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ReneeReader

macrumors newbie
Dec 23, 2011
7
2
I use an iPhone 4S for the purpose of playing music on my wired speakers. Replaced the battery some time ago. You should probably always keep an eye on your battery powered devices. I’d rather use it like normal and replace the battery when required then shelve it for longer periods of time. I used to collect iPods which I do miss, but I’m glad I don’t have to deal with the batteries anymore.
Hmm I think I still have an old iPod around that I’d better recycle. Orange, of course.

And come to think of it I still have an iPhone 4S! I imagined i would use it as a travel phone just on wifi. But at this point it’s prolly battery-smoldering under a pile of cables 😂.
 

MBAir2010

macrumors 604
May 30, 2018
6,975
6,354
there
what if someone did not use a mobile pocket phone from 2005 to 2022?
can they get more years out of their current phone?
happy I still use that iTouch G4 with battery runs on non-flammable fingerprint juice!
 

I7guy

macrumors Nehalem
Nov 30, 2013
35,165
25,297
Gotta be in it to win it
I have some old iPads I use for controlling sound equipment, makes no sense to get rid them when they do the job.

I would’ve expected Apple to ask for the phone to be sent in for investigation.

A battery should never catch fire.

I’m highly unimpressed by Apple’s apathy towards, what could’ve been, a deadly incident.
A for consumer battery other than li-ion shouldn’t catch fire. Well made li-ion batteries should have a lower risk of fire than shoddily made ones.

There is no reason apple should have to jump through hoops for a 7 year old battery that potentially was abused.
 
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clueless88

macrumors regular
Aug 23, 2020
249
153
Not sure if the problem is limited to old phones or older technology. Any item with a rechargeable lithium battery cannot be in the cargo bay of any passenger airplane--they can be taken with passengers as carryon items.

You can't ship phones or other items with lithium batteries via USPS Priority Mail, they have to go ground parcel post (there may be a provision in the regs regarding new phones, but typically the clerks will just shake their heads). FedEx can ship them because they have cargo planes and do not use passenger planes in their system.

Clearly someone in charge believes that rechargeable lithium batteries present a fire risk.
 

Andeddu

macrumors 68000
Dec 21, 2016
1,800
2,343
Not sure if the problem is limited to old phones or older technology. Any item with a rechargeable lithium battery cannot be in the cargo bay of any passenger airplane--they can be taken with passengers as carryon items.

You can't ship phones or other items with lithium batteries via USPS Priority Mail, they have to go ground parcel post (there may be a provision in the regs regarding new phones, but typically the clerks will just shake their heads). FedEx can ship them because they have cargo planes and do not use passenger planes in their system.

Clearly someone in charge believes that rechargeable lithium batteries present a fire risk.
There is a risk. The risk is minimal, however, so I am happy to have old phones and other technology in my home. Seems like the risk is also exponential when the device is plugged into a power source. I have no reason to believe an old battery that’s almost completely discharged in my cupboard presents any safety risk.
 

clueless88

macrumors regular
Aug 23, 2020
249
153
There is a risk. The risk is minimal, however, so I am happy to have old phones and other technology in my home. Seems like the risk is also exponential when the device is plugged into a power source. I have no reason to believe an old battery that’s almost completely discharged in my cupboard presents any safety risk.
I was just trying to point out that the Inside Edition fluff piece didn't look at all lithium battery devices and safety. Clearly there must have been some instances of rechargeable lithium batteries (most likely phones) igniting in the cargo holds of passenger planes in order for the ban to be proposed and imposed. It would follow logically that many of the devices were relatively new. If that is the case, then an older phone caught on camera exploding is really a non-story, albeit a dramatic video non-story.
 

1rottenapple

macrumors 601
Apr 21, 2004
4,759
2,774
As of recently, an iPhone 5 doesn't work with Xfinity Mobile (and the Verizon network it's on, I assume). So there's that.
They can happen to anything with a battery.

I would say I would be careful using sensitive apps exchanging passwords. I don’t know the likelihood of that happen but probably higher than an up to date OS.
 

janeauburn

macrumors 65816
Nov 22, 2015
1,315
2,234
The Air 5 is literally the latest model...

I will never update this Xʀ. If Apple forces me, I'll throw it into the bonfire myself.

iOS updates severely impact performance and obliterate battery life. I'd like a perfectly functioning device for a very long time, if possible. And it is possible! Never update and it will work correctly forever.

Like I said, the mere suggestion that because a device isn't updated it becomes completely useless and should be thrown away (!) is ridiculous.

A final clarifying paragraph: on the conspiracy theory thing, I don't know whether Apple does it on purpose or not, but frankly, it doesn't matter.
I mean that I don't know whether they could do more to alleviate issues or not. New features consume more battery and put more strain on the processor, which consumes more battery. Whether Apple can slightly alleviate the impact of that, I don't know. I'm inclined to side with Apple here, even: it's more possible that they optimise it the best they can than the opposite, but it doesn't matter. The end result is far worse than I'd like. So yeah, even though I'm more inclined to side with "there is nothing nefarious on purpose going on", it doesn't mean the impact isn't there. No conspiracy whatsoever.


What matters is the final result: Apple obliterates performance and battery life through updates, and I can do nothing to prevent that other than never update anything, regardless of whether it's the latest model (My Air 5 is the latest model and will remain on iPadOS 15), or an older device (my iPhone 6s is not supported anymore and will remain on iOS 10).

Well said.

Actually the iPhone 6 worked marvelously (and was marvelously thin and light) until Apple crippled it with iOS "updates" that added nothing really critical (except, for Apple, more ways to leech customers' money). The EU ultimately clamped down on this behavior, which led to Apple claiming it was related to old batteries (BS) and offering battery replacements for a time, but the clamping down came too late to salvage the perfectly lovely iPhone 6, which is now an unusable phone for anyone who was duped into installing the crippleware known as iOS updates.
 
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FeliApple

macrumors 68040
Apr 8, 2015
3,684
2,089
Well said.

Actually the iPhone 6 worked marvelously (and was marvelously thin and light) until Apple crippled it with iOS "updates" that added nothing really critical (except, for Apple, more ways to leech customers' money). The EU ultimately clamped down on this behavior, which led to Apple claiming it was related to old batteries (BS) and offering battery replacements for a time, but the clamping down came too late to salvage the perfectly lovely iPhone 6, which is now an unusable phone for anyone who was duped into installing the crippleware known as iOS updates.
The iPhone 6 case is an especially sad one. The device was RAM-starved from the beginning, especially the 6 Plus. Even back on iOS 8, when it was launched there was a firehose of complaints related to that. 1GB of RAM just isn’t enough for those screens, again, especially the 6 Plus. Not even the original iOS version was efficient enough to offset the lack of RAM. Performance complaints abounded, and even if Apple touted iOS 12 as a performance-enhancing update (and even if it was significantly better than the fiasco that was iOS 11), it is unusable.

The iPhone 6 especially: like I said, the Plus was RAM-starved from the beginning, but the regular 6 fared a lot better on iOS 8. iOS 12 shredded that, rendering the phone severely degraded at best, unusable at worst. That’s not to take away anything from this issue: if the 6 Plus was bad on iOS 8, it is completely worthless on iOS 12. As Apple won’t allow downgrading, the iPhone 6 especially went from a low-RAM device, yet a perfectly usable one, to a not-so-usable device... forever, because you can’t go back to iOS 8.

The battery excuse is pathetic: severely degraded batteries on iPhones with original iOS versions work flawlessly: That 6s on iOS 10 I mentioned earlier? 63% health, original battery. Not a single shutdown, not a single performance issue. Ever.
 

janeauburn

macrumors 65816
Nov 22, 2015
1,315
2,234
That’s not to take away anything from this issue: if the 6 Plus was bad on iOS 8, it is completely worthless on iOS 12. As Apple won’t allow downgrading, the iPhone 6 especially went from a low-RAM device, yet a perfectly usable one, to a not-so-usable device... forever, because you can’t go back to iOS 8.

I had no complaints about the performance of the 6 Plus on iOS 8. Maybe I wasn't a veteran multitasker at that time, but the phone never bugged me performance-wise. It started bugging me as soon as Apple released the iOS "updates" and crippled the 6 for virtually everyone. I still have the 6 Plus, and with iOS 12 (and a battery at 100%), it's too painful to use even as a single task device.

It can do phone calls, though. This is slightly off-topic, but phones after the 6 seemed not to have the phone call quality (for listeners to my voice) that the 6 had.
 

FeliApple

macrumors 68040
Apr 8, 2015
3,684
2,089
I had no complaints about the performance of the 6 Plus on iOS 8. Maybe I wasn't a veteran multitasker at that time, but the phone never bugged me performance-wise. It started bugging me as soon as Apple released the iOS "updates" and crippled the 6 for virtually everyone. I still have the 6 Plus, and with iOS 12 (and a battery at 100%), it's too painful to use even as a single task device.

It can do phone calls, though. This is slightly off-topic, but phones after the 6 seemed not to have the phone call quality (for listeners to my voice) that the 6 had.
I tested an iPhone 6 Plus on iOS 12, and yeah, it was unusable. Keep in mind I don’t update anything, so my performance standards are, honestly, extremely high, but it wasn’t good at all.

That’s interesting! My Xʀ is far better than my 6s on both ends. People heard you better on the 6? First time I heard that!
 
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retta283

Suspended
Jun 8, 2018
3,180
3,482
The battery excuse is pathetic: severely degraded batteries on iPhones with original iOS versions work flawlessly: That 6s on iOS 10 I mentioned earlier? 63% health, original battery. Not a single shutdown, not a single performance issue. Ever.
Interesting. Your experience is much different than mine. I likewise never update devices once they are bought, and I have a 6s on iOS 10 that has come down to 75% health and the battery has suffered immensely for the last 2 years already. I rarely leave data or Wifi on and use few apps, but it was becoming untenable with the battery life.

I upgraded that to an SE 2nd gen (got a bargain deal for a new device) that is on an iOS 15 version which will also remain there. Battery life was good until this month. At 96% health this thing just shreds my battery life when in standby and I cannot figure out the cause. I'm starting to get real ticked off though... Nothing has changed, I haven't installed a new app or anything since the spring.
 

FeliApple

macrumors 68040
Apr 8, 2015
3,684
2,089
Interesting. Your experience is much different than mine. I likewise never update devices once they are bought, and I have a 6s on iOS 10 that has come down to 75% health and the battery has suffered immensely for the last 2 years already. I rarely leave data or Wifi on and use few apps, but it was becoming untenable with the battery life.

I upgraded that to an SE 2nd gen (got a bargain deal for a new device) that is on an iOS 15 version which will also remain there. Battery life was good until this month. At 96% health this thing just shreds my battery life when in standby and I cannot figure out the cause. I'm starting to get real ticked off though... Nothing has changed, I haven't installed a new app or anything since the spring.
Interesting! That poor? Mine has far worse battery health and works well. It’s well optimised, however. I tweaked settings for maximum efficiency. The 6s has no standby drop at all, and whilst runtime isn’t like the newer iPhones, it is like it was on iOS 9 with a new battery. How bad is it? How’s screen-on time?

You mentioned that your SE2 has poor standby time. Unfortunately, it’s not your device only (which means that a solution might not be possible). I believe that started on iOS 11 or 12. I have an iPhone Xʀ running iOS 12, and standby has been awful since it was new. Original version, so updates aren’t at fault. Even while new on its original version, it was worse than my 6s on iOS 10 which is almost 7 years old! I assume Apple added some background task on iOS 12 that prompted the downfall, at least for iPhones. My 9.7-inch iPad Pro is also on iOS 12 (worth mentioning that Apple forced it out of iOS 9 due to the A9 activation bug on iOS 9) and standby time is like-new. I cannot explain the discrepancy.
 
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Andeddu

macrumors 68000
Dec 21, 2016
1,800
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Interesting! That poor? Mine has far worse battery health and works well. It’s well optimised, however. I tweaked settings for maximum efficiency. The 6s has no standby drop at all, and whilst runtime isn’t like the newer iPhones, it is like it was on iOS 9 with a new battery. How bad is it? How’s screen-on time?

You mentioned that your SE2 has poor standby time. Unfortunately, it’s not your device only (which means that a solution might not be possible). I believe that started on iOS 11 or 12. I have an iPhone Xʀ running iOS 12, and standby has been awful since it was new. Original version, so updates aren’t at fault. Even while new on its original version, it was worse than my 6s on iOS 10 which is almost 7 years old! I assume Apple added some background task on iOS 12 that prompted the downfall, at least for iPhones. My 9.7-inch iPad Pro is also on iOS 12 (worth mentioning that Apple forced it out of iOS 9 due to the A9 activation bug on iOS 9) and standby time is like-new. I cannot explain the discrepancy.
Battery degradation is a verifiable phenomenon and your battery on 63% health will not be able to hold a charge as it did on day 1 unless you have very few charge cycles on record. I also believe you have lucked out in the lithium-ion battery lottery with that unit as not all batteries are equal with some degrading much faster than others due to differing chemical compositions.
 

retta283

Suspended
Jun 8, 2018
3,180
3,482
The 6s has no standby drop at all, and whilst runtime isn’t like the newer iPhones, it is like it was on iOS 9 with a new battery. How bad is it? How’s screen-on time?
I will say that the standby time on the 6S has remained very good. I am giving rough figures because it has been a while since I used the device, but when watching locally synced video content I could see 3-4 hours before the device shut off. For texting I could see maybe 5-6 hours over a few days before needing recharged, again I'm just giving a rough figure on this one.

I was cursed by being stuck on iOS 10.1.1, so the device shuts down randomly once below 30%. I did find a little trick to help this, once it is plugged in it immediately restarts and you can make use of the remaining juice. I rigged up a cable that would jumpstart the device without needing real power, which got to be a major pain.

I had considered moving to one of my red iPhones, I have a 7 on 10.3.2 and an 8 on 11 something, but both are in mint condition and 100% battery health so I'm almost afraid to use them. This standby issue is really getting on my nerves though with the newer phone. I wonder how appreciable it is on a bigger iPhone with their much larger batteries, but I do not like spending a premium on such a device.
 
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FeliApple

macrumors 68040
Apr 8, 2015
3,684
2,089
Battery degradation is a verifiable phenomenon and your battery on 63% health will not be able to hold a charge as it did on day 1 unless you have very few charge cycles on record. I also believe you have lucked out in the lithium-ion battery lottery with that unit as not all batteries are equal with some degrading much faster than others due to differing chemical compositions.
It dropped a little in terms of screen-on time (like I said, half an hour, negligible), but it’s perfect on standby time. It just doesn’t drop. It’s why I called it like-new: half an hour isn’t significant enough for me to say it dropped, and standby time is perfect.

The 6s has 1400 cycles, it was used, quite heavily. It has been on iOS 10.0 since I got it.

I’m not disputing the chemistry, I’m disputing its impact on runtime.
 

FeliApple

macrumors 68040
Apr 8, 2015
3,684
2,089
I will say that the standby time on the 6S has remained very good. I am giving rough figures because it has been a while since I used the device, but when watching locally synced video content I could see 3-4 hours before the device shut off. For texting I could see maybe 5-6 hours over a few days before needing recharged, again I'm just giving a rough figure on this one.

I was cursed by being stuck on iOS 10.1.1, so the device shuts down randomly once below 30%. I did find a little trick to help this, once it is plugged in it immediately restarts and you can make use of the remaining juice. I rigged up a cable that would jumpstart the device without needing real power, which got to be a major pain.

I had considered moving to one of my red iPhones, I have a 7 on 10.3.2 and an 8 on 11 something, but both are in mint condition and 100% battery health so I'm almost afraid to use them. This standby issue is really getting on my nerves though with the newer phone. I wonder how appreciable it is on a bigger iPhone with their much larger batteries, but I do not like spending a premium on such a device.
No way, you have an iPhone 7 on iOS 10! I used a 7 Plus on iOS 10 but its hardware was broken so I traded it in to Apple for my Xʀ. That’s pretty cool! I should have kept that 7 Plus, I regret the trade-in. The 7 on iOS 10 is amazing! The 8 is great too! I think it was the only device which wasn’t affected by iOS 11’s battery life fiasco (it was a disaster for everything without an A11 Bionic). So it should be outstanding, too!

Honestly, I have a Xʀ on iOS 12 and it’s pretty bad as well. I don’t think a large iPhone would make a huge difference. It should, but it doesn’t in practice. It’s another little thing in which the practice doesn’t align with the theory.

I wonder how’s the 8’s standby, though. I’m sure iOS 10 isn’t to blame, but I don’t know whether the culprit of the beginning of the standby issue is iOS 11 or iOS 12. Do you know, by any chance? Maybe we can determine whether the issue started on iOS 11 or if it did on iOS 12.

I’ve used the 6s below 30% and it doesn’t shut down, ever. That’s odd, too!
 
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Andeddu

macrumors 68000
Dec 21, 2016
1,800
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It dropped a little in terms of screen-on time (like I said, half an hour, negligible), but it’s perfect on standby time. It just doesn’t drop. It’s why I called it like-new: half an hour isn’t significant enough for me to say it dropped, and standby time is perfect.

The 6s has 1400 cycles, it was used, quite heavily. It has been on iOS 10.0 since I got it.

I’m not disputing the chemistry, I’m disputing its impact on runtime.
I am not disputing your personal experience, I just don’t believe that it’s indicative of the average person’s experience with an older battery. The battery you have in your 6S could be a top 0.1% performer and a complete aberration.

I would be interested in your numbers running purely streamed video on LTE over one charge though.
 

retta283

Suspended
Jun 8, 2018
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I wonder how’s the 8’s standby, though. I’m sure iOS 10 isn’t to blame, but I don’t know whether the culprit of the beginning of the standby issue is iOS 11 or iOS 12. Do you know, by any chance? Maybe we can determine whether the issue started on iOS 11 or if it did on iOS 12.

I’ve used the 6s below 30% and it doesn’t shut down, ever. That’s odd, too!
For what it's worth, when I have used the 8 as a backup alarm clock I never noticed any standby drain on iOS 11. I have not used it for much else other than that.

The issue with the 6s shutting down is due to a bug in 10.1.1. It is 10.2 that introduces the "peak performance" thing where it throttles down, which was done in response to the bug in 10.1.1, but obviously this was not made public. I just happened to be unlucky enough to find this device on the affected version.
 
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FeliApple

macrumors 68040
Apr 8, 2015
3,684
2,089
I am not disputing your personal experience, I just don’t believe that it’s indicative of the average person’s experience with an older battery. The battery you have in your 6S could be a top 0.1% performer and a complete aberration.

I would be interested in your numbers running purely streamed video on LTE over one charge though.
It’s a shame that we don‘t have a huge pool of users to draw data from. There aren’t many people with non-updated devices with degraded batteries at all, let alone ones we can find, let alone ones with early enough versions to draw conclusions from. I’ve found two people here with a 6s on iOS 10. There are more, probably, but they aren’t easy to find, because there aren’t many.

That’s a little difficult for me to try because an LTE streaming test will use up all of my data, but I’ve tested it on the 6s on Wi-Fi (and on my iPads) and streaming video with the most used apps (Netflix and Amazon Prime Video) doesn’t seem to be any heavier than mixed usage. I get the same battery life I get while web browsing. That happens on both 9.7-inch iPad Pro on iOS 12, and on my iPad Air 5. As well as the 6s. So if that’s correct… maybe 6.5 hours of LTE streaming? 6 hours? I doubt it’s much worse than that. I will admit that I haven’t tried it, though, I’m only speculating.
 

FeliApple

macrumors 68040
Apr 8, 2015
3,684
2,089
For what it's worth, when I have used the 8 as a backup alarm clock I never noticed any standby drain on iOS 11. I have not used it for much else other than that.

The issue with the 6s shutting down is due to a bug in 10.1.1. It is 10.2 that introduces the "peak performance" thing where it throttles down, which was done in response to the bug in 10.1.1, but obviously this was not made public. I just happened to be unlucky enough to find this device on the affected version.
Cool, maybe it’s iOS 12 then.

Throttling was introduced on iOS 10.2.1, so the bug was present since at least iOS 10.1.1? I don’t know if it was present earlier, don’t remember when people started to complain about it.
 
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