That's a 2 decade transition from workstation-class capability to an ultraportable laptop.

Applying a similar pattern it's reasonable to expect:
  • MBP: ~10 years after the hypothetical M5 Extreme.
  • iPad Pro: ~15 years.
  • MacBook Air: ~20–25 years.
  • iPhone Pro Max: ~25–30 years.

 
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Assuming Apple maintains approximately the historical pace of improvement from the A4 through the M5 era here's my forecast for when a device could reach the capabilities of the hypothetical M5 Extreme described.

Device
Mac Pro
Mac Studio
MBP 16"
MBA 15"
iPad Pro
iPhone Pro Max
Apple Vision

[th]
Earliest Plausible

[/th][th]
More Likely

[/th]
[td]
2028–2031

[/td][td]
2030

[/td]
[td]
2030–2033

[/td][td]
2032

[/td]
[td]
2034–2038

[/td][td]
2036

[/td]
[td]
2048–2055

[/td][td]
2052

[/td]
[td]
2042–2048

[/td][td]
2045

[/td]
[td]
2052–2060

[/td][td]
2056

[/td]
[td]
2045–2055

[/td][td]
2050

[/td]​


History offers an interesting comparison.

A 2006 Mac Pro had:
  • Dual Xeons
  • 8 cores
  • 32 GB RAM
  • Hundreds of watts
By 2026 my fanless MBA 15" M5 exceeds it in many everyday workloads while using a fraction of the power.

That's a 2 decade transition from workstation-class capability to an ultraportable laptop.

Applying a similar pattern it's reasonable to expect:
  • MBP: ~10 years after the hypothetical M5 Extreme.
  • iPad Pro: ~15 years.
  • MacBook Air: ~20–25 years.
  • iPhone Pro Max: ~25–30 years.


That table ain't tabling... ;^p
 
My estimate of Apple's cost for the physical M3-Ultra chip is somewhere between $700-$1000. Take the high number and double it to get the cost of an Extreme chip: $2000.
This assumes any 4x Max design or 2x Ultra design (not the same thing) simply doubles the Ultra cost, but we do not know that. It is possible, perhaps likely, that the M3 quad design required an additional layer of advanced packaging that is not accounted for in the cost of the M3 Ultra.

Nvidia’s Grace Blackwell may be the closest parallel to what Apple was doing. It's not the same (no matter what Apple was doing), but it combines something similar to Ultra Fusion in the Blackwell GPUs, and then adds an additional layer of advanced packaging in order to integrate the Grace CPU (not to mention memory) into the GB 200/300 Superchips. The pricing structure reflects this engineering feat and the Superchips are basically 4x the cost, not 2x. So I think the cost of an M3 "Extreme" that met Apple's requirements might have turned out to be closer to 4x the M3 Ultra, not 2x.

That additional cost could have then made the product Apple had in mind unfeasible, at least at that time. I think it will come, probably with M7 and TSMC A16 (N2P with Super Power Rail). Apple has a robust product evaluation process, especially when it comes to macOS, and something made to through to the point that they were trying to engineer it. I don't think that product is dead, but I recognize all the evidence says otherwise.
 
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My estimate of Apple's cost for the physical M3-Ultra chip is somewhere between $700-$1000. Take the high number and double it to get the cost of an Extreme chip: $2000.

That is pretty flawed. Apple has used TSMC InFo-LSI packaging technology to compose the Ultra. That process is limited by a reticle size. The ~400mm^2 Max dies barely fit that limit with paired. 4 of those are pretty certainly not going to fit.
If switch to TSMC CoWoS-LSI variants there are two problems. One, more expensive. Two, a substantive number of AI vendors are all trying to use the same process ( TSMC ran out of capacity last. year and even with new stuff coming on line there is not much of any excess capacity. ). So it isn't getting cheaper even if can get a wafer start slot. It is going into one of the major "AI bubble" choke points. It is a bidding war that is driving costs up; not down.

Going to a more expensive packaging that is critcially scarce isn't going to result in linear cost increases. Sticking with the packaging tech that the AI bubble folks are not fighting over is likely a more affordable path.

Secondly, the interconnect problem is also twice as 'big'. Bandwidth between just two dies is not necessarily sufficient to keeping up with swapping data with two more dies ( now communicating with 3 instead of 1. ). That is more than a 2x increase. If keep the max bandiwidth 'flat' and 3x the load ... performance increase isn't going to be linear either. If do more than probably shifting to a different die (with more connections) and now have decoupled from the shared costs of just reusing the 'Max" die used in volume MBP systems. Not going to be 'just linear' increase there either. ( have a new unique die and order (or two ) low units volume to defray unique chip development costs over. Needs it own masks, testing, etc. )

Even if use the same dies with just 1 Ultrafusion connector , they would likely need a ' interconnect switch' chip that routes the one connector to which every of the other three dies the traffic was suppose to flow toward. So now would have yet another die to construct and weave into the overall package. That isn't going to be linear since it doesn't even exist in the other set up. ( InFo-LSI there is a static routing bridge die. but this is very substantively different. Going to have to 'route' and 'switch' traffice and likely over a longer distance so probably will have to amplify signales along the way also. )


The M5 uses the 3rd generation of TSMC 3nm process. So, one would not expect to see significant price increases due a more expensive manufacturing process. Add some for inflation, my guess is a 512GB 16TB M5-Ultra Mac Studio will be priced around $22,999, with most of that increase being the price of memory. There's no way an Extreme version would reach $50k unless they more than doubled the memory.

The plain M5 Max isn't just a single die anymore either. That too is already a package. It is unclear what the M5 Ultra looks like. Could be a package on yet another package. The Ultra SoC itself may not track the older Ultra prices.

Doubling that up results in a package on package on package ? That wouldn't be linear for reasons outlined above.

If spinning can use the raw Max chiplets to use on building blocks on a bigger/wider substrate , remember the "Ultrafusion" connector present would used to hook the two 'halves' together. There isn't any 'external' connector for going to different group. So no have even more blocks to hook together. Instead of 4 very chunky Max dies. Now have 8 dies that need connection and each chiplet only has one connector. Taht means an even bigger router/switch chip to 'glue' all this back together again as one SoC.


Apple doesn't particularly need something that is 'twice as big" as an Ultra. Something with just incrementally enough more CPU/GPU cores would suffice. An incrementally bigger GPU+Memory Controller chiplet coupled to the same CPU chiplet (combo) would work. )
 
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The point in being a trillion-dollar company is to return value to the shareholder. So, if all the private equity, mutual funds, and managed retirement accounts which own Apple want it to be indulgent, then it should happen. Hint: It'll never happen with the current set of owners.
That applies to every company, though, including the automotive industry which does find value in creating supercars.

Not everything Apple does is about the bottom line. They could save a ton of money buy using non-recycled packaging or caring less about reclaiming aluminum and rare earth minerals. Those solar panels on top of 1 Infinite Loop will probably never pay for themselves.
 
People in general are more enamored with cellular phones, though. There was a time in the past when folks wanted a powerful computer, but the vast majority simply aren’t interested in something that will sit on a desk or not be used in as many places as their phone. They’re FAR more likely to see a folding phone as aspirational, then buy the base model than they are to care at all about a computer of any kind. The market has moved on even if Siracusa hasn’t. 🙂
The entire point of what I was saying is that it's a valuable niche market. Saying “Apple shouldn't make supercars because most people by phones” is like saying Porsche shouldn’t make souped up 911s because most of their customers buy Cayennes.
 
The issue for Apple using the Mac Pro as a "halo supercar" product is it was a Volkswagen Phaeton, not a Bugatti Veyron.

It had a better design and used nicer materials than workstations offered by HPE, Dell and Lenovo in the same market space, but those three OEMs had workstation product lines that actually scaled to "Veyron" levels, where Apple only offered one option. And most workstation buyers' value equation was strongly tilted toward performance and TCO, not design and materials aesthetics.
 
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Not everything Apple does is about the bottom line. They could save a ton of money buy using non-recycled packaging or caring less about reclaiming aluminum and rare earth minerals. Those solar panels on top of 1 Infinite Loop will probably never pay for themselves.

Bottom Line or "This quarter's results". Long term using sustainable materials will probably cost Apple less money; not more. Same with an a less out of control environment. That will likley save Apple money in "Act of nature" destruction costs long term.

Apple isn't solely catering to short term outlook stockholders. Longer term folks these are not really a disconnect.
 
It's just occurred to me that if Apple is (overly) concerned with The Environment and unable or unwilling to procure enough build capacity to release products in a timely manner, perhaps they should simply sell the MacOS and iOS to people who are willing and able to build the devices they desire, with whatever components they desire. This would include making up with NVIDIA and Intel. It would certainly save a lot of performative hand-wringing.
 
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It's just occurred to me that if Apple is (overly) concerned with The Environment and unable or unwilling to procure enough build capacity to release products in a timely manner,

There is not much of a 'timely manner' involved here. A large part of the problem is that OpenAI went to the two largest memory vendors and bought everything that didn't already have somebody's name on it. Not AI specific stuff. Any wafer for anything that didn't have a name one it. Bought billions of memory and doesn't really design/build any substantively shipping hardware at all. It is mainly a leverage move over the vendors who do hardware that they can use to squeeze to holding onto the bulk of the AI hype train. I suspect they also hoped that with higher margins the memory vendors would more aggressively build more factories faster. Their inexperience probably lead them to vastly underestimate the memory vendors fear of the 'bust' part of the cycle. Higher margins won't make them move faster. More regular , longer term commitments might alienate fears; not reckless spending , new money manipulating markets.

So RAM and NAND have become closer to a game of 'music chairs'. Largely players now buy stuff because otherwise someone else may come in and randomly buy up the open supply,.

Apple "procure enough build capacity" ? Apple has no direct build capacity. Apple doesn't really make anything. They design stuff; but directly make practically nothing.

Where Apple got 'caught with their pants down' is that they were mainly engaged on shorter term contracts trying to capture the downside ore lower margins for the memory vendors. Most of the other folks buying memory at large scale also need to turn a profit. Few are trying to buy memory so they make dramatically less money.

Apple themselves were pushing the OpenAI is forever king kong of AI hype train so why would OpenAI turn around and stab one of Apple's major profit centers in the back? Whoops.

If Apple was the only system vendor struggling to get enough memory at lower costs then "unable" or "unwilling" would be more applicable. Nobody really is. That rogue OpenAI is being used to reshulffle the deck in a few places to make it appear a few vendors are not having a problem , but is more 'show' than truth. The component market is in perturbed state for everyone. Money can't buy chips today that don't exist.


perhaps they should simply sell the MacOS and iOS to people who are willing and able to build the devices they desire, with whatever components they desire.

that would actually be an even worse state. Windows market hasn't been immune to the RAM/NAND-apocalypse. Decoupled OS isn't make a difference there at all. Smaller, already thin margin vendors are collapsing. Surface prices are up higher than the other Windows vendors to push the price umbrella up.

Similar situation in Android. low budget phone vendors are getting crushed. the net sales of phone is going to go down for a while.

This would include making up with NVIDIA and Intel. It would certainly save a lot of performative hand-wringing.

Apple and Nvidia are largely chasing two substantively different markets. There is little for them to "make up" over. Nvidia did as much to blow up that relationship. Unless Nvidia would radically change their business practices Apple is not getting back into a relationship with them.

Intel x86 ... that is a joke. Intel would actually have to have something better than what Apple has to even consider that. Intel has aporximately zero influence over RAM and NAND market pricing. There is nothing at all they would bring to that problem.

intel Fab ... Apple's wafers/chips from TSMC are not the bottleneck. Intel packaging might be an answer to TSMC CoWoS-LSI production limitations, but that probably isn't as much of an 'extreme' bottleneck than the cost of the finished package. Intel isn't going to make the packaging cheaper. Might get more expensive.
 
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It's just occurred to me that if Apple is (overly) concerned with The Environment and unable or unwilling to procure enough build capacity to release products in a timely manner, perhaps they should simply sell the MacOS and iOS to people who are willing and able to build the devices they desire, with whatever components they desire. This would include making up with NVIDIA and Intel. It would certainly save a lot of performative hand-wringing.
wake up nineties kids, Nirvana and Smashing Pumpkins are topping the charts, Spielberg is shocking at the cinematic thriller Jurassic Park, and Apple is licensing their operating systems to third parties and it's totally rad

 
wake up nineties kids, Nirvana and Smashing Pumpkins are topping the charts, Spielberg is shocking at the cinematic thriller Jurassic Park, and Apple is licensing their operating systems to third parties and it's totally rad


My first purchased Mac was from Power Computing...
  • Power Tower Pro
  • 225MHz 604e CPU
  • 64MB RAM
  • 2GB SCSI HDD
  • ixMicro TwinTurbo GPU w/8MB VRAM
 
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Apple doesn't particularly need something that is 'twice as big" as an Ultra. Something with just incrementally enough more CPU/GPU cores would suffice. An incrementally bigger GPU+Memory Controller chiplet coupled to the same CPU chiplet (combo) would work. )

True, they do not need the Extreme. It depends on how they want to compete in the on-device-inference market. If WWDC is an indication, they are pushing a tower of Studios hooked together with RDMA. That works with MLX because it splits across the width of the tensor and requires lower data exchange than pipelining. A single Extreme machine with 768GB or more would provide friction against that strategy. There's no telling how this will play out because there are multiple factors affecting the milieu, including global economics and international defense politics.
 
This is Mark Gurman we’re talking about so as the complimentary truck of Salt is unloaded let me just say this sounds just about right for what the Mac Pro used to be
 
Apple doesn't particularly need something that is 'twice as big" as an Ultra. Something with just incrementally enough more CPU/GPU cores would suffice. An incrementally bigger GPU+Memory Controller chiplet coupled to the same CPU chiplet (combo) would work. )
The thing is, the Ultra is made up of two Max dies connected by a "silicon interposer" called Apple UltraFusion. The UltraFusion is capable of linking four Max dies, which is why the rumors of a "twice as big as Ultra" Extreme chip exist in the first place.

Your plan of an "incrementally bigger" chip would be a larger undertaking, because you'd be designing an entirely new chip, even if it was an evolution of an existing design. A doubled Ultra chip would effectively be "free" from an engineering standpoint. The problem is that nobody knows what the market is like, and any failure rates at the fab (it's never zero) would be hugely expensive.
 
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The thing is, the Ultra is made up of two Max dies connected by a "silicon interposer" called Apple UltraFusion. The UltraFusion is capable of linking four Max dies, which is why the rumors of a "twice as big as Ultra" Extreme chip exist in the first place.

Errr who openly stated that a single UltraFusion connector was capable of linking four dies?? There are lots hand wave Rube Goldberg proposal that slap alot of "miracle occurs here" magic that claim it could possibly work. However, most just generally sweep substantive problems with their 'solution' under the rug. I've seen most of these 'rumors'.

When the Ultra M1 came out there were more than a few grumbles that there was non-linear performance increase. That is just with one connector between two dies. Add 3 more dies and 3 more bottlenecks you think it is going to get better scaling? It probably won't.

Back in the orginal rumors there were
Jade C ( eventually M1 )
Jade C-chop ( eventually M1 Pro )
Jade 2C ( Max and Ultra )
Jade 4C ( rumored extreme)

Jade and Jade C-chop were not the same die at all. Same with Jade 2C (it has very high design overlap with Jade C-chop). . So why is Jade 4C necessary the indicative of being the exact same die as Jade 2C.

All can pull away from that is that Apple stuffed some die dies together. The necessity of Max really is not there at all. And the performance evidence of just doing two is indicative that very specific interface won't scale much further. (Make no mistake is a very significant achievement to 'glue' those two together and get almost invisible NUMA impacts and more than decent performance. But zero evidence that there was gobs of latent unused bandwidth there. )

The reality is that the basic Max type die is not a particularly good 'chiplet' . It is very chunky and once weave in the placement issues with the Memory models very awkward to scale past that one interposer connector without taking some lumps on performance (and NUMA transparency).

Your plan of an "incrementally bigger" chip would be a larger undertaking, because you'd be designing an entirely new chip,

Aha... if the 4 chip solution always was yet another die design therein lies the problem.

Frankly doing an incrementally bigger chiplet isn't a big problem. Apple already did that with the M1 Pro and M1 Max. The Max was designed to be a bit bigger. And yes the Max was a bit more expensive than than the Pro . It is not the case of whether it is going to be an more expensive chip to make it is a matter of controlling how much more expensive. Because spinning out of control on costs and/or ruining Perf/$ is a major show stopper.

If have split the Max into a chiplets can reuse one of those in multiple pairings.
CPU-I/O chiplet + mini GPU chiplet
CPU-I/O chiplet + full GPU chiplet
CPU-I/O chiplet + too big for laptop GPU chiplet ( Ultra )
CPU-I/O chiplet + full GPU + full GPU ( more than Ultra but probably too big for Mac Studio )
[ and possibly CPU-I/O chipset + full GPU + CPU-I/O chipset ]

three products all using the same CPU chiplet ( so shared volume cost savings into the MBP market)

The major problem would have been to saddle the chip to just the Mac Pro with dramatically low unit volumes.

If do an even bigger functional decomposition of the I/O from the CPU. If don't have the 'too chunk' chiplet then can get more shared reuse across a wider set of SoC products.

Once break out of the mindset that needs to only have a chunky, monolithic "Max' chip optimized for laptops there are more options. But that is entirely not what the M1-M4 where. So "Extreme" coupled to that mindset made less and less the more Apple showed the M1-M4 progressions.


even if it was an evolution of an existing design. A doubled Ultra chip would effectively be "free" from an engineering standpoint. The problem is that nobody knows what the market is like, and any failure rates at the fab (it's never zero) would be hugely expensive.

Nobody knows what the market is? Isn't there a whole department inside of Apple called "Marketing". Nobody in that group has any clue nor spends any time researching what the market demands are? I suspect the folks who work on 'spin' and 'branding' are in that group to and likely are a bit clueless, but nobody in the whole department? Probably not.

Perfectly accurate insight into the market future? No. However, no knowledge at all as the what the market is? Somebody isn't doing their job at multiple levels of the organization.

More likely Apple got some 'educational' lessons out of doing the Extreme. Probably leads to a better mindsets toward approaching doing a chiplet deliberate design. Also probably helped flush out what are currently doing with AI server chip.

The real problem was the notion of the Extreme was Apple doing a SoC that would be just used in only one product. The R1 in the Vision Pro is a similar boat anchor drag on cost management. ( I'm sure there was some hand waving Apple Car R1 excuse that faded away with time. )

To be blunt I don't thin Apple has a really good handle on the problem of churning the Max chip of the MBP 14"/16" into the trash can every 12 months either. So not particularly surprising not M6 Pro/Max in addition to no Ultra that generation.
 
Jade and Jade C-chop were not the same die at all. Same with Jade 2C (it has very high design overlap with Jade C-chop). . So why is Jade 4C necessary the indicative of being the exact same die as Jade 2C.

Nobody said it was "necessary", but it is a perfectly reasonable guess that it was Apple's hope/plan to use the same Jade dies for 2C and 4C. Maybe in a couple decades we'll find out how close the M* Quadra got to being released.
 
Errr who openly stated that a single UltraFusion connector was capable of linking four dies?

Not a single connector, but MajinBu did show evidence that Apple had developed an UltraFusion connector that worked along the vertical axis of two Max dies. When combined with the horizontal UltraFusion connector used to link to Max dies into a single Ultra die, this would in theory allow four Max dies to be connected in a square with a cross-shaped UltraFusion connector.


Back in the orginal rumors there were
Jade C ( eventually M1 )
Jade C-chop ( eventually M1 Pro )
Jade 2C ( Max and Ultra )
Jade 4C ( rumored extreme)

Jade and Jade C-chop were not the same die at all. Same with Jade 2C (it has very high design overlap with Jade C-chop). So why is Jade 4C necessary the indicative of being the exact same die as Jade 2C?

Per Marc Gurman in a Bloomberg article from 2021-05-18, the M1 Max was "Jade-C" and the M1 Pro was "Jade-C chop" as it was (functionally) an M1 Max with half of the GPU cores "chopped off". "Jade-2C" was the code-name for the M1 Ultra as it was to M1 Max connected via UltraFusion. Gurman did not mention the code name for the base M1, but Jonny Evans referred to it as "Tonga" in ComputerWorld on 2020-10-27. And while I cannot find a reference for "Jade-4C", it would fit the convention for four M1 Max connected via two UltraFusion connectors.
 
Not a single connector, but MajinBu did show evidence that Apple had developed an UltraFusion connector that worked along the vertical axis of two Max dies. When combined with the horizontal UltraFusion connector used to link to Max dies into a single Ultra die, this would in theory allow four Max dies to be connected in a square with a cross-shaped UltraFusion connector.

Can't both add a UltraFusion connector across one of the verticlar axes and still be the same die. If add a fusion connector there than have tossed out was was on the edge just consumed.

Per Marc Gurman in a Bloomberg article from 2021-05-18, the M1 Max was "Jade-C" and the M1 Pro was "Jade-C chop" as it was (functionally) an M1 Max with half of the GPU cores "chopped off". "Jade-2C" was the code-name for the M1 Ultra as it was to M1 Max connected via UltraFusion. Gurman did not mention the code name for the base M1, but Jonny Evans referred to it as "Tonga" in ComputerWorld on 2020-10-27.
Sorry I misremembered the M1 being there. But that is really worse when "Jade-2C" is a package not a die. Which means the codenames are somewhat more so about packages and not the dies. The Jade-C sometimes was Jade-1C. I see where folks walked the 1C , 2C into the 4C . But once the pictures of the full Max die came out that mapping was whacked.

And Apple photoshopping the UltraFusion connector out of the first Max die shot and then 'delight and surprise' on the Ultra reveal. On the M3 generation it appears they did do a separate 'connector' and 'no connector' die when process costs and size were more of a problem. ( the same general technique can use the 'chop' the Max down to a Pro could be used to 'chop' off the Ultrafusion connector only. Each chop is a different die. )
 
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