Apple Says Vision Pro Could Be Used for Surgeries, Technical Training and More

[smulji]

Like what? What problems in the current computing world does it solve? What hurdles is Vision Pro overcoming that are holding us all back?

Multiple big displays is not an answer because I can get projectors for $50 apiece that solve that problem nearly as well for orders of magnitude less money.

Agreed.

"In the end, as far as I can tell, the Vision Pro doesn’t do anything I want enough better than the devices and peripherals I currently have to be worth $4000."

Apple Vision Pro Arrives 2 February 2024 - TidBITS

Apple has announced that pre-orders for its Vision Pro “spatial computer” will open on 19 January 2024, with the headset shipping two weeks later. Will you be ordering one?

tidbits.com

 

[smulji]

I think the "problem" here is many people invest a huge chunk of their time trying to come up with reasons why a new Apple product (iPod, iPhone, iPad, Watch, AirPods, etc) will flop.

Disagree. Every major product success Apple's had (at least as far as I can tell) has had a legit narrative around it, a reason for its existence. It was well articulated and easy to understand. With the Mac, it was "hub for your digital life". For iPod, it was "1000 songs in your pocket". For iPhone, it was "internet in your pocket". For iPad, it's a device that sits between the iPhone and Mac and better than them at 7 key tasks. What's the narrative and reason to exist for Vision Pro?

 

[eicca]

How would you even know that? It’s not even released yet (just). Just because it’s not for you, it doesn’t mean it won’t be a game changer. Everyone… I’ll repeat that… EVERYONE who has actually used it says it’s a game changer. But you’d know better, right?

Remember the part where Apple is curating reviews?

Ask the people around you. Ask your parents. Me and everyone I know went “HOLY CRAP THATS AMAZING” when iPhone, iPod, iPad, Apple Silicon, to name a few, came out because it was immediately obvious how they changed the game.

Comparatively, me and everyone I talk to, despite all the looking we’ve done into the Vision Pro, see no ways in which it actually solves computing problems for us.

Because it in reality doesn’t solve any problems.

Look up Clayton Christensen’s “Jobs to be Done” principles of product design and it becomes very very obvious why Vision Pro is just a glitzy toy with almost zero actual productivity value.

 

[eicca]

One more time, as I've said many times here, being able to simply create multiple virtual large displays in your living room for computing is NOT AR. AR is not limited to solving problems in the computing world, or to provide entertainment. It's a tool.

An example of AR, as I've said in the past here, would be a home/building architect being able to take a client on a walkthrough of home design he/she created for the purpose of securing their approval. The client and architect would be able to go through the home "walking" into each room, looking around (and up and down) while sitting in the architect's office.

The same could apply to a couple reviewing and approving a landscape design with a landscape architect. And also apply to an interior decorator with clients checking out and approving furniture/carpet/lighting/paint choices with a client, and making on the spot changes, as needed.

AR can and is used for industrial plant inspections, being able to call up documents and operating instructions while doing the inspection.

I've also mentioned that AR is used, in general (not suggesting that will be the case with AVP), in multiple types of surgical procedures, such as cardiothroracic surgery. But from a recent story in MR, apparently that's something Apple may be thinking about.

Auto insurance adjusters can used AR for quickly and accurately accessing auto damage for the purpose of producing a repair estimate.

The possibilities go on and on. The above is a small sample of how AR can be used.

Over the last 2-3 years I've listed a dozen or two other examples of how AR can help solve problems in multiple disciplines. If you care to take the time of doing a little of your own research you will be able to come up with your own. Go for it!

You are right, AR CAN be used for those things, but nobody is going to pay $3500 to do those things.

Nobody is going to use AR to do anything until it becomes as simple as putting on a pair of glasses, and maybe not even then because you can get almost as much information out of readily-available computing devices.

It’s not really solving a problem. It’s just doing cool tricks.

 

[eicca]

It’s not just floating 2D windows. How many $50 projectors will it take to accomplish something like this:

JigSpace is in the driver’s seat - Discover - Apple Developer

The company is leaning on the new platform to create avenues of creativity and collaboration never before possible.

developer.apple.com

What problem is that solving for the vast majority of computation users?

The vast majority of computation users will think that’s pretty cool and probably never use it again.

Cool tricks aren’t revolutionary. Revolutionary solutions to problems and needs are revolutionary.

 

[ThaGoochiestMane]

How do you know?

It was being reported on many of the Windows/Microsoft sites after Kipman got canned, as well as a few other outlets.

Microsoft Cancels HoloLens 3 Headset, Reports Say - XR Today

XR Today reports on the latest extended reality news from around the globe, including virtual reality, augmented reality and mixed reality.

www.xrtoday.com

https://www.wsj.com/articles/micros...for-talent-to-build-the-metaverse-11641819601 (paywalled)

https://www.geekwire.com/2023/apple-vs-microsoft-vision-pro-hololens-and-a-familiar-pattern-in-a-classic-tech-rivalry/

 

[farmboy]

What problem is that solving for the vast majority of computation users?

The vast majority of computation users will think that’s pretty cool and probably never use it again.

Cool tricks aren’t revolutionary. Revolutionary solutions to problems and needs are revolutionary.

The problem with your opinion is that you think it must be something that solves problems "for the vast majority of computation users." That's clearly not the intent of the product.

I'm not interested in it, but I can certainly see the application in many other uses, and I'm not out here naysaying the AVP just because it's not for me.

 

[eicca]

The problem with your opinion is that you think it must be something that solves problems "for the vast majority of computation users." That's clearly not the intent of the product.

I'm not interested in it, but I can certainly see the application in many other uses, and I'm not out here naysaying the AVP just because it's not for me.

What is the intent of this product then?

Even Apple haven’t given a clear intent of this product other than to try and make “better VR” whatever that means.

If a product isn’t solving a problem it’s pointless.

Look up Clayton Christensen, from Harvard Business, and the “jobs to be done” principle of product design. It’s world-changing, and makes it very clear that Vision Pro is nothing more than a toy.

 

[citysnaps]

You are right, AR CAN be used for those things, but nobody is going to pay $3500 to do those things.

Nobody is going to use AR to do anything until it becomes as simple as putting on a pair of glasses, and maybe not even then because you can get almost as much information out of readily-available computing devices.

It’s not really solving a problem. It’s just doing cool tricks.

Seriously? One would have thought that would have been obvious.

"It’s not really solving a problem. It’s just doing cool tricks."

It's OK to flex your imagination a little. Give it a try sometime.

 

[Ghost31]

If only those companies didn’t waste time and resources disabling the apps that were already compatible to spite Apple and antagonize subscribers.

Now you’ll just have to use Safari to watch Netflix, YouTube, and listen to Spotify.

It doesn’t give me a ton of hope for development early on when I can’t even have something as basic as YouTube

 

[tennisproha]

According to Bloomberg, two employees under Rockwell are responsible for discovering new applications for the Vision Pro. One is exploring enterprise uses for the device, while the other is looking into potential education opportunities.

Wow just two employees lol. Wonder how many are responsible for fixing bugs, maybe it’s the interns

 

[steve09090]

What is the intent of this product then?

Even Apple haven’t given a clear intent of this product other than to try and make “better VR” whatever that means.

If a product isn’t solving a problem it’s pointless.

Look up Clayton Christensen, from Harvard Business, and the “jobs to be done” principle of product design. It’s world-changing, and makes it very clear that Vision Pro is nothing more than a toy.

Looking up the internet wasn’t a problem before the iPhone. The Sony Walkman was fantastic too, until Apple started iTunes and then people thought 'wow' when they had 1000 songs in their pocket. Neither were problems that needed fixing. The beauty of Apple is they find a way to change the way we do things, even though we didn’t realise.

People develop workflows based on what they have available. Apple develop what there is available to improve workflows. There is a reason marketing came up with the slogan, 'Think Different'. It was a part of Apples DNA.

Think about it. Or don’t...

 

[steve09090]

It doesn’t give me a ton of hope for development early on when I can’t even have something as basic as YouTube

What makes you think YouTube is the sole purpose of this? Did you not even read the article?

 

[eicca]

Seriously? One would have thought that would have been obvious.

"It’s not really solving a problem. It’s just doing cool tricks."

It's OK to flex your imagination a little. Give it a try sometime.

Alright, if you’re so imaginative, here’s a test:

iPod: 1,000+ songs in your pocket

iPhone: your iPod, camera, calculator, mini-computation all-in-one machine

Apple Silicon: way more computing power with way less draw and less heat

Vision Pro: _______________

(Hint: it does nothing new but make apps float around in a severely-limited OS, secludes you from social settings, weighs a ton, and costs more than my first car.)

Tell me what the Vision Pro is actually solving.

Nobody really can because the answer is nothing.

 

[citysnaps]

Alright, if you’re so imaginative, here’s a test:

iPod: 1,000+ songs in your pocket

iPhone: your iPod, camera, calculator, mini-computation all-in-one machine

Apple Silicon: way more computing power with way less draw and less heat

Vision Pro: _______________

(Hint: it does nothing new but make apps float around in a severely-limited OS, secludes you from social settings, weighs a ton, and costs more than my first car.)

Tell me what the Vision Pro is actually solving.

Nobody really can because the answer is nothing.

I'm getting tired of doing this...

Vision Pro: _______________

With respect to AR, there are literally dozens and dozens of applications - it's just a matter of the apps being developed and released. Here's a couple.

An architect can use AVPs to do realistic walk-throughs of home or building designs with clients, where the client can feel like they're actually walking through the home. All while sitting in the architect's office. With the goal of the client ultimately approving the architect's design, or making changes the client needs.

A landscape architect can do the same thing around the exterior of a home or building; with the client approving/choosing trees, mounds, plants, hardscape, etc.

An interior decorator can do the same thing with clients walking through a home and seeing furniture/carpet/lighting/art/etc choices, and being able to make alternate choices in realtime while sitting in the interior decorator's office.

An industrial plant inspector/troubleshooter doing a plant inspection can use an AR device to help in doing inspection, being able to instantly call up documents/specifications/charts etc.

An auto insurance claims adjuster can assess the damage of a customer's car and be able to quickly come up with a repair estimate.

AVP can be used in multiple training disciplines from human surgery to flying fighter aircraft - and many things in between.

An AVP owner could be able to virtually try on clothes from different stores from the comfort of their home/couch.

An automobile customer can "take out and drive" a new "car" from the comfort of their home using an AR device, and drive it around to see if it would be a good purchase.

I could run the San Francisco Marathon with 20,000 other runners. From my couch, and it would feel realistic.

I could explore the caves in Lascaux, France and look around at the paintings on cave walls that go back 20,000 years, and instantly summon up information about each of the pre-historic paintings.

I can take a tour of the Louvre, along with other people, enjoying viewing the art on the museum's walls, and being able to instantly summon up loads of information about each painting. All from my living room in California.

I can learn how to play piano (or another instrument).

The list of potential uses goes on and on - I'm getting tired of typing. It's just a matter of the software being developed. Which I'm sure Apple's trusted developers have been and are working on right now.



"Tell me what the Vision Pro is actually solving.
Nobody really can because the answer is nothing."

"Hint: it does nothing new but make apps float around in a severely-limited OS, secludes you from social settings, weighs a ton, and costs more than my first car.)"

Okie dokey.

 

[eicca]

I'm getting tired of doing this...

Vision Pro: _______________

With respect to AR, there are literally dozens and dozens of applications - it's just a matter of the apps being developed and released. Here's a couple.

An architect can use AVPs to do realistic walk-throughs of home or building designs with clients, where the client can feel like they're actually walking through the home. All while sitting in the architect's office. With the goal of the client ultimately approving the architect's design, or making changes the client needs.

A landscape architect can do the same thing around the exterior of a home or building; with the client approving/choosing trees, mounds, plants, hardscape, etc.

An interior decorator can do the same thing with clients walking through a home and seeing furniture/carpet/lighting/art/etc choices, and being able to make alternate choices in realtime while sitting in the interior decorator's office.

An industrial plant inspector/troubleshooter doing a plant inspection can use an AR device to help in doing inspection, being able to instantly call up documents/specifications/charts etc.

An auto insurance claims adjuster can assess the damage of a customer's car and be able to quickly come up with a repair estimate.

AVP can be used in multiple training disciplines from human surgery to flying fighter aircraft - and many things in between.

An AVP owner could be able to virtually try on clothes from different stores from the comfort of their home/couch.

An automobile customer can "take out and drive" a new "car" from the comfort of their home using an AR device, and drive it around to see if it would be a good purchase.

I could run the San Francisco Marathon with 20,000 other runners. From my couch, and it would feel realistic.

I could explore the caves in Lascaux, France and look around at the paintings on cave walls that go back 20,000 years, and instantly summon up information about each of the pre-historic paintings.

I can take a tour of the Louvre, along with other people, enjoying viewing the art on the museum's walls, and being able to instantly summon up loads of information about each painting. All from my living room in California.

I can learn how to play piano (or another instrument).

The list of potential uses goes on and on - I'm getting tired of typing. It's just a matter of the software being developed. Which I'm sure Apple's trusted developers have been and are working on right now.



"Tell me what the Vision Pro is actually solving.
Nobody really can because the answer is nothing."

"Hint: it does nothing new but make apps float around in a severely-limited OS, secludes you from social settings, weighs a ton, and costs more than my first car.)"

Okie dokey.

Only like two of those are viable uses, for a microscopic subset of users. The rest are more than viable on existing hardware or too ludicrous to even consider doing in VR.

No freaking way in hell can anyone get an idea of product testing through a Vision Pro. That’s the most hilariously bad take I’ve ever heard. It’s straight-up impossible to tell what a car is like in VR. Impossible. Ever driven one? There’s so much tactile information from the machine itself and from just interacting with the physical aspects of the interior.

You aren’t learning piano on a Vision Pro. Your muscle coordination will never transfer to a physical instrument.

A screen will portray virtual art just as good as the Vision Pro. You ain’t getting any experience in a fake world.

All this tells me is anyone who thinks that VR is a sufficient substitute for reality needs to get out and enjoy reality more cuz it ain’t even close. Nothing substitutes reality.

 

[citysnaps]

Only like two of those are viable uses, for a microscopic subset of users. The rest are more than viable on existing hardware or too ludicrous to even consider doing in VR.

No freaking way in hell can anyone get an idea of product testing through a Vision Pro. That’s the most hilariously bad take I’ve ever heard. It’s straight-up impossible to tell what a car is like in VR. Impossible. Ever driven one? There’s so much tactile information from the machine itself and from just interacting with the physical aspects of the interior.

You aren’t learning piano on a Vision Pro. Your muscle coordination will never transfer to a physical instrument.

A screen will portray virtual art just as good as the Vision Pro. You ain’t getting any experience in a fake world.

All this tells me is anyone who thinks that VR is a sufficient substitute for reality needs to get out and enjoy reality more cuz it ain’t even close. Nothing substitutes reality.

The above are mostly AR applications. And the experience in many of them is immersive (look that word up if you need to).

But, OK, you're the expert.

I have you marked down as proclaiming AVP will be a flop.

Thank you.

 

[steve09090]

Only like two of those are viable uses, for a microscopic subset of users. The rest are more than viable on existing hardware or too ludicrous to even consider doing in VR.

No freaking way in hell can anyone get an idea of product testing through a Vision Pro. That’s the most hilariously bad take I’ve ever heard. It’s straight-up impossible to tell what a car is like in VR. Impossible. Ever driven one? There’s so much tactile information from the machine itself and from just interacting with the physical aspects of the interior.

You aren’t learning piano on a Vision Pro. Your muscle coordination will never transfer to a physical instrument.

A screen will portray virtual art just as good as the Vision Pro. You ain’t getting any experience in a fake world.

All this tells me is anyone who thinks that VR is a sufficient substitute for reality needs to get out and enjoy reality more cuz it ain’t even close. Nothing substitutes reality.

We get that you think AVP is a flop. Guess what, you’re not the market.

You’re right that nothing substitutes reality…. Except for things where things aren’t in the real world! You can’t teleport to Paris or Mumbai but you can directly speak to someone and be shown objects that are augmented in the real space from or even to those locations. In real time.

Have you ever used a Cello Boy on a guitar? Ever heard it? Completely different sound and experience. But that’s real.. You may not learn the piano, but you may have a different type of instrument being developed. Can you imagine that? No? Okay… moving on.

The point is, you are only restricted by imagination from people who can think outside the box.

You're not the market because you refuse to believe in doing things in a different way. Welcome to life after the 1950’s!

 

[eicca]

The above are mostly AR applications. And the experience in many of them is immersive (look that word up if you need to).

But, OK, you're the expert.

I have you marked down as proclaiming AVP will be a flop.

Thank you.

Immersive is a buzzword for a society that hates reality.

I’ve lived in enough of it to know.

I expect you will mail me a trophy when the flop happens.

 

[eicca]

We get that you think AVP is a flop. Guess what, you’re not the market.

You’re right that nothing substitutes reality…. Except for things where things aren’t in the real world! You can’t teleport to Paris or Mumbai but you can directly speak to someone and be shown objects that are augmented in the real space from or even to those locations. In real time.

Have you ever used a Cello Boy on a guitar? Ever heard it? Completely different sound and experience. But that’s real.. You may not learn the piano, but you may have a different type of instrument being developed. Can you imagine that? No? Okay… moving on.

The point is, you are only restricted by imagination from people who can think outside the box.

You're not the market because you refuse to believe in doing things in a different way. Welcome to life after the 1950’s!

So then why has Meta been trying to shove this bullcrap down our throats for years and yet everybody is completely ignoring it? I don’t see anyone jumping to their defense. But if the Almighty Apple says it’s the future then it must be, despite all the utterly asinine decisions they continue to make over and over and over.

 

[citysnaps]

So then why has Meta been trying to shove this bullcrap down our throats for years and yet everybody is completely ignoring it? I don’t see anyone jumping to their defense. But if the Almighty Apple says it’s the future then it must be, despite all the utterly asinine decisions they continue to make over and over and over.

Probably because Meta is a social media company with a zero track record developing any interesting and useful tech. Though I'm sure Meta's device is fun to play with.

I'm expecting a lot more from Apple. Especially in fostering interesting apps, both internally and externally developed. And future versions of AVP being improved every year. All based on Apple's track record of success.

 

[eicca]

Probably because Meta is a social media company with a zero track record developing any interesting and useful tech. Though I'm sure Meta's device is fun to play with.

I'm expecting a lot more from Apple. Especially in fostering interesting apps, both internally and externally developed. And future versions of AVP being improved every year. All based on Apple's track record of success.

Here’s the crucial thing everyone who tries to apologize for this catastrophe is missing: Apple products are so great because they seamlessly integrate into our lives.

Vision Pro (and VR headsets in general) is the exact opposite of that. So unbelievably intrusive for so little gain if any.

IF, big IF they had managed to make this just a pair of glasses like the Asus thing, it might have a chance.

 

[citysnaps]

Here’s the crucial thing everyone who tries to apologize for this catastrophe is missing: Apple products are so great because they seamlessly integrate into our lives.

Vision Pro (and VR headsets in general) is the exact opposite of that. So unbelievably intrusive for so little gain if any.

IF, big IF they had managed to make this just a pair of glasses like the Asus thing, it might have a chance.

Got it. You proclaim AVP a flop (like iPod/iPhone/iPad/Watch/AirPods were declared flops by many here).

I choose to believe the potential and possibilities are wide open for Apple and developers.

For sure we'll revisit this thread in a year.

 

[steve09090]

Here’s the crucial thing everyone who tries to apologize for this catastrophe is missing: Apple products are so great because they seamlessly integrate into our lives.

Vision Pro (and VR headsets in general) is the exact opposite of that. So unbelievably intrusive for so little gain if any.

IF, big IF they had managed to make this just a pair of glasses like the Asus thing, it might have a chance.

Maybe you should try one before you claim you know ALL about it. Did you not see the integration with other Apple devices? Geez…

Anyway… you apparently don't Like Apple, and everything they do is rubbish (despite being the most popular Watch, the most popular phone, the most complete ecosystem in tech). So maybe we should leave it at that. I have wasted too much time on people who can’t be bothered to actually research the product because deeming it a failure.

btw, ASUS Spacial Glasses (AirVision M1) are a concept. Not a real product. They don’t exist. Remember the word research.

 

[eicca]

Maybe you should try one before you claim you know ALL about it. Did you not see the integration with other Apple devices? Geez…

Anyway… you apparently don't Like Apple, and everything they do is rubbish (despite being the most popular Watch, the most popular phone, the most complete ecosystem in tech). So maybe we should leave it at that. I have wasted too much time on people who can’t be bothered to actually research the product because deeming it a failure.

btw, ASUS Spacial Glasses (AirVision M1) are a concept. Not a real product. They don’t exist. Remember the word research.

Read my post again. I said nothing about integration with other Apple devices. I said integration with our LIVES. Very different, and the reason Vision Pro is an atrocity.