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leman

macrumors Core
Oct 14, 2008
19,520
19,670
Also, bfloat16 support on the GPU! I doubt it comes with improved performance though...
 
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Xiao_Xi

macrumors 68000
Oct 27, 2021
1,627
1,101
Also, bfloat16 support on the GPU! I doubt it comes with improved performance though...
Good catch! From the Metal Shading Language Specification:
1686057414410.png


Is this another case like the ray-tracing API where Apple has built software support before hardware support?
 

Xiao_Xi

macrumors 68000
Oct 27, 2021
1,627
1,101
Apple seems to have put a lot of effort into improving support for ML frames in macOS.

Tensorflow Metal API is 1.0, but Apple didn't bother to write a proper changelog, as usual. The session on ML frameworks highlights grappler pass optimizations, mixed accuracy and simplified installation.

Although Pytorch MPS backend is still in beta, it is now much faster.
1686258814350.png

 
Last edited:

dgdosen

macrumors 68030
Dec 13, 2003
2,817
1,463
Seattle
Post WWDC, Apple execs (and influencers close to Apple) are saying that Apple Silicon isn't in the AI training game. Go do it in the cloud. Which, I think, is consistent with thoughts on this thread.

However, wrt LLMs, what about needs for inference, fine tuning, or even extending models with plugins - like the retrieval plugin? Is Apple ceding those 'non-cloud' tasks to be best performed on workstations from other vendors?

I ask this having not watched any of this year's WWDC content.
 

senttoschool

macrumors 68030
Original poster
Nov 2, 2017
2,626
5,482
Post WWDC, Apple execs (and influencers close to Apple) are saying that Apple Silicon isn't in the AI training game. Go do it in the cloud. Which, I think, is consistent with thoughts on this thread.

However, wrt LLMs, what about needs for inference, fine tuning, or even extending models with plugins - like the retrieval plugin? Is Apple ceding those 'non-cloud' tasks to be best performed on workstations from other vendors?

I ask this having not watched any of this year's WWDC content.
It makes a ton of sense for Apple to cede the training market. Apple has no advantage there. Nvidia has solutions connecting thousands of CPUs and GPUs together. Apple can't compete.

But I think Apple is serious about inference and they've clearly signaled that they are - both doing inference for their own AI apps and providing patches for inference via Tensorflow/Pytorch.

I basically think that by M5 or M6, Apple Silicon will basically be a giant Neural Engine with a CPU and GPU attached to it. Today, it's the other way around.
 

Numa_Numa_eh

Suspended
Jun 1, 2023
87
105
WWDC updates to CoreML for StableDiffusion.

Device--compute-unit--attention-implementationEnd-to-End Latency (s)Diffusion Speed (iter/s)
iPhone 12 MiniCPU_AND_NESPLIT_EINSUM_V2201.3
iPhone 12 Pro MaxCPU_AND_NESPLIT_EINSUM_V2171.4
iPhone 13CPU_AND_NESPLIT_EINSUM_V2151.7
iPhone 13 Pro MaxCPU_AND_NESPLIT_EINSUM_V2121.8
iPhone 14CPU_AND_NESPLIT_EINSUM_V2131.8
iPhone 14 Pro MaxCPU_AND_NESPLIT_EINSUM_V292.3
iPad Pro (M1)CPU_AND_NESPLIT_EINSUM_V2112.1
iPad Pro (M2)CPU_AND_NESPLIT_EINSUM_V282.9
Mac Studio (M1 Ultra)CPU_AND_GPUORIGINAL46.3
Mac Studio (M2 Ultra)CPU_AND_GPUORIGINAL37.6

 

name99

macrumors 68020
Jun 21, 2004
2,407
2,309
Post WWDC, Apple execs (and influencers close to Apple) are saying that Apple Silicon isn't in the AI training game. Go do it in the cloud. Which, I think, is consistent with thoughts on this thread.

However, wrt LLMs, what about needs for inference, fine tuning, or even extending models with plugins - like the retrieval plugin? Is Apple ceding those 'non-cloud' tasks to be best performed on workstations from other vendors?

I ask this having not watched any of this year's WWDC content.
I think Apple means exactly what they said – they're not in the "starting from scratch, using 1000 GPU's" training game. That does not mean they're not interested in the examples you gave like fine tuning.

For example:
- They're using an LLM for the keyboard (and various other things). This will presumably be fined tuned as you type to match your particular language usage.
- They're offering personalized synthetic voices. Right now these are low-ish quality, and intended for people who have difficulty speaking. But at some point this will probably change.

Basically use common sense! If a task is being done on a rack of H-100s, it's not a task Apple thinks should (for now...) be done on a Mac. Otherwise...
 

Numa_Numa_eh

Suspended
Jun 1, 2023
87
105
I think Apple means exactly what they said – they're not in the "starting from scratch, using 1000 GPU's" training game. That does not mean they're not interested in the examples you gave like fine tuning.

For example:
- They're using an LLM for the keyboard (and various other things). This will presumably be fined tuned as you type to match your particular language usage.
- They're offering personalized synthetic voices. Right now these are low-ish quality, and intended for people who have difficulty speaking. But at some point this will probably change.

Basically use common sense! If a task is being done on a rack of H-100s, it's not a task Apple thinks should (for now...) be done on a Mac. Otherwise...
Indeed, it's too early to say what will happen in this field. We'll see if the multiple powerful gpus stays the main way to train, or if another way is found. I also believe Apple hasn't given up on the training game, briefly mentioned in the WWDC Keynote:

11:30: “...And M2 Ultra can support an enormous 192 GB of unified memory, which is 50% more than M1 Ultra, enabling it to do things other chips just can’t do. For example, in a single system, it can train massive ML workloads, like large transformer models..."
 
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